More than 60% of ultra-orthodox Israeli men do not work

They don't spend all their time in introspection. The article says they try to have at least 8 kids. Much of their time is spent in bed.

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Dear Math, it is time you grew up and solved your own problems.

I disagree with this. There is a very long Christian tradition of providing for those seeking to live the contemplative live, and in turn Christianity has benefitted from their existence.

Mt. Athos, for example, in Greece is an autonomous political entity and has survived since the ealry days of Christianity. It has also produced some of the great masterpieces of Christian thought.

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"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist"- Archbishop Camara

The Mad Luddite

Odd how some oppose this when it is a foriegn country (and religous connotation) but support it when it is "baby-daddies"

Just sayin'

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Roger

willow girl, part of the offerings and certain produce and animals were ordered to be given to the preists so they could eat. But those preists were supposed to take care of the temple and minister to the people. Seems like all these guys are serving is their physical lust and earthly desires, IMO.

Riverdale, from where do you draw your conclusion that I support "baby-daddies" being allowed to draw welfare instead of getting off their rear ends and finding a job or picking up aluminum cans along the roadway? My opinion is that if you can't support a baby, don't make one. Religion has nothing to do with this, this is just people wanting to get out of having to serve their country or working to support themselves or their families.

ETA, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell and Henry Ford changed the world but never relied on others to support them after they became adults.

.................Mastering the languages of biblicial times , absorbing the tremendous volume of historical information and then being able too interpret the origional script takes a brilliant mind and special kind of dedication that only the very gifted and dedicated possess . Supporting the very gifted among a group is worthwhile , conveying the same benefits too the group in toto , isn't . The majority can all dress , act and mime those gifted amongst the group but they all know they're just play acting and don't deserve too be included for special consideration ! , fordy

It's probably going to be very hard to get the ultra-orthodox to change their way of life. They get their living expenses paid and they're excempt from military service. That would be attractive to a lot of people, especially in a country that's so frequently at war. There's also the poor situation on the job market these days. As this denomination takes up 10% of Israel's population, they're also probably a strong voting group. Still, they shouldn't be having so many children if they don't plan on ever being able to support them themselves.

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Economical College Alternatives

It seems to me that since very early in human history, there has been a clerical class that lives off the productivity of those that labour. Once we got past absolute monarchies as a form of government, this "idle" clerical class required the consent of their congregations - i.e. they have to provide spiritual services which working people value in order to eat.

I think this is a good arrangement, and we have provided tax exemption for churches as a public policy support for this.

I think what this example in Israel demonstrates, is that when you lose separation of church and state, you risk having the clerical class able to exist with less reliance on their congregations, and more reliance on the government. When you consider the political dynamic, it insulates them from accountability to both congregation and government.

I don't imagine this is a problem unique to Israel, I can imagine there are similar difficulties in countries with established state religions (such as Iran).

That is fine as long as they are supported through the voluntary contributions of fellow believers, rather than the involuntary contributions of unwilling tax payers.

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Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

I always said there would be peace in the ME if the Israelis actually had to PAY for
their standard of living! Average American has no idea that their tax dollars are basically
making it where the avg Israeli citizen doesn't pay a dime toward their own military ;-(
If they had to pay for it, there standard of living would plummet (as ours) and they
wouldn't stand for it.
jim

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"These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people..."
Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837

Just to let you know the orthodox jews that I see during the course of my day at work in the emergency room, are using medicaid because they don't "work". They don't pay taxes - something about their religion, they send their kids to jewish schools - I am uncertain of the funding for these schools, but I do know that the tax payers have to pay for their busing, and since their kids go to school six days a week and on Sunday property taxes are some of the highest in the area.

I don't live in the town I work in but wow, I hear alot of complaints, especially about how they are a financial burden on the community.

I am also told that the orthodox jews are just a small segment of the jewish population - 10%, and that mainstream jews think they are strange.

You really should do at least some research that isn't on a white supremacist or neo-nazi website before you start spouting off on things you obviously know nothing about.

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Wags Ranch Nigerians


"The Constitution says to promote the general welfare, not to provide welfare!" ~ Lt. Col Allen West

Apparently I must know more than you. Israelis have a pretty high standard
of living, and some say it is even higher than ours. Regardless, it is heavily
subsidized by the American taxpayer! Not racist, or anti-semitic, just a FACT.

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"These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people..."
Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837

Wouldnt that come under "Ask and ye shall receive"? Or the parable that says to not worry where your next meal comes from because God takes care of the least sparrow and He will take care of you too?


Yes I know that is the New Testament, but Tinknal did not make a distinction there

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Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

History of U.S. financial aid to Israel:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...reign_aid.html

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Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

It appears that the impact of US aid to Israel equals about $14,000 per Israeli citizen.

Quite independently of what one thinks about whether Israel is protecting vital US interests in the region, and whether this is good value for the money, it is pretty clear that in the absence of that aid, Israel would have 2 choices:

a) increase taxation on their own citizenry with a corresponding reduction in disposable income/standard of living, or

b) reduce military spending dramatically.

http://www.wrmea.org/special-topics/...to-israel.html

All the sparrows I know are out hustling.

2 Thessalonians 3:7-10

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life's a holiday

People hear what they want to hear, and believe what they want to believe.

Apparently you don't know diddly or you wouldn't keep spewing such ridiculous falsehoods.

The average standard of living in the US is higher, which is why so many American Jews have a hard time transitioning to living there and end up coming back to the US. The cost of goods is so much higher that the standard joke is much like the joke here about farming. How do you make small fortune in Israel? Come with a large one.

While Israel's government does receive a lot of aid from the US that doesn't translate into a higher standard of living for the average Israeli. If it did there wouldn't be such a problem with homelessness there.

I don't get the "outrage" over how Israel spends their aid money when we are giving aid to countries that could never be considered a "friend" to the US?

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Wags Ranch Nigerians


"The Constitution says to promote the general welfare, not to provide welfare!" ~ Lt. Col Allen West

Sounds like the women need to get with the program and get to work.

I don't know if the standard of living is greater than the US or not, but it is better than most countries, particularly in that region:

from the link I posted earlier.

And Israel has Universal Healthcare thanks to us as well...

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"These capitalists generally act harmoniously and in concert, to fleece the people..."
Abraham Lincoln, from his first speech as an Illinois state legislator, 1837