Can The Middle Class Be Saved?

brreitsma · #21 08/14/11, 10:44 PM

As I stated the U.S. doesn't have much of a middle class. It has a large middle income. Middle class is self ownership of the tools and means of your labor regardless of income level.

haypoint · #22 08/15/11, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shrek

Yep "inflation" is the magic word after the initial depression sting and acclimation cycle.

Twenty years ago some local companies outsourced a lot of production lines overseas according to the scuttlebutt around town at wages about 30% lower than they were here but that reduced wage was about three times the average wage in the area where the production went.

In the years since the local economy where the relocated production lines went prospered based on the higher wages paid by the American owned companies stimulation.

At the same time the per share earnings of the companies first increased dramatically then gradually declined as the economy at the outsurce grew and the wage requirements increased.

Two decades later some of the outsourced production is finding its way back home as domestic workers are willing to work for wages equal to or in some cases below what the outsource area is now demanding and the company can once again have domestic production and quality testing and sales U.S. based without the expense of shipping the finished product in for final disposition.

Regardless where the work is if some are making a better wage, local prices and taxes will begin gearing to those better wages. As more begin requiring higher wages, the employers will relocate to areas or return to their original base where they can pay lower wages, have lower overhead cost and keep employees and shareholders content and the recessive/inflationary cycle starts all over again.

I'm really looking forward to going toe to toe with China over wages and living conditions.

Yvonne's hubby · #23 08/15/11, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

I agree that homesteading may not solve the problem, but perhaps it can add purpose and dignity to the lives of those of us earning $8 an hour. It certainly works for me!

I wish I could earn 8 bucks an hour like I did at the peak of my working years. At this point it looks like I am going to be stuck at 88.5 cents an hour from here on out. But then thats better than the 50 cents an hour I started out earning back in the 60's.

Yvonne's hubby · #24 08/15/11, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly

Define "middle class".

If middle class means your family owns a home of 1600 sqft or less, owns one automobile, are able to pay your utility bills on time, are able to put food on the table every meal and put a little back in savings every month...I'd say you're definitely middle class.

OTOH, if you're in debt past your eyeballs, driving two new cars, living in a McMansion with all the latest electronic gizmos...you're just upper class wannabes.

So where does that put us? We have two cars, a pickup, boat, two motor cycles, two tractors, with the various equipment for them, live in a 1800 sq ft home, (complete with cable, flat screen tv,surround sound systems in nearly every room of the house, DSL service, computers, smart phone, hot tub (one of my fav luxuries), we eat well, keep a well stocked bar (thats not a luxury, that essential) have enough money to pay our monthly bills on time and are able to tuck away a fair portion of our income each month and are NOT up to our eyeballs in debt? Ok, the wife owes a couple grand on her credit cards, but thats really not a biggy as we could pay them off out of our savings at any point. We dont do that coz they are on zero percent and it just doesnt make sense to cash out money earning money to pay on CC's that cost nothing.

fishhead · #25 08/16/11, 09:26 AM

I remember making $22/hr in 1984 working construction. Double time on Sundays. Now I make $13.50 and have a college degree.

No economy can be based on unlimited population growth or unlimited consumption. We need to start planning for an economy with a stable population but I'm not convinced that humans will last that long given the challenges we face and the inability to make any progress on solving them.

Curtis B · #26 08/16/11, 09:56 AM

At some point businesses and workers forgot that they have a symbiotic relationship. The workers forgot that without the businesses they would not have an income. The businesses forgot that without the workers there would be nobody to buy their product. I wonder how long the manufactorers that moved overseas to have their products built will realize that their consumers here cannot buy them any more due to no longer having jobs.