Are Mormons Freemasons in Disguise?

mnn2501 · #41 07/23/11, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ||Downhome||

considering only congress has the ability to declare war, I don't think even if the president was Gandi. would it keep us from war. perhaps places like Libya but not war.

So shooting and bombing in Libya is not really a war.
Iraq was started by the last President and then later voted upon by conrgess -- remember WMD's?
Afganistan - same thing

The President orders the actions then has 6 months to convince Congress -- which the latest President has ignored in Libya (illegally in my opinion)

Riverdale · #42 07/23/11, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arabian knight

Whats the big deal IF they are or not, or just a little??
Many signers of the Declaration of Independence were Masons~!!!!!
This should not be a consideration for condemning anybody.

And none were Mormons. (not a slam) Mormonism did not start until the 1820's.

And yes I did research Mormonism (King Strang) for a report (close to home, Charlevoix County Michigan esp Beaver Island).

And I was formerly married to a RLDS member so I caught a lot of info.

fwiw, I am a lapsed Lutheran (Missouri Synad)

VERN in IL · #43 07/23/11, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnn2501

So you say it was a great secret until his funeral -- to a 7 or 8 year old who only cared about the candy he got. Yes, sorry Vern, I don't think you're running on all 8 cylinders on this one.

You have not refuted my statement.

Quote:

Three distinguishing principles of secret societies are secrecy, their peculiar emphasis on benevolence, and their system of regalia, badges, rank and formalities, as well as many incidental practices that are radically false, and plainly opposed to sound reason and the Word of God.

That is my definition of a secret society, and yes, even non masons give butterfingers to their children(--- is your point here?), and I NEVER said it was a great society. I am friends to some masons, and I have nothing to do with their fraternal affiliations.

mnn2501 · #44 07/23/11, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

You have not refuted my statement.

You are correct: I was merely pointing out that your statement of great suprise in finding out at the funeral when you were 7 or 8 that Grandpa was a Mason is totally illogical. Especially when you admited that your only real interest in Grandpa was in the candy he gave you and that you never cared about talking to him about himself.(which is not too unusual for a 7 or 8 year old)
That you would be suprised under that situation is totally illogical.

VERN in IL · #45 07/23/11, 06:02 PM

Quote:

I was merely pointing out that your statement of great suprise in finding out at the funeral when you were 7 or 8 that Grandpa was a Mason is totally illogical.

When your brought up in a secular Christian household that taught against secrets and double mindedness, yes it is very logical. It was how I was raised, I was told; Mason = Worshipers of "the bearer of the light". I also was told there were tooth fairies and a Santa Claus....

..and it was not like you see today, he didn't have the Masonic square and compass emblems on his car, and my Great Grandma didn't know anything done at the lodge.

VERN in IL · #46 07/24/11, 02:28 AM

I have found this tid bit, there is no doubt that Masonry practice is in the Mormon church.

This article basically summarizes the history of Joseph Smith.

Quote:

Joseph Smith:
America's Hermetic Prophet

by Lance S. Owens

http://www.gnosis.org/ahp.htm

I found this interesting, from the article:

Quote:

Fifty years later, at the end of the nineteenth century, leaders of the Utah church would still occasionally state in private that the Mormon temple ritual embodied "true Masonry" – a fact unknown to most modern Mormons. But then, of course, almost all of this history is unknown to the average modern Mormon. Even well-educated "Latter-day Saints" today seldom understand the origins of the compass and square embroidered upon the breasts of the ritual garment worn by temple initiates. The relationship of these temple rituals' development with Joseph Smith's occult vision and the concurrent introduction of Masonry in Nauvoo is now, however, becoming the subject of intense renewed interest.

So those markings at this link that I posted earlier in this thread are indeed masonic in nature?
http://lifeafterministry.wordpress.c...other-rituals/

Quote:

Joseph Smith's quest for a sacred golden treasure buried in dark earth, his involvement with ceremonial magic, the angelic visitations, the pseudepigraphic texts he "translated", his declaration of Masonry as a remnant of priesthood, and his restoration of a Temple with its central mystery of a sacred wedding – all could be fitted into one very recently recognized context: Hermeticism.

Quote:

Shortly after his Masonic initiations, Smith began formulating the rituals that would be instituted in his own Mormon Temple, then still under early phases of construction in Nauvoo. Six weeks later a first version of this "endowment" (as the ritual was subsequently called) was given by Joseph to a "Holy Order" of nine disciples, all of whom were Master Masons. Many elements of the "endowment" ritual directly paralleled Masonic ceremony, a fact plainly evident to participants. Smith explained to his followers that Masonry was a remnant – even if somewhat corrupted – of the ancient priesthood God had commissioned him to restore in its fullness. In turn, essentially every prominent male figure in the Mormon Church who was present as an adult in Nauvoo became a Master Mason.

mnn2501 · #47 07/24/11, 10:43 AM

And once again I ask, what is wrong with Masons? (outside of your own mind)

You admit you were taught that

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

It was how I was raised, I was told; Mason = Worshipers of "the bearer of the light".

I can only assume you believe that is a reference to Lucifer from the way you are talking.
Since you were also told that

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

I also was told there were tooth fairies and a Santa Claus....

Perhaps not everything you learned in childhood was 100% Truth with a capital T

Your objections to "secrets" are laughable as anyone may join either organization and find out for thmselves. In Mormons case we make Sacred Covenants with God in our Temples and those Covenants are personal and sacred, having an audience of gawkers is just not something that will happen.

VERN in IL · #48 07/25/11, 08:24 PM

Quote:

And once again I ask, what is wrong with Masons? (outside of your own mind)

... searching on the Internet is EASY;

Quote:

Joseph Fort Newton (1880-1950), an Episcopal minister and recognized authority in the Masonic world, said, "Masonry is not a religion but Religion -- not a church but a worship in which men of all religions may unite." In fact, Freemasonry even sees itself as superseding and unifying all religions. (At various times and places, Freemasonry has met religious and political opposition. Religious opponents, especially the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, have traditionally claimed that Freemasonry is a religion and is a secret organization.)

Henry Wilson Coil is the author of the encyclopedia that many lodges now accept as their authoritative source (Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia). Coil says that if Freemasonry is not a religion, nothing would have to be added to make it such, and that the religious service at the funeral of a Mason is evidence enough that Freemasonry is a religion. But the fact that Freemasonry is religion would not necessarily condemn it, except that the views of the Masonic religion are in open conflict with Biblical Christianity, so much so that, in our opinion, a knowledgeable and committed Mason could not possibly be a true Christian.

Below is detailed what the Masons believe about their source of authority, God, Jesus Christ, sin, and salvation and future life:

1. Source of Authority. Masons refer to the Bible as the "Volume of the Sacred Law" (V.S.L.), and it is considered an indispensable part of what is called "the furniture" in a Masonic Lodge. But the Bible is used only in a so-called "Christian" lodge -- the Hebrew Pentateuch is used in a Hebrew lodge, the Koran in a Mohammedan lodge, the Vedas in a Brahmin lodge, etc. Jim Shaw, a former 33rd degree Mason, says that Masonry is not based on the Bible (referred to as "The Great Light"), but on the Kabala (Cabala), a medieval book of mysticism and magic. Masonic authority Henry Wilson Coil also admits that the Kabala's teachings can be seen in some of the mystical and philosophical degrees of Masonry. Albert Pike (see next), the man responsible for virtually rewriting the Scottish Rite degrees into their present form, said that the Masonic "search after light" leads directly back to the Kabala, the ultimate source of Masonic beliefs (Morals and Dogma). [HJB]

One of the great authorities on Masonry was Albert Pike (1809-1901), Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern Supreme Council of Scottish Right Freemasonry in the USA and "an honorary member of almost every Supreme Council in the world" (Albert G. Mackey, 33rd degree, and Charles T. McClenachan, 33rd degree, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, The Masonic History Company, 1921, rev. ed.; 2:564). Pike authored Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the Supreme Council of the 33rd Degree, which was published by its authority. This compendium of official Masonic lore clearly traces Masonry to Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, and other Eastern religions. Albert G. Mackey, co-author of Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, is also one of Masonry's highest authorities. In his Manual of the Lodge, he traces Masonic teaching back to "the ancient rites and mysteries practiced in the very bosom of pagan darkness. ..." (Albert G. Mackey, Manual of the Lodge, Macoy and Sickles, 1802, p. 96).

In the final analysis, Masons do not adjust their beliefs to fit the Bible, the Bible is adjusted to fit their beliefs. A Mason's loyalty is never to God but to the Lodge. Coil has concluded that: "The prevailing Masonic opinion is that the Bible is only a symbol of Divine Will, Law, or Revelation, and not that its contents are Divine Law, inspired, or revealed. So far, no responsible authority has held that a Freemason must believe the Bible or any part of it." Masonry's only concern is that each person must swear by the most holy book he knows, so that he will then keep the oaths of Freemasonry.

At the heart of Masonry is a secret Luciferian doctrine which a Mason only comes to understand as he reaches the higher levels. Manly Palmer Hall, another of the great authorities on Masonry, writes, "When the Mason ... has learned the mystery of his Craft, the seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands. ..." (Manly Palmer Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 48). The Apostle John warned that those who deny that Jesus is the only, all sufficient Christ, and that He came once and for all in the flesh, have embraced the spirit of Antichrist (1 Jn. 4:1-3). That Jesus was not the Christ, but that He had attained to the state of "Christ-consciousness" available to all mankind, is again part of Masonry: "Jesus of Nazareth had attained a level of consciousness, of perfection, that has been called by various names: cosmic consciousness, soul regeneration, philosophic initiation, spiritual illumination, Brahmic Splendor, Christ-consciousness" (Lynn F. Perkins, The Meaning of Masonry, CSA Press, 1971, p. 53).

4. Sin. Sin is seldom referred to in Masonic literature. The reality of sin in the Biblical sense is denied (much like the Christian Scientists); Masons think that any "shortcomings" can be overcome by greater enlightenment. Yet in attaining the degree of Master Mason, the symbolism implies that a person is redeemed from the death of sin and sin's pollution. [HJB]

5. Salvation and Future Life. Masons think that salvation refers to being brought from the material to the spiritual; i.e., when man returns to "his forgotten inherent spirituality." Masons believe that the degree of Master Mason is symbolical of old age, which allows a person to happily reflect on a well-spent life and to "die in the hope of a glorious immortality." Because they deny the reality of sin, Masons see no need of salvation in the Biblical sense. They see salvation as a step-by-step enlightenment, which comes through initiation into the Masonic degrees and their mysteries. [HJB]

In the 19th degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, the initiate is told that attachment to Masonry's "statutes and rules of the order" will make him "deserving of entering the celestial Jerusalem [heaven]." In the 28th degree, he is told that "the true Mason [is one] who raises himself by degrees till he reaches heaven" and that one of his duties is "To divest [him]self of original sin ..." Masons clearly teach a salvation by works, or character development, not a salvation by faith in Christ alone. Even in the 32nd Degree, a Mason never can nor will find the "light" he is looking for.

Care to disprove this?

deaconjim · #49 07/25/11, 08:26 PM

Of course, everything you read on the internet is true.

VERN in IL · #50 07/25/11, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deaconjim

Of course, everything you read on the internet is true.

It is when it has many written references, and my Original question was answered. Confirmed with my external research and the help of some users in this thread. The conclusion is Mormonisim has much similarities, perhaps more than any other religion to the Order. The markings on the garments are indeed of Masonic origins, nothing to do with Christianity. As a Bible Christian that is a very important thing, and I can witness for Christ.

Oggie · #51 07/25/11, 08:49 PM

Are Mormons Freemasons in Disguise? - General Chat

Pops2 · #52 07/26/11, 03:11 AM

and oggie exposes the ringleaders of the masonic conspiracy to rule the world. outstanding work.

deaconjim · #53 07/26/11, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

It is when it has many written references, and my Original question was answered. Confirmed with my external research and the help of some users in this thread. The conclusion is Mormonisim has much similarities, perhaps more than any other religion to the Order. The markings on the garments are indeed of Masonic origins, nothing to do with Christianity. As a Bible Christian that is a very important thing, and I can witness for Christ.

I can see where that would make the internet a more reliable source than first hand experience. Carry on.

Heritagefarm · #54 07/26/11, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VERN in IL

It is when it has many written references

Actually, that doesn't prove anything, either, unless the references are reliable.

Callieslamb · #55 07/26/11, 09:08 AM

Vern - I have tried to stay out of this but since you have decided to make some assumptions, I will do my best to reply to your Joseph Fort Newton quote. I know very little about the Masons...I haven't read all the comments in this thread because of your intent. However, some things need to be addressed to keep the record clear of what the LDS church teaches.

1. Source of Authority. Masons refer to the Bible as the "Volume of the Sacred Law" (V.S.L.), and it is considered an indispensable part of what is called "the furniture" in a Masonic Lodge. But the Bible is used only in a so-called "Christian" lodge -- ---------

I am not sure the point you are making with this. Is it perhaps that Mormons do not use the Bible? You are wrong there. We do believe and use the Bible.
We do not believe that the tribe of Judah is the only people the Lord had interest in. our SS classes rotate through all our books of scripture with all getting as much attention as any of the others. We do belive in the Book of Mormon as another witness of Christ and when the 10 tribes are gathered - we believe their records will be brought forth also for us to study.

At the heart of Masonry is a secret Luciferian doctrine which a Mason only comes to understand as he reaches the higher levels. Manly Palmer Hall, another of the great authorities on Masonry, writes, "When the Mason ... has learned the mystery of his Craft, the seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands. ..." (Manly Palmer Hall, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, p. 48). The Apostle John warned that those who deny that Jesus is the only, all sufficient Christ, and that He came once and for all in the flesh, have embraced the spirit of Antichrist (1 Jn. 4:1-3). .................

Not sure what this has to do with any doctrine of the LDS church either. Are you saying that those LDS members that attend the temple think they are 'higher' than people that don't? .

4. Sin. Sin is seldom referred to in Masonic literature. The reality of sin in the Biblical sense is denied (much like the Christian Scientists); Masons think that any "shortcomings" can be overcome by greater enlightenment. Yet in attaining the degree of Master Mason, the symbolism implies that a person is redeemed from the death of sin and sin's pollution. [HJB]

Not sure about this one either. We do believe there is sin and that each of us is very likely to commit it. Greater knowledge doesn't release us from sin- only Christ can do that. In fact, since NO one can live a perfect life, that is why Christ - a Savior - was provided for us. If it weren't for Christ, not a one of us would have a chance.... so what's your point here? We do believe that knowledge is a good thing and we each need to learn as much as we can during our lives. But just knowing stuff doesn't get us anywhere.

5. Salvation and Future Life. Masons think that salvation refers to being brought from the material to the spiritual; i.e., when man returns to "his forgotten inherent spirituality." Masons believe that the degree of Master Mason is symbolical of old age, which allows a person to happily reflect on a well-spent life and to "die in the hope of a glorious immortality." Because they deny the reality of sin, Masons see no need of salvation in the Biblical sense. They see salvation as a step-by-step enlightenment, which comes through initiation into the Masonic degrees and their mysteries. [HJB]

In the 19th degree of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, the initiate is told that attachment to Masonry's "statutes and rules of the order" will make him "deserving of entering the celestial Jerusalem [heaven]." In the 28th degree, he is told that "the true Mason [is one] who raises himself by degrees till he reaches heaven" and that one of his duties is "To divest [him]self of original sin ..." Masons clearly teach a salvation by works, or character development, not a salvation by faith in Christ alone. .

Mormon doctrine does NOT teach that we do not need Christ. Nor does it teach that we are saved by our works. We do believe that we have to keep the commandments that Christ gave to us. This is our "work". We believe that the Atonement of Christ will not be in effect for those that deny Him and his teachings. Therefore, we teach to do as He said. We believe that a real faith, changes a person. It inspires them to act. If I have faith that Christ will answer my prayers - I will pray. But to insinuate the the LDS faith teaches that we gain salvation by our own hands is ridiculous. None of us can do that. In the end, we will all be found wanting - no matter how good of a life we lived or how much we served or learned or accomplished. We will all need the mercy and grace of Christ to gain our Salvation. I realize that others teach that there is nothing that we have to do...that is only our faith that saves us. I feel that this is more a definition issue than a doctrinal issue. In the end, that is very true. But in the mean time, we believe that we should live the principles directed to us in the Bible,the Book of Mormon and the directions that we are given by the prophet of our church today. It is by doing the things Christ asked of us that our faith in Him grows and is strengthened. Our faith will help us avoid sin but it will not save us.

We do believe that there will be a difference in the portion of the Lord's kingdom that say a murder, thief, child abuser, etc will receive compared to a person that led a very moral, upright life and kept the commandments of God, etc. I am not sure what other churches teach, but we do not believe that the heaven and hell spoken of in the Bible are the end. They are temporary until the final judgement. At that time, we will each be given a portion of God's kingdom. Maybe this is what you are referring to? I do agree that it's a difference in doctrines...but not sure what it has to do with Masons.

There is one connection that I haven't seen you make in all your research. I will mention it for you to mull around with.

Perhaps the similarities that you see between Masons and the LDS church are because they began with the same thing. Over time, the masons teachings changed. And with the Mormons - it was RESTORED to what it once was. There are also similarities between LDS teachings and muslim teachings....as well as Catholic....and Baptists...and Methodists...and Lutherans....and pretty much all of them out there. Most people bent on discrediting the LDS church pick the Masons to reflect upon.

Knowing what I know of LDS doctrine, I'm just not seeing the similarities you are trying to present. Your Newton quote doesn't put any light on it for me either.

Here's a little scripture we use fairly often. It's from the Book of Mormon, so I don't expect it will affect you much.

2 Nephi 9:28-29
28 O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the blindness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

29 But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the ccounsels of God.

Sometimes, trying to prove things intellectually doesn't work. There are things beyond the intellect that can't be grasped by logic and reason alone. It takes the help of the Lord to find our way to through all the muck.