Military or Federal Employee; Why the Hate?

ChristyACB · #61 11/18/10, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyDay

Maybe later in the 80s. I left Europe in '82, then went back from '90-'94. Medical always called me to donate my O- blood. Maybe the need for O- (which anyone can use) was higher priority than the chance of me carrying Mad Cow.

It was fairly early and then another stint later. I'm not allowed anymore and I lived in Germany in the late 70's and early 80's. Not everyplace actually asks about it anymore but if you volunteer the information you might get rejected. There are some other places too with other time frames but those are pretty rare.

Sonshine · #62 11/18/10, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristyACB

Good grief..what century are you looking at? It is increasingly competitive. No more can you be given the choice of military or jail. ASVAB scores are higher in initial requirements. No more GED unless a serious waiver that shows college or something like that. No tattoos that can't be covered with a hand...in total...in visible spots. Anything in the extensive "bad tattoo" database automatically bans you forever. Even if you try to get it erased and come back, you're in the records and it would be hard to persuade them. Again with a personal waiver. You can't have even the most minor stuff in your record. Etc and etc. It is harder to get in the military than ever. It got a bit easier when there was a big deficit in troops on the ground since they had to double their number fast, but even that is over and that was only in Army ground.

No one expects kow tow'ing. But you'd have to come and take a tiger cruise or read a diary of just a regular sailor who did a regular deployment to get an idea of what they go through. At sea you never get off work, I often worked 20 hour days....for weeks at a time and then felt like I'd got vacation if I got 12 hours off to sleep. Had watch port and starboard on the bridge during 20 foot seas for a few days while I had the Turkish Revenge...everyone else was down with it. And that is just a normal day for loads of others too..nothing at all special. You have to be there to appreciate the vast difference between what they do on a daily basis and what an "employee" does when they punch the clock.

It's actually really insulting when people say stuff like what you say. Sort of snotty, mean, bitter and just...nasty. You're the sort I was talking about in my original post. That look you have on your face right now..yes, that one...is the one I really don't like my sailors to see when they get off an 18 hour shift and stop for milk on the way home. Yet people like you still do it.

Very well said. Thank you.

Sawmill Jim · #63 11/18/10, 06:38 PM

Nope you folks don't get paid enough for 24/7 job . And for those that think you do they can find their self a recuter and sign that dotted line

One of our boys has a Gov job four year degree one in Spanish another four years in job related experience to get a chance at the job he got . And you couldn't run fast enough to give it to me for any amount ..

Anyone puts up with the Gov, bull for a paycheck needs better pay and good retirement too.

**Kung** · #64 11/18/10, 06:43 PM

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Originally Posted by vigilant20

Military personnel are not automatically better or smarter than anyone else.

Any military member worth his salt WOULD NOT claim to be, nor has (to my knowledge) any member said that they are. Although I could be wrong.

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In fact, I believe I've read statistics to the contrary.

Then post them here.

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Aren't enlistments largely among those who lack marketable skills to survive in the civilian world?

I joined the Navy in 1994, and was immediately accepted into the Naval Nuclear Program. Suffice to say it's NOT an easy program to get through, though I'll leave it to others to determine how hard it is. I easily passed my schools. I ended up 'failing' out of the Nuclear Program, but due to stage fright (I couldn't pass my oral board due to nerves). I did, however, get A's on all my exams and all the way through school.

I then went to the USS Enterprise and became the ship's top network technician. After that I went to CINCLANTFLT and was asked to stay on extra years to run their networks there.

I now work as a GS-09 for the federal government, despite the fact that I have only an associate's degree, because I've got 15 years of knowledge and experience, with excellent references.

I graduated high school 8th out of a class of 300; I got 1450 or so on my SAT's (the OLD ones, where the highest you could get was 1600), was admitted to MENSA in high school, and a professional IQ test said I had an IQ in excess of 140. (Though I have no clue how true that is.)

Despite the fact that I work a full-time job, am in the Army Reserves (and I ASSURE you it's not a 'two-day-a-month' job), am renovating my house and do work on the side, I'm carrying a 3.50+ GPA in my college classes.

None of this makes me BETTER than anyone; but I'm no idiot either, and I know LOADS of people that I consider better/smarter than I do in the military. And I'm FAIRLY sure I don't lack marketable skills.

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I would have sympathy for someone caught in a draft. Not for someone who willingly signed a contract.

I don't know many people who willingly signed a contract that WANT sympathy. I know I sure don't.

deaconjim · #65 11/18/10, 07:03 PM

First of all Christy, thank you for your service.

Our military personel are definitely overworked and underpaid, and we all owe them (you) a huge debt of gratitude. You definitely don't deserve to be lumped in with the rest of our federal employees.

Federal employees are not all overpaid, but there are way too many, and too many of them are paid much higher than their civilian counterparts. This is a clear example of why it is less efficient to let the government do things that are best left to the private sector.

ChristyACB · #66 11/18/10, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deaconjim

First of all Christy, thank you for your service.

Our military personel are definitely overworked and underpaid, and we all owe them (you) a huge debt of gratitude. You definitely don't deserve to be lumped in with the rest of our federal employees.

Federal employees are not all overpaid, but there are way too many, and too many of them are paid much higher than their civilian counterparts. This is a clear example of why it is less efficient to let the government do things that are best left to the private sector.

Absolutely! Even though I don't like the idea of contracting out stuff it we did more of that with honest price comparison and no political cronyism and let the market dictate the wages of the employees then I think it would wind up employing people to their own satisfaction, with greater effort and at a far greater savings.

That said, I think we need to ditch a WHOLE lot of those contracts and go back to some of the older ways. We used a lot of that type of labor to teach fortitude, team work and value of all work to new sailors to shape them. I did it it was a very valuable experience...weird as that sounds.

(And thank you for saying that. You sure didn't have to!)

fantasymaker · #67 11/18/10, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigkat80

....The military are the best and brightest young people I ever had the privledge to serve and lead.....In comparison to their civilian counter parts that i now manage it aint even close...the civilians whine incessantly about a job the military would think was a vacation...as i said you cannot compare any one in the civilian community to what a military member must endure to serve this country.....

Sounds like a pretty big brag on the people in the service followed by a put down of ALL civilians

Quote:

Originally Posted by vigilant20

That's a very interesting post BigKat, and demonstrates the "we are better than you and deserve to be worshiped" attitude I dislike. Military personnel are not automatically better or smarter than anyone else. In fact, I believe I've read statistics to the contrary. Aren't enlistments largely among those who lack marketable skills to survive in the civilian world? I would have sympathy for someone caught in a draft. Not for someone who willingly signed a contract.

Sounds like a neutral comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristyACB

You have to be there to appreciate the vast difference between what they do on a daily basis and what an "employee" does when they punch the clock.

It's actually really insulting when people say stuff like what you say. Sort of snotty, mean, bitter and just...nasty. You're the sort I was talking about in my original post. That look you have on your face right now..yes, that one...is the one I really don't like my sailors to see when they get off an 18 hour shift and stop for milk on the way home. Yet people like you still do it.

But you take whats fairly neutral as "snotty,mean,bitter,and nasty".
I think THAT's the problem So many in the service think if your not worshipping at their feet your against them. Worse yet they try to portray that as being unpatriotic.
Its none of that.
Face it those in the service are people, just normal folks trying to get by just like the rest of us. Doing the best they can for them selves and their families.
Yes their jobs are tough...just like the rest of us. The service isn't the only place that a job puts your life at risk ,works you long hours with no overtime, and expects you to suck it up and deal.
And guess what?,no parades for the rest of us when we do our jobs right.

Jenn · #68 11/18/10, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigkat80

It already is...Service connected due to service enviroment....Look into it...and its true the stress of combat and non combat dangerous missions collectively cause most of the HBP(as well as some of the horrible eating habits developed in the military)...LOL but it is....

Really only if it (like anything including syphilis I think...) definitely starts during service. Right now if you are in the service 4 brutal years then get HBP 6 years later that is not service connected, but if you have a cush stateside job and stay in 24 years and get HBP like a high portion of 45 year olds in ANY job, and like all your family in or out of service then it is service connected. Although there is no scientific proof that being Army caused HBP in someone whose every family member got HBP 10 years earlier than they did- in such a case most likely service (exercise/staying slim) delayed and almost prevented it for that sort of person!

Wags · #69 11/18/10, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

But you take whats fairly neutral as "snotty,mean,bitter,and nasty".

YOU think its neutral, apparently there are many of us that don't see it that way at all.

You are certainly entitled to your perception, just as we are entitled to ours.

Jim-mi · #70 11/18/10, 11:13 PM

Christy you are one person that I would love to sit down to dinner/coffee with. . .because of all your posts here on HT over a bunch of time.

Perhaps you are guilty by association. . . . . . . .
what do I mean . . . There are lots of folks who are unhappy with the USA "policing" the whole darn world. 'Fighting' wars for the rich man. . ..
I/we are unhappy with those that make the call to send our guys and gals into harms way for their own devious reasons.
Tonight on the telly *news* there was two ole political farts talking about the need to cut the Social S budget..........Did they mention cutting the Military budget . . .NO.
So lots of folks are very unhappy with the gosh awfull monster Military budget . . .was it one of those folks who spit on you . .????
This country has got to cut spending . .BIG TIME.
thats my Tea Party self talking..........

My history . .army . .Korea-Nam
two sons aboard the USS Saratoga
one son a Navy Seal . . . .now flying the Orion(sp???) sub chasers.
My staff Sargent pay check was pretty darn small.

Sonshine · #71 11/18/10, 11:16 PM

DH told me they were talking about putting a 3 year freeze on military pay. That's going to hurt a lot of the lower ranking enlisted people.

salmonslayer · #72 11/19/10, 12:24 AM

Quote:

And guess what?,no parades for the rest of us when we do our jobs right.

That has to hurt....

**Kung** · #73 11/19/10, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasymaker

Face it those in the service are people, just normal folks trying to get by just like the rest of us. Doing the best they can for them selves and their families.
Yes their jobs are tough...just like the rest of us. The service isn't the only place that a job puts your life at risk ,works you long hours with no overtime, and expects you to suck it up and deal.
And guess what?,no parades for the rest of us when we do our jobs right.

Y'know, I'm curious where this idea that the vast majority of military members expect 'obeisance' and recognition is coming from. The vast majority of service members that *I* know just want to do their job, and go home @ the end of the day. That's pretty much it. I'm fairly sure the negative comments posted are coming from a few bad apples sensationalized into 'most' service members expecting recognition.

I'm not going to hide at home on Veteran's Day or Memorial Day because it might offend someone who's ticked that we sometimes get 'special' recognition. I mean, hey, if Applebee's wants to give me a free meal, I'm all for it. However, neither do I EVER go around seeking recognition for my military service. Sure, in church, I'll stand up when they ask veterans to stand up to be recognized; and then I either look down @ the ground, or straight ahead, when they applaud. Because I sure didn't join for recognition, or 'chicks' or any of that. I joined because of 3 reasons:

- I knew I needed to mature
- I knew I'd get a good education
- and I wanted to serve my country.

About the only thing we DON'T want is what pretty much NO ONE wants - which is to be told that we're nothing special and that we all expect people to kowtow to us and bow down, because it's pretty much flat out NOT true.

(BTW - yes, I wasn't exactly being inconspicuous in my previous point. Nor did I intend to. My point was to illustrate the fact that no, the military's not exactly full of bumbling idiots.)

Laura Zone 10 · #74 11/19/10, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonshine

DH told me they were talking about putting a 3 year freeze on military pay. That's going to hurt a lot of the lower ranking enlisted people.

My dh is a civilian engineer, that develops and tests safety belts for school busses.... and didn't see a raise for 4 years...and took a cut in insurance benefits to keep his job.
The COL rose every year, but his pay, did not.
So I picked up a second job.
It is what it is. Ya do whatcha gotta do!

Laura Zone 10 · #75 11/19/10, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kung

Y'know, I'm curious where this idea that the vast majority of military members expect 'obeisance' and recognition is coming from. The vast majority of service members that *I* know just want to do their job, and go home @ the end of the day. That's pretty much it. I'm fairly sure the negative comments posted are coming from a few bad apples sensationalized into 'most' service members expecting recognition.

I'm not going to hide at home on Veteran's Day or Memorial Day because it might offend someone who's ticked that we sometimes get 'special' recognition. I mean, hey, if Applebee's wants to give me a free meal, I'm all for it. However, neither do I EVER go around seeking recognition for my military service. Sure, in church, I'll stand up when they ask veterans to stand up to be recognized; and then I either look down @ the ground, or straight ahead, when they applaud. Because I sure didn't join for recognition, or 'chicks' or any of that. I joined because of 3 reasons:

- I knew I needed to mature
- I knew I'd get a good education
- and I wanted to serve my country.

About the only thing we DON'T want is what pretty much NO ONE wants - which is to be told that we're nothing special and that we all expect people to kowtow to us and bow down, because it's pretty much flat out NOT true.

(BTW - yes, I wasn't exactly being inconspicuous in my previous point. Nor did I intend to. My point was to illustrate the fact that no, the military's not exactly full of bumbling idiots.)

The two young men I work with that served recently in the Army are very humble about their service........they do not walk around with the chests puffed out expecting people to kiss their feet.
On Veterans Day, they sat around in 'full gear' and watched Rambo all day!

They didn't do what they did to 'get chicks' or have people bow at their feet. Most the time, they would prefer NOT to be 'ooooed over'.
They watched friends, die. They had friends die in their arms......
They would rather not be treated as 'royalty', and elevated to "god-like" status. They are just glad, to be home, in one piece.

Topaz Farm · #76 11/19/10, 07:22 AM

I am the wife of a retired AF MSgt. When we first in we (I can't remember exactly) got maybe $200 a month. That was way back when the wives got their own small allotment. I think one time we filed income tax on somewhere around $2K. Not much.

Military families put up with a lot. There were times when he worked 12 or more hours before coming home. They would have "alerts", once or twice during an "alert" a real crisis did happen. That meant that he was gone "somewhere". Of course, even though the wives weren't supposed to know where that "somewhere" was, we did.

Not only do the military members work and sacrifice for their pay and other's freedome, the families do too.

And when we were in, most of these civilian jobs on bases were done by military members. Before we retired I saw these "civilians" at work. They took more breaks than they did actual work.

MJsLady · #77 11/19/10, 07:57 AM

Some of the posts in this thread appall me. If it were not for our military, which is to date the BEST in the world, we would be under Japanese control. From what I understand Japanese worker bees get little liberty to whine about work, prices or what ever.

Europe would be split possibly between the nazis and communists, though I think the nazis would have won eventually.

It was the USA that saved us from this.

I guess I must be odd but my mother taught me to salute the flag and those who protect it. Even her Exhusband who was my father. Dad said the military was the best thing he ever did and he was proud to have done it.

We are losing our WW2 vets at the rate of 18 per day on average.

There are no gimmes in the military you work hard for everything you have just like the rest of us. Oh wait some civilians do not work but still have apartments and food. Not an option for military persons.

Do I like war? NO. I do however like to sleep at night not waiting for a bomb to land in my yard. If we did not have our military we would have bigger issues with the taliban and who ever else than we do now.

America is free because of our military. Do I like them in Afghanistan or Iraq? Not really, but it is my job to support them even when I do not agree 100% with where they are. If it was my call they would be protecting our borders and putting the drug cartels in holes in the ground.

Never forget and never doubt America is the Home of the free BECAUSE of the brave. May God bless them and keep them.

PS I do know some scoundrels are in the service too, just like every where in life. The military is just folks after all, good and bad all mixed in together.

beowoulf90 · #78 11/19/10, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyDay

Maybe later in the 80s. I left Europe in '82, then went back from '90-'94. Medical always called me to donate my O- blood. Maybe the need for O- (which anyone can use) was higher priority than the chance of me carrying Mad Cow.

Ok I left Germany in '84 and I'm a type O+ and never rejected to donate blood..

Unless like I said before...surgery, tattoos etc..

beowoulf90 · #79 11/19/10, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laura Zone 5

The two young men I work with that served recently in the Army are very humble about their service........they do not walk around with the chests puffed out expecting people to kiss their feet.
On Veterans Day, they sat around in 'full gear' and watched Rambo all day!

They didn't do what they did to 'get chicks' or have people bow at their feet. Most the time, they would prefer NOT to be 'ooooed over'.
They watched friends, die. They had friends die in their arms......
They would rather not be treated as 'royalty', and elevated to "god-like" status. They are just glad, to be home, in one piece.

Exactly..

On Veterans Day here the local Applebys were giving veterans a free breakfast. I refused it and paid for it.. Why? Because I can afford to pay for it, give it to someone/Veteran that needs help. While I do appreciate the kind gesture that Applebys offered, I didn't serve for recognition, I did it because it was the right thing for me to do. Period, no if's, no and's, no but's.

Sure I could have made more in civilian life.. But I was a part of something that most will never get the chance to do. But then I've been called a fool also...

All I can say is "All the way Sir" While wearing my beret along with my "wings". That was something I earned, unlike the berets they wear now..

fantasymaker · #80 11/19/10, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kung

Y'know, I'm curious where this idea that the vast majority of military members expect 'obeisance' and recognition is coming from. The vast majority of service members that *I* know just want to do their job, and go home @ the end of the day..)

What if we told "Army" jokes like we tell "lawyer" jokes how up in arms would people get?
The service gets a special pass on criticism.
And it is by no means service members alone in that its lots of people outside the service.

In the end your right service members are just like the rest of us ,regular folks that want to do their jobs ad go home.