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08/10/11, 04:29 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by linn
Exactly how is Obama transferring public assets into private hands. It seems to me that he and the liberals are bent on taking our private assets and transferring it into government hands.  I disagree with you statement, but we are not going to agree and I fear some of my comments could have been nicer, so I am going to quit before I embarrass myself by becoming really petty.LOL |
Yes, some of it is paid out in the form of entitlements. The vast majority of it is paid out in the form of government contracts. Remember, the government doesn't actually produce anything - this means that everything the government consumes, distributes, gives away, it bought from someone (a private company) and paid for with money it took from someone else (you and me).
Who do you think lobbyists are? Why do you think they spend so much time wining and dining lawmakers? The answer is money! more money than you and I can really imagine (and I have a very active imagination), and the money is flowing both ways - campaigns are financed with it and contracts are awarded accordingly.
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"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist"- Archbishop Camara
The Mad Luddite
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08/11/11, 10:01 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: southern illinois
Posts: 6,744
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Originally Posted by Tricky Grama
Riiiight. Like all those 'sit down & talk' sessions w/Iran?? Ya know like he promised b/4 election? BWHahahaha!!
Loads of cash to the ME? Yup-goes on daily.
Brought the economy BACK??? Where do you live? Can you COUNT?? Look at the job #s!
C'mon man!! Make some sense here!
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I'm making plenty of sense, you are just so warped by your hatred of Obama you cant tell whats true and whats not anymore! LOL. Dont blame me for raining on your constant anti-Obama tirades. And you know darn well where I live, you can READ cant you??
The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over. FACT.
And you know I was talking LITERALLY about planeloads of CASH to the middle east. That was the Bush plan, flood the area with weapons and greenbacks and see what happens. Well, we're still there. But we are leaving, slowly. I know we'll never leave fully, because obviously that was not part of the neo-con plan, but things are winding down. We didnt get our empire, but we got to pay for one. At least the defense industry was happy.
You guys just keep on complaining, I never see any SOLUTIONS being offered up, just critisisms... your solution seems to be put the GOP back in power, and sorry, that didnt work out so well when the Chimp in Chief W got his hands on the steering wheel.
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08/11/11, 10:12 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 2,053
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The only real solution is less spending and they're not going to do that. So in the end the problem never gets solved regardless of who's at the helm.
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08/12/11, 01:08 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Eastern North Carolina
Posts: 34,187
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Quote:
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And you know I was talking LITERALLY about planeloads of CASH to the middle east.
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Yes, we realize you were referring to the IRAQI cash that was seized, then RETURNED to them.
You were probably hoping we didn't know those details
It was always their money
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/feb/08/usa.iraq1
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The memorandum details the casual manner in which the US-led Coalition Provisional Authority disbursed the money, which came from Iraqi oil sales, surplus funds from the UN oil-for-food programme and seized Iraqi assets.
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However, evidence before the committee suggests that senior American officials were unconcerned about the situation because the billions were not US taxpayers' money
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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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08/12/11, 02:10 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg273
I'm making plenty of sense, you are just so warped by your hatred of Obama you cant tell whats true and whats not anymore! LOL. Dont blame me for raining on your constant anti-Obama tirades. And you know darn well where I live, you can READ cant you??
The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over. FACT.
And you know I was talking LITERALLY about planeloads of CASH to the middle east. That was the Bush plan, flood the area with weapons and greenbacks and see what happens. Well, we're still there. But we are leaving, slowly. I know we'll never leave fully, because obviously that was not part of the neo-con plan, but things are winding down. We didnt get our empire, but we got to pay for one. At least the defense industry was happy.
You guys just keep on complaining, I never see any SOLUTIONS being offered up, just critisisms... your solution seems to be put the GOP back in power, and sorry, that didnt work out so well when the Chimp in Chief W got his hands on the steering wheel.
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The economy is in far better shape than when he took over. FACT. Are you kidding???? That one statement pretty much proves you are out of touch with reality and living in leftist propaganda induced bubble fantasy land.
I nearly had milk snort out my nose when I read it. You should try to win the contest for best joke......
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08/12/11, 07:43 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: N. E. TX
Posts: 29,592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg273
I'm making plenty of sense, you are just so warped by your hatred of Obama you cant tell whats true and whats not anymore! LOL. Dont blame me for raining on your constant anti-Obama tirades. And you know darn well where I live, you can READ cant you??
The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over. FACT.
And you know I was talking LITERALLY about planeloads of CASH to the middle east. That was the Bush plan, flood the area with weapons and greenbacks and see what happens. Well, we're still there. But we are leaving, slowly. I know we'll never leave fully, because obviously that was not part of the neo-con plan, but things are winding down. We didnt get our empire, but we got to pay for one. At least the defense industry was happy.
You guys just keep on complaining, I never see any SOLUTIONS being offered up, just critisisms... your solution seems to be put the GOP back in power, and sorry, that didnt work out so well when the Chimp in Chief W got his hands on the steering wheel.
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Well, post the job #s then! Show the GROWTH!! Its far worse than when the big ZERO took over.
PS-nowhere have I ever said I hate Obama. I hate the policies he's put into place & the ones he still wants to implement. We conservatives have posted our ideas/plans enuf times on this forum. You continue your mantra tho w/eyes wide shut.
I'm quite certain the man is a good husband & father.
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08/12/11, 08:20 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,917
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky Grama
Well, post the job #s then! Show the GROWTH!! Its far worse than when the big ZERO took over.
PS-nowhere have I ever said I hate Obama. I hate the policies he's put into place & the ones he still wants to implement. We conservatives have posted our ideas/plans enuf times on this forum. You continue your mantra tho w/eyes wide shut.
I'm quite certain the man is a good husband & father.
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When Obama took office, it looked like the economy was plummeting to a nearly instantaneous demise. Unemployment looked like it was going to go through the roof.
One can argue about whether or not the economy is recovering or not, but the one thing it isn't doing is heading precipitously downward.
So what did Obama do that's caused our current crisis?
1. He adopted the bailout plan put forward by Hank Paulsen - Secretary of the Treasury -UNDER BUSH.
It was a Republican plan that nobody liked. BUT if McCain had won the election, do you honestly believe that he wouldn't also have put forward the same Republican plan? This was the best possible thing that could have happened to Republicans - they got to push one of their programs through and then blame the failure on somebody else.
2. He extended the Bush era tax cuts. At the time, he had a majority in the house; he had a fillibusterproof majority in the Senate. He could have asked for and gotten any kind of tax increase he wanted. Instead, he continued exactly as Bush had.
3. He bailed out two of the three automakers, by giving them cash in exchange for non-voting, non-dividend paying shares of stock, and forced labor unions to make concessions, and took away their right to strike under the new, revised contract he crammed down their throat.
4. He implemented Cash for Clunkers, which amounted to a second gift-wrap package of cash for auto-makers.
5. He pushed for and signed the Health Care Reform Act, which forces at least 40 million americans who previously were not to become customers of Insurance companies.
6. Besides not ending the two Republican wars, he's started at least one, and maybe as many as three other wars at the cost of billions. When we say that a war cost billions, what are we actually saying? Besides the salaries of those doing the training, which amounts to millions at most, we're saying that the Government is buying a lot of equipment and materials and services from Defense Contractors - those corporations are not selling that stuff to the government at a loss (read their financial reports if you don't believe me). Subsidizing the Defense Industry is a time-honored Republican past time.
In short, while his rhetoric is certainly different, nothing Obama has done is the least bit anti-Republican. Obama's biggest failure is that he has failed to CHANGE anything except the rhetoric. He's failed to be a leader, because he's simply followed Republicans. He's failed to be a liberal in anything except running his mouth.
__________________
"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist"- Archbishop Camara
The Mad Luddite
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08/12/11, 04:54 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: southern illinois
Posts: 6,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClue
When Obama took office, it looked like the economy was plummeting to a nearly instantaneous demise. Unemployment looked like it was going to go through the roof.
One can argue about whether or not the economy is recovering or not, but the one thing it isn't doing is heading precipitously downward.
So what did Obama do that's caused our current crisis?
1. He adopted the bailout plan put forward by Hank Paulsen - Secretary of the Treasury -UNDER BUSH.
It was a Republican plan that nobody liked. BUT if McCain had won the election, do you honestly believe that he wouldn't also have put forward the same Republican plan? This was the best possible thing that could have happened to Republicans - they got to push one of their programs through and then blame the failure on somebody else.
2. He extended the Bush era tax cuts. At the time, he had a majority in the house; he had a fillibusterproof majority in the Senate. He could have asked for and gotten any kind of tax increase he wanted. Instead, he continued exactly as Bush had.
3. He bailed out two of the three automakers, by giving them cash in exchange for non-voting, non-dividend paying shares of stock, and forced labor unions to make concessions, and took away their right to strike under the new, revised contract he crammed down their throat.
4. He implemented Cash for Clunkers, which amounted to a second gift-wrap package of cash for auto-makers.
5. He pushed for and signed the Health Care Reform Act, which forces at least 40 million americans who previously were not to become customers of Insurance companies.
6. Besides not ending the two Republican wars, he's started at least one, and maybe as many as three other wars at the cost of billions. When we say that a war cost billions, what are we actually saying? Besides the salaries of those doing the training, which amounts to millions at most, we're saying that the Government is buying a lot of equipment and materials and services from Defense Contractors - those corporations are not selling that stuff to the government at a loss (read their financial reports if you don't believe me). Subsidizing the Defense Industry is a time-honored Republican past time.
In short, while his rhetoric is certainly different, nothing Obama has done is the least bit anti-Republican. Obama's biggest failure is that he has failed to CHANGE anything except the rhetoric. He's failed to be a leader, because he's simply followed Republicans. He's failed to be a liberal in anything except running his mouth.
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Agreed, 100%. Your post pretty well sums it up.
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08/12/11, 05:48 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: southern illinois
Posts: 6,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgmr05
The economy is in far better shape than when he took over. FACT. Are you kidding???? That one statement pretty much proves you are out of touch with reality and living in leftist propaganda induced bubble fantasy land.
I nearly had milk snort out my nose when I read it. You should try to win the contest for best joke......
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Wow, use much rhetoric? 'left wing fantasy land'?? Sorry, but I live in the REAL world... and I can plainly see the economy is better than 08-09. Granted, that is not saying much, but at least my industry, residential construction, is showing some signs of life after being dead in the water for 18 months beginning in 08. Now that is regional,I will admit. Things as a whole arent great, but what did you expect after the housing bust and subprime mess?
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08/12/11, 05:59 PM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoClue
Yes, some of it is paid out in the form of entitlements. The vast majority of it is paid out in the form of government contracts. Remember, the government doesn't actually produce anything - this means that everything the government consumes, distributes, gives away, it bought from someone (a private company) and paid for with money it took from someone else (you and me).
Who do you think lobbyists are? Why do you think they spend so much time wining and dining lawmakers? The answer is money! more money than you and I can really imagine (and I have a very active imagination), and the money is flowing both ways - campaigns are financed with it and contracts are awarded accordingly.
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I agree with you inasmuch as the government doesnt produce anything... well at least nothing good. I do think you are mistaken though on the amount of money going to contractors and the money going to entitlements. Roughly 2/3s of our federal tax dollars go to entitlements in one form or another... the remaining third goes out to government employees in wages and benefits... along with those government contracts.
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/12/11, 06:17 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: southern illinois
Posts: 6,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky Grama
Well, post the job #s then! Show the GROWTH!! Its far worse than when the big ZERO took over.
PS-nowhere have I ever said I hate Obama. I hate the policies he's put into place & the ones he still wants to implement. We conservatives have posted our ideas/plans enuf times on this forum. You continue your mantra tho w/eyes wide shut.
I'm quite certain the man is a good husband & father.
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Never had a 'mantra'... not sure what your getting at there, but here are the unemployment numbers since 2001...
http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
Obama inherited a mess in late 08...and the numbers show under his presidency, the downward spiral has been arrested, and we are beginning to SLOWLY make progress toward a reasonably healthy economy. This is not partisan, this is what is actually occurring.
And yes, things did get worse when Obama took over. But the numbers clearly show the drastic upward spike in unemployment occurred in the last year of W, with no help from Obama. Thank Goldman Sachs, AIG, and the rest of the speculators and congressional enablers that sheared the lambs one last time before the GOP exited the White House.... the Final Scam that nearly took down the economy.
Last edited by greg273; 08/12/11 at 06:23 PM.
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08/12/11, 06:22 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: N. E. TX
Posts: 29,592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg273
Wow, use much rhetoric? 'left wing fantasy land'?? Sorry, but I live in the REAL world... and I can plainly see the economy is better than 08-09. Granted, that is not saying much, but at least my industry, residential construction, is showing some signs of life after being dead in the water for 18 months beginning in 08. Now that is regional,I will admit. Things as a whole arent great, but what did you expect after the housing bust and subprime mess?
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Do you remember what the unemployment rate was when the big ZERO took office? Give ya a hint: He said "hurryhurryhurry pass this stimkulus bill so the rate WILL NOT GO ABOVE 8!!"
BWhahaha!
Economy is "plainly better"? Not according to any news source.
Other 'promises':
End the recession & bring back a healthy booming economy.
Yeah. Complete failure. Look at housing. Jobs.
2. End the war in Iraq w/o leaving them in dire straits.
Pretty much still a disaster.
3. "Reset" relations w/Russia.
Bwhahaha! Even the 'reset' button was bogus.
4. Go over the federal budget 'line by line' removing pork.
Another BWhahaha! Plus-where's the budget for the last 3 yrs?
5. Bring peace to the ME.
Wow, 'course evveryone knew this wouldn't happen. Just gripes me that one POTUS can say "no new taxes" & lose the office but this one can get by w/anything.
6. Create a new peaceful productive relationship w/Iran.
Yeah. That happened, huh.
7. Close GITMO.
Sure its congress' fault for passing a law to withold funds so he can't. HIS "D" congress. What a leader.
8. Immigration reform by the end of his 1st year.
Well, maybe this IS reform? We're so poor that the illegals are going home.
9. Health Care.
BWhahaha! 1 1/2 yrs wasted on a horrendous usless illegal piece of carp.
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08/12/11, 06:33 PM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky Grama
7. Close GITMO.
Sure its congress' fault for passing a law to withold funds so he can't.
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How much funding is required to turn the lights and water off, and bring our people home... Gitmo closed!
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/12/11, 06:55 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: southern illinois
Posts: 6,744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm
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Hah... 'Returned' to them, via the hands of the CPA, which, you know, took a little off the top...
The other trillion in US taxpayer money spent on Iraq could have went to better uses, in my opinion. Such as US infrastructure, something lasting and domestic. Not a boon for weapon dealers.
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08/12/11, 07:45 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Austin-ish, Texas
Posts: 5,000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HTG_zoo
My fiancee is probably going to die because of Obamacare. He needs a heart valve replacement, but since we live with the person we rent from, and she makes a decent living, he doesn't qualify for medicaid. He's not yet disabled enough to qualify for disability (and it will be a 3-4 year fight to get it when he is.) Before Obamacare, we were on the list to get him on the Healthy Indiana Plan, which is a program that would have allowed us to purchase insurance for him at $250 a month. The new federal rules for state medicaid funding have led our state to deny this coverage to adults without kids. The cheapest insurance quote we have found, is more then he makes each month. So he's getting by with cheap meds from the low cost clinic, who are pushing him to see the cardiologist that already charged us $350 for nothing.
So due to his impending massive medical bills and our state's joint property laws, we're not planning on getting married any time soon.
Also, my doctor left the country rather then deal with the new rules, which put me in a bind, it's hard to find a doctor who will take a chronic pain patient, let alone one with neurological problems and kidney disease.
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Move to Oregon. Seriously. The Oregon Health Plan is available to all Oregon residents and premiums are based on a sliding, income-related scale.
Another thought, if both or one of you is still able to work, take a job for a big company that offers group health insurance with no consideration for "pre-existing conditions".
You have my sympathy. The healthcare system in this country needs a serious overhaul.
__________________
"Perhaps I'll have them string a clothesline from the hearse I am in, with my underwear waving in the breeze, as we drive to the cemetary. People worry about the dumbest things!"
by Wendy
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08/12/11, 08:31 PM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg273
Hah... 'Returned' to them, via the hands of the CPA, which, you know, took a little off the top...
The other trillion in US taxpayer money spent on Iraq could have went to better uses, in my opinion. Such as US infrastructure, something lasting and domestic. Not a boon for weapon dealers.
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Yes, our patent office could prolly use a revamp, along with our post roads... Those are only a couple of the Constitutionally authorized areas that the federal government is ALLOWED BY LAW to spend our money on as far as "infrastructure" is concerned. 
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/12/11, 09:59 PM
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Unapologetically me
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 12,630
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All I'm reading is excuses.
Obama sold guns to Mexican drug lords.
He left holes in the border
He did it to try to take away our gun rights.
Anybody who can't see that is being foolish.
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Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
Mark Twain
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Enforced tolerance is oppression
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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08/12/11, 11:02 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: E. Oklahoma
Posts: 675
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We really dont know what would have happened if he had not been there. Maybe total collapse? I think he is a great man.
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08/12/11, 11:08 PM
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Murphy was an optimist ;)
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 21,493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manfred
We really dont know what would have happened if he had not been there. Maybe total collapse? I think he is a great man.
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I seldom think of men who are contributers to the problem as being "great" men. But thats just me. 
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"Nothing so needs reforming as other peoples habits." Mark Twain
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08/12/11, 11:40 PM
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Moderator
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: NE PA Near Lake Wallenpaupack
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg273
The economy is in FAR better shape than when he took over. FACT.
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I think you mean FANTASY. Love to see your proof of this fact. Doubt it tho.
Matt
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