How is your aim?

None of the sources that came up on the first page mentioned the type of ammo they produced.

They did say one of the plants was 66 years old

Demand for certain calibers is much higher for some than for others

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This soldier knew how to aim his 40mm grenade to save some ammo. Warning its a bit graphic.

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I don't think so with the weapons and tactics of the time. Thousands of men were killed by machine-gun fire as they went "over the top" side by side and shoulder to shoulder. A single shooter with a bolt action rifle could not come close to killing as many people as a single machine-gun in a situation like that. When you add up the hundreds of machine-gun firing across the line of an assault it just don't make sense.

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Most of the rounds fired in full auto mode don't hit their target.

A single AIMED shot from a bolt action is far more likely to be on target

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And by easier, you mean CHEAPER. This trend of outsourcing our military production to foreigners is troubling. Thats OUR money, being sent to give some clown in Isreal a job, while the guy in Detroit is out of luck cause its EASIER to outsource. In an emergency, I can see allowing LIMITED outsourcing, but as POLICY, it is downright unpatriotic.

Basically what we were told and I believe is that the fear and confusion created by the sound of automatic fire, was and is phenomenal. The first aimed bullet hit the mark, the rest are fear makers. However now of days their are weapons that can stay on target on full auto. A new 400 round per 40 seconds?, fully auto 12 Gage. I believe they said. R Lee Ermi held it on target the entire 400 rounds, and others they have reduces the recoil and barrel climb to nil. along with smart rounds that fire out of a computerized weapon that reads distance, and automatically programs rounds to explode at arrival. Inside a room with 6 men sitting around a table, all of the sudden explosive rounds activate one after another a couple feet from their faces. Another group of men sitting around a picnic table in the back yard with a high privacy fence, yet they are being watched from the air, from a predator unmanned aerial vehicle, 5 miles away, unheard or seen, Which were illegal to use to engage the enemy until Bush wrote a Presidential order, it was only legal to engage an enemy with a manned vehicle, and illegal to use unmanned to to injure another soldier. Against the rules of war to use unmanned vehicles to fight. eliminating the fear of robot soldiers indiscriminately killing without moral judgment.

As far as rounds fired fully auto and single fire ratio????? You can see some old films of machine guns shooting at airplanes approaching, and literally millions of rounds in the air, but 100 sharpshooters equal all machine gun kills, we'll never know, but dad always said a book will lay there and let you write anything in it, but that doesn't make it true. It sounds rather fairytailish, but probably more true that it sounds like. It sure didn't take many to kill several hundred million Buffalo in a couple years. just an opinion, best wishes, ray

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Ray

No, I mean what I actually said, as always

It's easier to get it NOW without taking time to build and tool up more capacity in existing factories.

The need is NOW, and Isreal can supply it NOW

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True but has very little to do with the situation we are talking about.

Say there are 1000 men coming at you in ranks almost shoulder to shoulder and several ranks deep along a small front. You have a 03A3 Springfield with a rate of fire of 15 rds/min. If it takes 15 minutes for the troops to move across the line AND every round you fire hits you could hit 225 men.

Now say you had an M1917 machine gun firing 500 rds/min. That means in the 15 minutes you would fire 7500 rounds. If just 3% of your rounds hit you'd still stop the same 225 men as the 03A3. With the troops grouped together like that you are going to have a better hit to round ratio than 3 to 100.

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Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!

Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett

In that scenario a full auto has an advantage, but that has not been a battle tactic since the Korean War

I think that's underestimating it a bit

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The time has come that a truck and trailer of ammo must follow each soldier. He sprays and prays and moves on.....................

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Remember we are specifically talking about WWI here.



I didn't link the site (wikipedia?) but I googled it. To be honest with you to me it sounds a bit HIGH for sustained aimed fire from an 03A3. I'd say it would be tough to fire 150 aimed rounds in 15 minutes.

Think about it, you have to acquire your target, hold on target until you fire then switch targets. On top of that you can only fire 5 rounds before you have to reload and reloading an 03A3 Springfield isn't like switching magazines on an M16.

To reload you have to: remove the weapon from your shoulder, find a stripper clip, place it on the weapon, push 5 new rounds into the magazine, remove the clip, return to firing position before you can fire the next 5 rounds. All that is going to take time.

__________________
Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!

Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett

I would have thought the topic was the effectiveness of full auto vs aimed fire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1903_Springfield

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We are but we are talking specifically about WWI and an old book which suggested 100 shooters could have equaled all the kills of machine guns.

Read post #19 and #23.



If you look you will see the rate of fire listed as 15 rds/min. Again I find it hard to believe you could fire 15 aimed rounds per minute for 15 minutes but because it is what I found its what I used. I also picked 15 minutes at random. I don't know how long it took between the time a trooper went "over the top" until he hit the opposing trench.

__________________
Remember, when seconds count. . .
the police are just MINUTES away!

Congress has no power to appropriate this money as an act of charity. Every member upon this floor knows it. . .Davy Crockett