Salvation thread

[watcher]

Originally Posted by tinknal

Watcher, I think you are still missing my point. My point is that the man on the steps was a hypocrite, someone claiming righteousness while condemning another who was actually more righteous than himself. THAT is my point. I'm not talking about calling someone out, that is fine and I do that quite often. What I am talking about is Christians who claim a moral superiority that they clearly don't have. I'm talking about Jim Baker, Ted Haggard, and Jimmy Swaggert.

My point is way too many Christians believe it when they have non-Christians "You can't judge, the Bible says you can't judge!"

I can judge, AAMOF I have not only been told to judge but I have been given the standard from which I base my judgment. If you don't like the fact I point out your errors to you then maybe you better check to see if maybe I'm right before you get your knickers in a knot.

[watcher]

Originally Posted by tarbe

There is a practical righteousness, and a legal righteousness.

Practical is from what we "do". In this regard, we all fall woefully short of what is needed for salvation.

The legal (ie in God's sight) comes from what has been done for us, and imputed to us.

If Christ's righteousness has been imputed to you through faith, then this perfect righteousness will save you.

If anyone relies on the practical righteousness for salvation, they are in big trouble.

Regarding evangelism....I have a different take on the Great Commission than most.

The reason I have this different take is the word disciple (as in go make disciples).

The scriptures do differentiate between believers and disciples. All disciples are believers, but not all believers are disciples. A disciple is actively learning from and following their Master. A believer may not necessarily be doing that.

So the Great Commission, to my way of thinking, is more about training up believers and equipping them, and less about "making Christians".

We are always to be ready to give a reason for the hope we have, and to testify...but God makes Believers. We are definitely bit players in the process!

YMMV


Tim

My pastor puts it this way:

Love without truth is liberalism.
Truth without love is legalism.

IOW, you have to tell a person the truth about their actions but you have to do it in a loving way. Which is just what the Bible tells us.

[ladycat]

Originally Posted by Jokarva

Sermon I read a while ago explained that the "heathen" (their word, not mine) after death will be shown the truth of Christ, if they believe and accept - they will be saved. If not...

My grandaddy was a Pentacostal minister, and he believed that. But I'm pretty sure it's not a normal Pentacostal belief or teaching. I think granddad just came up with that on his own.

Originally Posted by watcher

Too many people today think all you have to do is believe Christ is the Son of God and you are saved. I have to point out that Satan himself believed Christ was the Son of God, does that mean he's a Christian? IOW, there's a lot more involved than just 'believing' and saying you believe. You have to live the Christian life, i.e. become Christ like.

I've heard this argument before. What people aren't getting is, there's a difference in the way a Christian and a demon or Satan believes.

Of course Satan knows Jesus Christ. Jesus created him and fought with him in Heaven.

A Christian* "believes on" Jesus Christ. This is archaic language but it merely means accepting that Jesus is real, repenting, and accepting His invitation for a personal relationship.

(*a born from above Christian. Not someone who's just playing lip service but isn't actually a believer).

You "know" your next door neighbor. You know he's a real person. But that doesn't mean you're a member of his family. In order to be a family member, your neighbor would need to legally adopt you.

That's what God does when we "believe on" Him. He adopts us. He doesn't adopt Satan.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by watcher

My point is way too many Christians believe it when they have non-Christians "You can't judge, the Bible says you can't judge!"

I can judge, AAMOF I have not only been told to judge but I have been given the standard from which I base my judgment. If you don't like the fact I point out your errors to you then maybe you better check to see if maybe I'm right before you get your knickers in a knot.

So believers can become snarky with other believers over honest differences of opinion?

[Gercarson]

Originally Posted by tinknal

So believers can become snarky with other believers over honest differences of opinion?

Oh yes - you know that.

Just look at all the different sects of Christianity. Even the Baptists have several divisions.

Revelation 2:7 'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God.'

Even so, the New Testament is still the core. Christianity cannot exist without Jesus so there can only be the "differences" of opinion that cause the "snarkiness" but does not detract from the commonality - most have that apprehension that they might not have the "ear" or that they DO have the "ear" and others do not. Still, keep this one thought about you and you "probably" will have the ear whether others do or not.

"The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness." Matthew 6:22, 23

[willow_girl]

Must be nice to be prefect. The rest of us have to fight the flesh every day, heck every hour.

Never said I was perfect, but if life is a constant struggle against temptation, ummm, what's up with that?!

I've always liked the advice of poet Ntozake Shange: "Insteada being sorry all the time, try being yourself."

I once read something that said the secret to marketing is making something people want in the first place; then it becomes easy to sell it. You solve the problem on the front end, so to speak. I think life is kinda the same way: if you can wrap your mind around wanting only good things, why, the rest comes easy.

To be honest, I'm not sure how one goes about doing that, assuming it's not one's natural inclination. I guess I'm lucky in that most of what's considered 'sin' simply doesn't interest me.

[watcher]

Originally Posted by tinknal

So believers can become snarky with other believers over honest differences of opinion?

Yep, just like you become snarky over differences of opinions with your earthly family. We ain't perfect only trying to get that way.

But if you read the Bible you will see Christians are told to keep our disagreements private. If I disagree with George take him aside and discuss it with him. I don't tell Fred about it before hand. I may tell Fred and even ask Fred to come with me to talk to George with me if I feel it necessary.

[tinknal]

Originally Posted by willow_girl

I once read something that said the secret to marketing is making something people want in the first place; then it becomes easy to sell it.

Maybe, but sales is convincing people that they need something that they never even heard of.