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12/08/11, 01:21 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle GA
Posts: 16,654
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There have been times in my life that I could not have afforded to pay a fee for protection. I guess I was blessed that we have a volunteer fire department that were really volunteers and took helping people seriously.
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12/08/11, 01:29 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: W Mo
Posts: 9,268
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Much as anyone hates to see a family lose everything, those fire fighters are not villians. They were put into a very bad situation and I bet if they were interviewed they would tell you how much it hurt them to NOT put that fire out.
As much as we all like to feel warm and fuzzy and even self-rightous about it, the cold hard fact is it takes money to run a fire department, even if the firefighters are unpaid volunteers. A lot of money. Equipment is EXTREMELY expensive, and if nobody pays for it you would get to the point where there is no fire protection for anybody, period.
My son is a volunteer firefighter and he puts in a lot of time and risks his own safety to help his community and doesn't get a dime. They do have good equipment; they get their funding from the tax base in the town or county, and they do fund raisers. Last year, they purchased their first brand new full size fire truck their department has ever had. It cost over $250,000. A quarter of a million. For one truck. And that doesn't include the jaws of life and all the other expensive equipment it needs on board to be effective. So know that fire departments need money whether the fire fighters get paid or not. No money=no fire protection, and the neighbors can form a bucket brigade like the old days I guess.
I think what really needs to happen is changing the system in this town from individual payments to a sales tax, or portion of property taxes, to pay for their fire protection. With two recent events like this, you sure would think the voters would pass it.
__________________
It is still best to be honest and truthful; to make the most of what we have; to be happy with the simple pleasures and to be cheerful and have courage when things go wrong.
Laura Ingalls Wilder
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12/08/11, 03:19 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle GA
Posts: 16,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MO_cows
Much as anyone hates to see a family lose everything, those fire fighters are not villians. They were put into a very bad situation and I bet if they were interviewed they would tell you how much it hurt them to NOT put that fire out.
As much as we all like to feel warm and fuzzy and even self-rightous about it, the cold hard fact is it takes money to run a fire department, even if the firefighters are unpaid volunteers. A lot of money. Equipment is EXTREMELY expensive, and if nobody pays for it you would get to the point where there is no fire protection for anybody, period.
My son is a volunteer firefighter and he puts in a lot of time and risks his own safety to help his community and doesn't get a dime. They do have good equipment; they get their funding from the tax base in the town or county, and they do fund raisers. Last year, they purchased their first brand new full size fire truck their department has ever had. It cost over $250,000. A quarter of a million. For one truck. And that doesn't include the jaws of life and all the other expensive equipment it needs on board to be effective. So know that fire departments need money whether the fire fighters get paid or not. No money=no fire protection, and the neighbors can form a bucket brigade like the old days I guess.
I think what really needs to happen is changing the system in this town from individual payments to a sales tax, or portion of property taxes, to pay for their fire protection. With two recent events like this, you sure would think the voters would pass it.
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I have the utmost respect for firemen, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around anyone standing and watching someone's home burn without trying to put out the fire. They went to the fire, why just stand and watch? I guess that's what gets to me. If they weren't going to do anything, why take the gas to drive over to the fire. To me it seems like a mockery. And the one that happened last year, if I'm not mistaken, cost the life of a beloved pet. Some may say it doesn't matter, but to me it does.
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12/08/11, 03:32 PM
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 5,694
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonshine
I have the utmost respect for firemen, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around anyone standing and watching someone's home burn without trying to put out the fire. They went to the fire, why just stand and watch? I guess that's what gets to me. If they weren't going to do anything, why take the gas to drive over to the fire. To me it seems like a mockery. And the one that happened last year, if I'm not mistaken, cost the life of a beloved pet. Some may say it doesn't matter, but to me it does.
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They had to go to the fire to make sure that there was no loss of life...They were not willing to risk their own lives to save mere possessions that the owners weren't willing to pay to protect. If someone had been inside the trailer, I'm sure that they would have gone in looking for them.
I am so sorry for your loss, Sonshine. For what it is worth, I do understand your stance on this. My mom would have similar feelings to yours due to having experienced fires in her past. She was so affected by first witnessing a house fire and later having her apartment burn when my dad was deployed during the Korean War. Mom never allowed a woodburning stove to be installed despite the savings on heating oil, nor did we ever barbecue or have a bonfire on our property when I was growing up. Dad had a burn barrel WAAAY out back and mom wouldn't speak to him for several hours the few times that he used it.
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12/08/11, 03:48 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle GA
Posts: 16,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMartianChick
They had to go to the fire to make sure that there was no loss of life...They were not willing to risk their own lives to save mere possessions that the owners weren't willing to pay to protect. If someone had been inside the trailer, I'm sure that they would have gone in looking for them.
I am so sorry for your loss, Sonshine. For what it is worth, I do understand your stance on this. My mom would have similar feelings to yours due to having experienced fires in her past. She was so affected by first witnessing a house fire and later having her apartment burn when my dad was deployed during the Korean War. Mom never allowed a woodburning stove to be installed despite the savings on heating oil, nor did we ever barbecue or have a bonfire on our property when I was growing up. Dad had a burn barrel WAAAY out back and mom wouldn't speak to him for several hours the few times that he used it.
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I probably should avoid these types of threads, especially this time of the year.  Although, I'm not as bad as your Mom, I have a wood stove, a fireplace and a firepit outside, but am very cautious when around fires.
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12/08/11, 04:19 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: True Northern California
Posts: 13,455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonshine
If your neighbor's house was on fire, would you just stand and watch it burn, or would you try to help put the fire out?
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Putting the fire fighters in the your place and the non-subscribers in the place of your neighbor- If your neighbor had a fire one year and you risked yourself to help him, then a few months later, his house caught fire again. You helped again but maybe asked that he helped with the cost of the water you had to use. He never paid anything but he soon had a fire again.
By this time, you would have to be a saint not to grumble about what kind of an idiot would keep causing house fires on a regular basis- but you go once more. He thanks you maybe, complains about the mess you made or how long it took to get there, pays nothing towards your expenses and never seems to contribute help anyone else.
By that time even a saint would think he needs to learn to be more careful and more responsible. And you would not go.
Remember the story pointed out it was determined that no lives were in danger. Just a fire department asked to save property outside of their jurisdiction.
Now you have the position of the fire department- too many people taking and too few giving. It is not just once but on a continuous basis- for their "neighbor" is everyone all the time. This department, despite Sawmill Jim's remarks, can not be selfish or they would not participate as volunteers. They must have just been worn out by the takers.
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12/08/11, 04:42 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N.Az
Posts: 4,519
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Maybe the people in that area are already paying enough in taxes and dont feel like paying more so that some people can go without paying anything at all.
Really as far as the costs of owning & maintaining a home go, $75 is nothing.
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12/08/11, 05:15 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 8,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl B.
Maybe the people in that area are already paying enough in taxes and dont feel like paying more so that some people can go without paying anything at all.
Really as far as the costs of owning & maintaining a home go, $75 is nothing.
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Might be something if you lived in a $50.00 house trailer 
Should been living in the section eight housing instead that old trailer anyway,those folks got it made 
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12/08/11, 06:19 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle GA
Posts: 16,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl B.
Maybe the people in that area are already paying enough in taxes and dont feel like paying more so that some people can go without paying anything at all.
Really as far as the costs of owning & maintaining a home go, $75 is nothing.
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People's situations change. At the time they bought the house, they may have had a better paying job, or maybe the house was one they inherited. When a person is living paycheck to paycheck any amount can be hard to aquire.
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12/08/11, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 10,938
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonshine
People's situations change. At the time they bought the house, they may have had a better paying job, or maybe the house was one they inherited. When a person is living paycheck to paycheck any amount can be hard to aquire.
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I guess we should stop volunteering to fight fires at all and let the government take care of us. Sounds like a deal to me I will lose no money time or risk my life to protect the others. Just let the government take care of us and not have to worry about insurance mortgage payments and such.
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God must have loved stupid people because he made so many of them.
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12/08/11, 06:40 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: N.Az
Posts: 4,519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawmill Jim
Might be something if you lived in a $50.00 house trailer
Should been living in the section eight housing instead that old trailer anyway,those folks got it made |
So you think people should get (free to them) section 8 housing because they cant afford $75 a year fire insurance?
ETA, maybe they could have afforded it, they chose not to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonshine
People's situations change. At the time they bought the house, they may have had a better paying job, or maybe the house was one they inherited. When a person is living paycheck to paycheck any amount can be hard to aquire.
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At $75 a year they could probably bum enough change in 2 weekend's of pan-handling. Im also sure if they were on times that desperate one of the Church's would have helped them out.
Last edited by Pearl B; 12/08/11 at 06:42 PM.
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12/08/11, 08:20 PM
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Singletree Moderator
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 8,845
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I thought about this thread this afternoon when I saw our volunteers fueling up the used fire truck we helped them to buy a few years back.
Since I had some extra cash on hand , I convinced the neighbor riding with me to pitch in with me to pay for 20 gallons of their fuel by reminding him that we were in the middle of our worse fire risk months and a few gallons of diesel would help protect both our property investments and our investment in the VFD truck we contributed to since if they can't run the trucks they could risk losing their VFD status and our fire premiums would go sky high.
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"I didn't have time to slay the dragon. It's on my To Do list!"
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12/08/11, 09:50 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Posts: 34,177
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Quote:
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When a person is living paycheck to paycheck any amount can be hard to aquire.
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It's $1.44 a week. or 20 cents a day
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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12/08/11, 09:55 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 1,147
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Here we have a yearly fee. 35.00 If you pay their services are free. If not, you pay 1500 dollars if they come out to your home in the event of a fire. Works so far, but I am not so sure how they enforce it if you DON'T pay..
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12/08/11, 10:31 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle GA
Posts: 16,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm
It's $1.44 a week. or 20 cents a day
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Believe it or not, there has been a couple of times in my life that I could not have afforded even that much.
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12/08/11, 10:52 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern Cali
Posts: 477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm
It's $1.44 a week. or 20 cents a day
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Some days I have trouble scraping up an extra .20 cents in a day after power, gas, food, rent, healthcare, clothes for my kids which I buy second hand, pay my car insurance registration ect, feed for the animals I don't have a cell or cable, (I do have internet which I use for school). It just makes me suspect that you have not experienced it and so cannot relate. If they lived in a trailer it makes me think they are probably nearer to poverty than to well off and rolling in the dough.
I get that they would choose not to save a house that was already too far gone, or risk a life for personal belongings that makes some sense but letting a house burn to the ground simply because of the fact that they did not pay their dues is reprehensible.
So What was it? Did they let it burn for practical and safety purposes or did they do it simply because they did not pay their dues? The motive behind the inaction is incredibly important, the motive makes the difference between sensible or heinous, unjust and amoral.
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12/08/11, 11:04 PM
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Too Complicated For Cable
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Washington
Posts: 10,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NataliaTwoDoes
Some days I have trouble scraping up an extra .20 cents in a day after power, gas, food, rent, healthcare, clothes for my kids which I buy second hand, pay my car insurance registration ect, feed for the animals I don't have a cell or cable, (I do have internet which I use for school). It just makes me suspect that you have not experienced it and so cannot relate. If they lived in a trailer it makes me think they are probably nearer to poverty than to well off and rolling in the dough.
I get that they would choose not to save a house that was already too far gone, or risk a life for personal belongings that makes some sense but letting a house burn to the ground simply because of the fact that they did not pay their dues is reprehensible.
So What was it? Did they let it burn for practical and safety purposes or did they do it simply because they did not pay their dues? The motive behind the inaction is incredibly important, the motive makes the difference between sensible or heinous, unjust and amoral.
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If I don't pay for car insurance can I send in a payment and get a new car...after an accident?
__________________
Know why the middle class is screwed? 3 classes, 2 parties...
To punish me for my contempt for authority, fate made me an authority myself. ~ Einstein
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12/08/11, 11:54 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: middle GA
Posts: 16,654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvalidID
If I don't pay for car insurance can I send in a payment and get a new car...after an accident?
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No, but you should be able to depend on the police to get your body out of a wrecked car before the car explodes, instead of standing there watching it. Or have the police prevent the accident in the first place by directing traffic, or by having a salt truck salt down icy roads, ect.
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12/09/11, 01:01 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 8,280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pearl B.
So you think people should get (free to them) section 8 housing because they cant afford $75 a year fire insurance?
ETA, maybe they could have afforded it, they chose not to.
At $75 a year they could probably bum enough change in 2 weekend's of pan-handling. Im also sure if they were on times that desperate one of the Church's would have helped them out.
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I don't think anyone should get sec 8 housing but under today's laws i bet they would of qualified . Pride does keep some folks in an old beat up trailer .
Remember i use to live near that town know most of them bet they are in the amen corner at church this Sunday too  Any takers
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12/09/11, 01:02 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Northern Cali
Posts: 477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvalidID
If I don't pay for car insurance can I send in a payment and get a new car...after an accident?
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An insurance company is not a public servant, it is a corporate entity with a bottom line in mind and I would never expect them to allow that, it doesnt make sense financially and as an entity they are not held to moral standards. Even so I would not consider it morally wrong for them to deny insurance coverage but I don't view the two in the same way.
Firefighters volunteer or not are public servants and individuals with a conscience and feelings (hopefully) of empathy or love of community at least. I have different expectations of people than I do of corporations. How about you? Do you think comparing corporations to people is a fair comparison? Should we have the same set of rules for a corporate entity that we do for people?
Again I say.....
"So What was it? Did they let it burn for practical and safety purposes or did they do it simply and solely because they did not pay their dues? The motive behind the inaction is incredibly important, the motive makes the difference between sensible or heinous, unjust and amoral."
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