Feds state all kids, legal or not, entitled to school

Prismseed · #21 05/08/11, 02:08 AM

What are you gonna do about it?

shanzone2001 · #22 05/08/11, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows

Sigh. So the feds say the local schools have to enroll the illegal students. Then if they don't speak English well enough, they have to hire special teachers just for them. Likely they are low income families, so they will qualify for free lunches, most schools have a breakfast program, too.

Exactly. Also, many of these children receive special services such as speech and resource.

Laura- you are absolutely correct that the parents would come up with the money to feed them. I am disgusted by the amount of free food that is thrown in the trash every day at my school. The kids don't appreciate it and are trained to expect free food.

Laura Zone 10 · #23 05/08/11, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanzone2001

Exactly. Also, many of these children receive special services such as speech and resource.

Laura- you are absolutely correct that the parents would come up with the money to feed them. I am disgusted by the amount of free food that is thrown in the trash every day at my school. The kids don't appreciate it and are trained to expect free food.

Here's the sad part.
They throw it away because that is what is role modeled for them.
They are not taught any sort of work ethic and appreciation for "where food comes from"......so if it's not 'chicken nuggets and french fries" they pitch it.
THATS what kids are raised on now......McDonalds fake food.

And everyone wonders why Autism, ADD, and so many other food allergies are at a high so high you can't count them.
Kids who were raised on Mc Carpols..and artificial sweeteners..are now having kids, and raising those kids on the same chemical laden junk. And it's ruining their brains.....literally.

willow_girl · #24 05/08/11, 09:20 AM

Quote:

I like the idea of fines and debtor's prisons and chain gangs or some sort of indentured servitude to ensure that illegals pay the same amount of tax for schools as citizens.

I realize things might be different elsewhere, but at least where I live, schools are funded primarily by property taxes. So unless they're living under a bridge or in a hut made of sticks, an illegal person is paying the same as the next renter.

I'm a pragmatist. While I suppose it sounds nice to some to deny these children an education, consider the logical consequences. A child who has been raised in America, and who knows nothing but American life, probably is going to seek to stay in America. Barring some INS intervention, they're going to be with us for awhile, perhaps permanently. Would it be better for them to receive at least a rudimentary education, and be able to function in some productive capacity, or to be illiterate? Who is going to require more in the way of government services (welfare, prisons) over the long run?

mama2littleman · #25 05/08/11, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

I realize things might be different elsewhere, but at least where I live, schools are funded primarily by property taxes. So unless they're living under a bridge or in a hut made of sticks, an illegal person is paying the same as the next renter.

You're in Upstate NY, or there abouts? Chances are that it works that way there. Near the border it is a completely different situation.

I am PERSONALLY (not friemd of a friend stuff, or my cousin's boyfriend told me) aware of one incident in the school district I used to teach in. Right on the border with Juarez.

A woman who lived in the school district was the "Legal Guardian" for 7 different children whose parents lived in Mexico. Since she was their legal guardian, they could be registered in the school.

Nikki

Kiamichi Kid · #26 05/08/11, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willow_girl

I realize things might be different elsewhere, but at least where I live, schools are funded primarily by property taxes. So unless they're living under a bridge or in a hut made of sticks, an illegal person is paying the same as the next renter.

I'm a pragmatist. While I suppose it sounds nice to some to deny these children an education, consider the logical consequences. A child who has been raised in America, and who knows nothing but American life, probably is going to seek to stay in America. Barring some INS intervention, they're going to be with us for awhile, perhaps permanently. Would it be better for them to receive at least a rudimentary education, and be able to function in some productive capacity, or to be illiterate? Who is going to require more in the way of government services (welfare, prisons) over the long run?

They don't need an education to do the job's bleeding hearts say Americans wont do! Oh... but look around...they never keep doing those jobs...they march in the streets and demand something more...and more..and more and more! Demanding that they have a bigger piece of the pie..."That they did NOT pay for"
This nation is being bankrupted by greedy politicians,big business and illegals.Every one of them needs to get whats coming to them.

We should activate every national guard unit and hunt down every illegal in this country.I doesn't matter if they are mexicans,somalis or blue eyed swedes...they all gotta go!!!

IMContrary · #27 05/08/11, 11:37 AM

You realize that many illegal folks are paying taxes. If they are working, unless they are paid under the table, they are having funds held back from their earnings that go into the tax pot. Every illegal person I've known was working at a job and had taxes withheld.

Nevada · #28 05/08/11, 11:39 AM

I suspect that states can bill the federal government for educating aliens. By law, the federal government can't compel states to do things that cost money without funding them.

DJ in WA · #29 05/08/11, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonRiver

One more thing for the Republicans to fix when they take back the Senate and the Presidency. I believe this can be overturned by Congress. Or possibly, this can be run through the courts again.

The ruling occurred in 1982 - seems the Republicans have had a few chances since then. Maybe Bush's No Child Left Behind and doubling the Dept of Education was an attempted fix?

The problem with certain “rights” is they depend on violating the rights of others.

Yes, now I have a right to have someone else pay for me to have a baby, then they can pay for it’s food, housing, healthcare and education. There are no limits. And someone who cannot have children has the “right” to pay for those that can. No right to keep your own money – if you refuse to pay for others’ rights, someone with a gun will come and put you in prison.

Speaking of laws, there used to be a thing called the Constitution which put limits on what the federal government can do. But we found ways to weasel around it as the article below explains. We’ve learned to let the feds run everything because they have an unlimited supply of money that can be printed for them by the central bank (Federal Reserve). Take their money and you have to follow their rules.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/p...w/article/6956

Quote:

The enumerated powers of the federal government to spend money are defined in the Constitution under Article I, Section 8. These powers include the right to "establish Post Offices and post roads; raise and support Armies; provide and maintain a Navy; declare War;" and other activities related mostly to national defense.

No matter how long one searches through the Constitution, it is impossible to find any language that authorizes at least 90 percent of the civilian programs that Congress crams into the federal budget today.

There is no granting of authority for the federal government to pay money to farmers, run the health-care industry, impose wage and price controls, give welfare to the poor and unemployed, provide job training, subsidize electricity and telephone service, lend money to businesses or foreign governments, or build parking garages, tennis courts, and swimming pools. The Founders did not create a Department of Commerce, a Department of Education, or a Department of Housing and Urban Development. This was no oversight: they simply never imagined that government would take an active role in such activities.

Recognizing the propensity of governments to expand, and, as Jefferson put it, for "liberty to yield," the Framers added the Bill of Rights as an extra layer of protection of the rights of individuals against the state. The Bill of Rights was inserted to ensure that government would never grow so large that it could trample on the individual and economic liberties of American citizens. The 10th Amendment to the Constitution states the Founders `intentions quite clearly and unambiguously: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution...are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Such plain language would not seem to be easy to misinterpret. Put simply, if the Constitution doesn't specifically permit the federal government to do something, then it doesn't have the right to do it.

Kiamichi Kid · #30 05/08/11, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevada

I suspect that states can bill the federal government for educating aliens. By law, the federal government can't compel states to do things that cost money without funding them.

The money still comes from the pocket of US citizens

Kiamichi Kid · #31 05/08/11, 03:37 PM

[QUOTE=IMContrary;5119352]You realize that many illegal folks are paying taxes. If they are working, unless they are paid under the table, they are having funds held back from their earnings that go into the tax pot. Every illegal person I've known was working at a job and had taxes withheld.[/QUOTE]

Most of the illegals I've been around (and thats plenty) work under the table...
I could really care less if they all paid twice as much as the average American citizen...they still don't belong here !!!!! Thay are still criminals..and they must go !!!
Any job they are doing is a job than CAN and WILL be done by an American..Pay a LIVING WAGE..THAT'S ALL IT TAKES.

Win07_351 · #32 05/08/11, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wwubben

Give me a book,chapter and verse please.

Well, the main verse would be "Thou Shall Not Steal". Taking money or seizing property from somebody at the threat of gunpoint if they don't (or can't pay) to educate another mans children is stealing. Where I live about 75% of the property taxes collected go to the schools. Taxing an 80 year old widow for example to pay for the education of someone elses children is not only immoral, but unbiblical as well. Many people have to eventually sell their property because they can no longer afford the taxes. That is stealing their land. Many people who don't even have children are taxed heavily for the schools. Many of those school dollars go for pensions for the teachers and to teachers unions (another un Biblical concept).

Parents are responsible to God for their own children and that also includes their education and training (Prov.22:6)

poppy · #33 05/08/11, 09:29 PM

I can't see the illegals are gaining much. Just read that in Detroit 47% of adults are illiterate and half of those have either a HS diploma or a GED. How does one get either of those while being illiterate? BTW, Detroit spends $13,000 per year per child to educate them. That is $3,000 above the national average.

willow_girl · #34 05/08/11, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Well, the main verse would be "Thou Shall Not Steal". Taking money or seizing property from somebody at the threat of gunpoint if they don't (or can't pay) to educate another mans children is stealing. Where I live about 75% of the property taxes collected go to the schools. Taxing an 80 year old widow for example to pay for the education of someone elses children is not only immoral, but unbiblical as well. Many people have to eventually sell their property because they can no longer afford the taxes. That is stealing their land. Many people who don't even have children are taxed heavily for the schools. Many of those school dollars go for pensions for the teachers and to teachers unions (another un Biblical concept).

Parents are responsible to God for their own children and that also includes their education and training (Prov.22:6)

Hey, maybe we could be like the Democratic Republic of Congo!

Quote:

In 1995 the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) repealed its congressional promise of free public education and instated tuition fees. This caused many children in disadvantaged areas to drop out. As of 2006 less than half of the DRC's school age children actually attended school.

or Nepal!

Quote:

Nepal is one of the 189 nations to sign the Education for All promise in 2000, but has not yet been able provide universal free education. In 2008 Nepal's adult literacy rate was at 56 percent, but 72 percent of those literate citizens lived in privileged urban areas. Meanwhile, only 51 percent of children in impoverished regions attended school compared to 87 from wealthier areas where families were able to afford tuition rates.

Chad is another example to which we can aspire.

Quote:

Despite Chad's constitutional promise of universal free education, local communities support 15 percent of the nation's schools, while parents fund 70 percent of their child's educational costs. As a result more than 90 percent of Chad's population is illiterate and schools are associated with wealth and privilege.

Or, perhaps, the Sudan:

Quote:

In 2001 Sudan attempted to institute free education, but there are no records to indicate the success of this measure due to the 2003 outbreak of civil war. Until the 2001 promise to eliminate tuition more than 50 percent of the nation's education budget was funded by school fees. Since the 2004 peace treaty humanitarian and peacekeeping measures have worked to reinstate Sudan's public schools, but the effort is neither government funded nor widespread. In 2006 less than half of school age children in Sudan attended school.

Lovely nations all. Wouldn't you want to live there? No? I can't imagine why not ...

(Source: http://www.ehow.com/info_7929179_cou...education.html )

arabian knight · #35 05/08/11, 10:06 PM

Ya so what that still doesn't mean that Illegals should get free educated now does it?
What part of Illegal do some not understand in this thread? They do NOT deserve to be in this country Period. Kick them out along with the parents.

Sonshine · #36 05/08/11, 10:42 PM

Everyone in government knows we have a problem with illegals, yet they do everything they can to encourage it.

snoozy · #37 05/09/11, 10:37 AM

Actually, the problem is with the employers who employ illegal aliens. When they stop employing them, are you going to be happy to pay higher fruit and vegetable prices? (Right, this is a homesteading board...I already anticipate the smug "I grow my own everything" retort.) Are you going to be happy to pay the higher wages of the American tradesmen? Are you REALLY??

Because that would be the reality. Whichever side of the INS problem you think you're on, this is what we all will have to do.

Although, mind you, I was shocked to find out that current hourly wage (not counting tips) for waitresses in east Texas is $2.15 an hour. Blew my mind. Why leave Mexico for wages like that??

Home Harvest · #38 05/09/11, 02:38 PM

Illegal immigration is only a problem because of our welfare state. Eliminate all government handouts & the problem will take care of itself. An immigrant (or citizen) who wishes to work hard to improve his life should be welcomed with open arms, and encouraged to stay. Those suckling at the government teat will go looking for greener pastures.

Regarding education, I'm not sure we're doing our children any favors sending them through the system in place today. The entire public education model should be examined.

Teachers are not the problem (I've known too many good teachers to believe that), but they are forced to work under rediculous rules that inhibit their ability to teach. For example, my son spent most of 10th grade being taught how to pass the mandatory state testing. The state money is allocated to schools based on the test results of their students, so rather than teach them anything useful, they are taught test taking strategies.

Kiamichi Kid · #39 05/09/11, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snoozy

Actually, the problem is with the employers who employ illegal aliens. When they stop employing them, are you going to be happy to pay higher fruit and vegetable prices? (Right, this is a homesteading board...I already anticipate the smug "I grow my own everything" retort.) Are you going to be happy to pay the higher wages of the American tradesmen? Are you REALLY??

Because that would be the reality. Whichever side of the INS problem you think you're on, this is what we all will have to do.

Although, mind you, I was shocked to find out that current hourly wage (not counting tips) for waitresses in east Texas is $2.15 an hour. Blew my mind. Why leave Mexico for wages like that??

Any increase in labor cost will be more than offset by the savings in social programs and the cost of housing tens of thousands of illegal criminals in our jails and prisons...plus there will be jobs for people that dont have them now....if ya don't have a job now ya cant afford any of this "cheap stuff" now can ya?

shanzone2001 · #40 05/09/11, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poppy

I can't see the illegals are gaining much. Just read that in Detroit 47% of adults are illiterate and half of those have either a HS diploma or a GED. How does one get either of those while being illiterate? BTW, Detroit spends $13,000 per year per child to educate them. That is $3,000 above the national average.

Detroit is prodominately black and they are American citizens. That is a whole 'nother can of worms! The school systems in other parts of the country are much better, especially the more rural schools that illegal migrant children attend.