Violent crime rates.. US vs Canada

Well put em.

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I can see both sides being right but calling Americans generous towards Canadians? How's that? We're always getting the short end of the stick when it comes to making "deals". I can't think of any way that Americans are generous towards Canadians unless you count the fact that you allow us to exist aka haven't invaded our country. Yet.

The discussion was about general attitudes as well as the attitudes of us towards them. I was assigned to keep notes so can tell you that generousity was one of the general attitudes (characteristics). Americans are extremely generous -give more to charity, per capita and as a percentage of gross domestic product, than the citizens of other nations. Based on giving alone, the U.S. comes first, giving 1.85% of GDP, followed by Israel at 1.34% and Canada at 1.17%. But based on volunteerism alone, the Netherlands comes first, followed by Sweden and then the U.S.

It seems pretty obvious to me that she was saying that Americans consider Canadians generous....we dont always think they are all that bright (ehem) but they are generous.

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Um... I don't think so?

I had to read that through 3 times but no, it's saying the WHOLE GROUP considered the word "generous" to describe Americans' attitude towards Canadians....

And I'm not saying that Americans aren't generous. (You are!) I'm just saying that I wouldn't use the word generous as one of the defining characteristics of Americans TOWARDS Canadians.

Emdeengee, can you help me out here? My brain is starting to hurt.

Okay, maybe so. I know I have always considered Canadians to be very generous so that may cloud my interpretation. I tease a lot about Canadians as Naturelover knows but I cant think of two other countries that are as closely aligned in spirit and deed. And having served with many different Canadian Armed Forces units I can truly say your military has this 33 year veteran's respect.

But your continued allegiance to the queen has my head scratching.....whats with the whole Queen regent deal? We have a lot of queens in the US but they stay mostly on the west coast.

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We have no allegiance to the Queen. She is however part of our heritage and history and that is important to us.

What queen?

I will say this, I prefer the Canadian style of politics (that we inherited from the British system) over the American system. I like the crazy debates and the 5+ party system. Less black/white, yes/no, my side/your side that the American system has.

I posted a more detailed explanation but you are correct OakLeaf - the term generous was a general characteristic/attitude not specific of Americans towards Canadians. Although there are constant mutual acts of help, co-operation and generousity crossing the northern border all the time. Every year our smoke jumpers end up somewhere in the USA and after the big ice storm of a few years ago entire electric repair crews arrived in Montreal from Vermont and New York to help put things back together.

We are an independent country and a democracy- a sovereign nation with our own constitution and charter of rights. but... Well she is our Queen. Many see no point to the Monarchy but many consider it an important tradition. This is a bit of an explanation

The monarchy of Canada is the core of both Canada's federalism and its Westminster-style parliamentary democracy,[1] being the foundation of the executive, legislative, and judicial branches of the Canadian government and each provincial government.[2][3][4] The monarchy has been headed since 6 February 1952 by Queen Elizabeth II, who as sovereign is shared equally with fifteen other countries within the Commonwealth of Nations, all being independent and the monarchy of each legally distinct. For Canada, the monarch is officially titled Queen of Canada (French: Reine du Canada), and she, her consort, and other members of the Canadian Royal Family undertake various public and private functions across the country and on its behalf abroad. However, the Queen is the only member of the Royal Family with any constitutional role. While several powers are the sovereign's alone, because she lives predominantly in the United Kingdom, most of the royal governmental and ceremonial duties in Canada are carried out by the Queen's representative, the governor general. In each of Canada's provinces, the monarch is represented by a lieutenant governor, while the territories are not sovereign and thus do not have a viceroy.

Per the Canadian constitution, the responsibilities of the sovereign and/or governor general include summoning and dismissing parliament, calling elections, and appointing governments. Further, Royal Assent and the royal sign-manual are required to enact laws, letters patent, and orders in council. But the authority for these acts stems from the Canadian populace and,[5][6][7] within the conventional stipulations of constitutional monarchy, the sovereign's direct participation in any of these areas of governance is limited, with most related powers entrusted for exercise by the elected and appointed parliamentarians, the ministers of the Crown generally drawn from amongst them, and the judges and justices of the peace.[5] The Crown today primarily functions as a guarantor of continuous and stable governance and a nonpartisan safeguard against the abuse of power,[5][8][9] the sovereign acting as a custodian of the Crown's democratic powers and a representation of the "power of the people above government and political parties."[10][11]

I don't know if I can agree with your summation that all other factors seem equal if the young black male is removed from the equation. However, if it is true and the question of what's causing his attitude is relevant then maybe it has something to do with this, if this is true. It's something that another HT member recently said in a topic about police:

If this is true then I can understand how that could create 'attitude' in anyone trying to retain some sense of self-respect and dignity for themself.

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I love my Queen. I would kill for her and die for her to uphold her honor and her life and the honor of the monarchy which is Canada. Not all Canadians feel the same way but there are many who do.

It's no different from how many Americans would kill and die for America to uphold her honor and continuation.

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The US has the second Amendment. Putting guns into the hands of the masses allows those who are evil to commit gun crimes. Every society has people with evil hearts, but guns are harder to come by in other societies.

The US has a huge drug problem. Drugs breed violent crimes.

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Show us some examples where banning guns has stopped that from happening

That can't be true, since drugs are illegal, and you just made the case that bans prevent crime

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Ok, I was referring to the stats on violent crimes committed in our country. (murders in particular) A very high percentage of our murders are committed by the young black males, enough so that if we take those crimes alone, out of the equation, the murder rates per capita are very nearly equal between the two countries. In regards to the comment about having to teach these youths to "roll over" when confronted by an officer I would note that ANYONE is subject to have their world changed for them if they fail to respect an officer in our country. I was taught at an early age to stop, answer any questions respectfully and do exactly as instructed by any officer of the law. I have never suffered any self respect or dignity issues because of that training by my parents. Of course my parents were not ones to tolerate any level of disrespect in their direction either, nor would they tolerate it towards any adult.

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Ummm and what is this drug problem? There seems to be plenty of them available so far as I can tell.

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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain

I was also taught to obey police instructions. I have never gotten into trouble because I disregarded this. However I have only been in the situation of having to respond to police a few times in my life. I have a First Nations friend who gets stopped at least once a month - no matter where he is, what he is doing, how he is dressed, who he is with etc etc. When he goes into a store the clerks follow him and his wife around. He happens to be a University professor. I asked him why he has not taken this to court and he says because he is actually documenting it all. Some of his inteactions with police have been very aggressive on the part of the police. Espcecially when they find out who he is and they are suddenly afraid. I think he is playing with fire because one time they will accuse him of resisting arrest or something else and it may all go very, very wrong.

Statistics show that more crimes are committed by African Americans. They also show that African Americans are stopped by police all the time for feeble reasons. I wonder just how tolerant I would be of police intrusion in my life on a constant basis? If I were stopped because I was walking in a rich neighbourhood at night. On my way to my own home.

Well the US isnt a democracy its a Constitutional Republic which seems to confuse people even in our country but I have to say my wife has tried to explain the Canadian form of government and I am convinced even most Canadians dont really understand yours either. She also supports the Quebec sovereignty movement and from her perspective, most of Canada outside of Quebec and the Maritimes is nothing but oppressive Anglophiles who ignore, try to subvert and infringe on the historical french culture that originally formed Canada. A lot of Quebec isnt all that thrilled by the Queen ne?

But back to the OP, England has even more restrictive gun laws than Canada and yet their crime rate is significantly higher per capita...so are Canadians just more intelligent? More "refined"? I am actually curious if any of you have a theory. I do think there is something to the cultural aspect theory in that we are generally more aggressive in the United States by culture and we not only dont like to conform to one size fits all rules and regulations and we resent the intrusion of government at almost all levels as opposed to Canadians who like having government protecting them from themselves but that really doesnt explain what the OP meant or was asking. I still say that when you extract the demographic groups both of our countries have made a mess of you will find similar stats in crime in the rest of the population.

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Well there have been two referendums in Quebec to try for separation and they both failed. If the majority ever does vote to separate then they will. Their choice. And Quebec just kicked out the Bloc Quebecois (Separatist Party) from Federal Politics going with the New Democratic Party instead so no one is that concerned about separation. However if it happens a lot of details to be worked out first including the St Lawrence seaway, the military and the money. Of course the threat to separate is extremely powerful (more powerful than actual separation) and is used with a heavy hand by Quebec to get a lot of advantages and enormous transfer payments.

Historically the French were defeated by the British and then Upper and Lower Canada were created to embrace the French culture and not treat them as the conquered. An interesting side note is that The Province of Upper Canada (French: province du Haut-Canada) was a political division in British Canada established in 1791 by the British Empire to govern the central third of the lands in British North America and to accommodate Loyalist refugees from the United States of America after the American Revolution. The new province remained the government of the colonial territory for the next fifty years of growth and settlement.
The Province of Lower Canada was created by the Constitutional Act of 1791 from the partition of the British colony of the Province of Quebec (1763–91) into the Province of Lower Canada and the Province of Upper Canada. The prefix "lower" in its name refers to its geographic position farther downriver from the headwaters of the St. Lawrence River than its contemporary Upper Canada, present-day southern Ontario.

Lower Canada consisted of part of former French colony of New France, populated mainly by French Canadians, which was ceded to Great Britain after that empire's victory in the Seven Years' War, also called the French and Indian Wars in the United States. Other parts of New France ceded to Britain became the Colonies of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island.


The Confederation of Canada was created when Upper and Lower (English and French) decided that they were stronger as one independent country. They petitioned Queen Victoria and she agreed so Canada was created.

This sort of leads to the guns thing. Canada was a country that was created without a war just a few rebellions. In fact it was born through diplomatic talks. The creation of the United States was a long and bloody birth. You have George Washington who is idolized as the Father of the country and a great war hero. We have Sir John A. MacDonald. He was a great and cunning politician but a rake, drunkard, tavern brawler and financial crook and we all know this and are not ashamed. We elected him for 19 years. Perhaps that is an explanation for the different outlooks.

I just wanted to note one thing in this comparison. Chicago and most of Illinois as a state have some of the strictest gun control laws on the books in the United States. I was told by my PTC (Permit To Carry) instructor he would not even try to bring a squirt gun into Illinois for fear of being arrested. So even with the gun control, they have a lot of deaths by comparison.