Unease grows over the future of pell Grants

Darn. Guess I paid for summer school for nothing. I thought my daughter couldn't graduate without passing Biology, too bad I didn't know No Child Left Behind would have allowed her to slide through.

First of all Pell is not paid to the school. TAP is tuition assistance program. Your tuition, lab fees and ins is figured and your Pell and TAP credited and anything left over is yours. People here end up with well over $2000.00 every 6 months in their pockets. Pell is for living expenses. At least that is how it works in NY.

I would say that a woman who has children she can't support has made a poor choice, and thus giving her a grant because of it is rewarding her for her poor choice.

Again, I acknowledge that it's probably preferable to maintaining her on welfare indefinitely.

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"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

An educated population benefits the nations economy. It's one of the best investments we can make in this country.

Higher education should be free for all American citizens.

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"Do you believe in the devil? You know, a supreme evil being dedicated to the temptation, corruption, and destruction of man?" Hobbs
"I'm not sure that man needs the help." Calvin

First I've heard of TAP. Exactly how many taxpayer funded programs to pay for college are there these days?

Then I guess you don't know everything. There are women that have had their husbands up and leave them after years of what they thought was a stable marriage. There are women that left their husbands after years of abuse. There are MEN that have had their wives leave them with the children, etc.

You seem to think that all women with children that get grants, are just welfare mothers that sleep around. Thats nice for you to try to fit everyone into that lump but it isnt that way.

What about the women WITHOUT children that get pell grants? What about the MEN with pell grants?

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Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

Pell is not for living expenses. Pell is a FEDERAL grant paid directly to the school. a PERKINS loan can be for living expenses and they have to be paid back. A Pell grant does not. the SCHOOL can disburse funds but the Pell program does not, and it is not meant for living expenses

__________________
Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

There are also state grants. I get something from the state of Indiana too. I think the TAP thing must be a NY state program. I get a Pell grant, a state of Indiana grant, a couple different scholarships. They are all lumped together, they take out my tuition and fees and refund whatever is left over back to me. This helps with books but doesn't usually cover them.

Let me go get the exact amounts..this is for one semester:

Tuition and fees $3910
Pell Grant -2775
Indiana Award -1565

Difference $430


If I need more money, I can take out a Stafford loan. I have to go fill out the paperwork for that and it takes a week for the money to go into my account. If I don't need anymore money, I do not have to take the loans and I usually don't.

I have not figured up my books for next semester yet, but I reasonably sure they will be more than $430. They are typically around $600 with some semesters being up to $1000. Yes, I shop for the cheapest books I can find, but always buy them. I have seen students try to get by without them and they usually don't do very well in class.

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...to be a rock and not to roll...

As with healthcare, there is no free education. Someone will have to pay for it. I'm sure you know you can freeze to death without a coat. A society with lots of frozen dead citizens does not benefit us. Should coats be free to all Americans? Unless you brush your teeth, they will rot and fall out? People without teeth talk funny, so everyone having good teeth bebefits society. Should we provide free tooth brushes to all Americans? We have heard how great investing in education is for decades now and we have invested trillions over the years. It doesn't seem to be paying off too well.

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Dear Math, it is time you grew up and solved your own problems.

TAP is a NY state only program, as far as I know.

I think it's foolish to have children that you, personally, cannot support without assistance. In a country with a something approaching a 50 percent divorce rate (among the couples that even bother to marry!) it is unwise to count on the long-term support of a partner. JMO.

For the record, I have no problem with sleeping around. I have done a fair amount of it myself, and found it highly enjoyable. It's the production of children I object to, unless the parent can support them without help from Uncle Sam.

From personal experience, I'd guess that it's difficult to qualify without dependents, as the formula takes household size into account. I know I was earning around minimum wage, or barely above it, and didn't meet the income guidelines, but I was single and without dependents. Of course, it's been many years, so perhaps things have changed.

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"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

How are we going to compete globally with all of these educated people? We need more dropouts so we can have a low wage workforce with a shorter lifespan. You have to look at the big picture.

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"Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self confidence"
Robert Frost

When some people marry, they think it will be for life. Perhaps being on your fourth husband, thats not something you can understand? I didn't think I would end up being a single mom at 45. I suppose widows and widowers shouldn't have had kids either, since they maybe thought their spouse would be there forever


Well good for you. I'm happy for you.
Im not sure what your point is since I wasnt interested in your mating habits. I know you dont want children, but some people do.

__________________
Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

And smart people will obtain the requisite job skills to support them BEFORE bringing the li'l darlings into the world!

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"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

My brother received one of these many years ago, along with some scholarships. He is now a phd and teaches college. My daughter received one, also with scholarships. She is bright, fun, funny, clean, sober, happy, healthy, beautiful. She is an excellent student--and no ones' mother. She is studying nursing.


Demeter

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"I think, therefore I am. I think."--George Carlin

And a whole lot of them DO. You don't know what life is going to bring you. Im sorry you can't see that.

__________________
Recognize the beauty in things, in creation, even when thats difficult to do.
Be loving, show compassion. Create while we're here.
Enjoy this life, be in this life but not be of it.

Of all the taxes I pay - Pell Grants are one that I am happy to say I support though on our income, our kids did not qualify. It may not be a perfect program. People will take advantage of it. Some will waste it. That isn't so different than any other Govt program. Pell Grants support any higher education - even skilled labor. I think it's great. I hope they can keep the program alive. I would love to see them do some better screening of grantees and follow-ups on their grades. I would have no problem sending a 2nd grant only to those that maintain a certain GPA.

We had a young girl live with us for her last 2 yrs of HS. She was from desperate circumstances. She did poorly in HS. She did get to attend the local community college - HS class repeats at first, funded by a program to help AA girls. Once she got her act together and understood what life was about - she finished an Assoc Degree and is now pursuing her bachelors. She has to go very slowly due to supporting herself. But she is making it. The first ever in her family to graduate HS let alone college. She is not a teenage birth nor a single mom statistic. She's doing it. I will gladly see 3 people waste their opportunity to see one succeed.

what about adult students that don't have any other choice.....

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to know and not to do is not to know

Because, of course, no one can be expected to consider the divorce rate in this country and how they would ever support their children if their spouse proved unreliable, BEFORE they embark on making babies. It's completely unrealistic to expect that ... we all know people can't control their irresistible urges to procreate.

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"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

Why don't they have a choice? They always have a choice. What makes you think they have to go to college to earn a decent living? Learn all you can about something that interests you by reading, talking to people, etc. and start your own business. In this service economy, working for yourself is the best way to earn a living. There are people earning big money just mowing yards. Plumbing, electrical, carpentry, making cabinets, hanging wallpaper, making drapes, heating and cooling, landscaping, etc. all pay really well and are in demand. You can always find a low paying job somewhere until you get your business built up a bit. If you are honest and willing to work hard, you will come out ahead considering the time lost and expense of going back to school.

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Dear Math, it is time you grew up and solved your own problems.