Man paralyzed after drinking raw milk

haypoint · #**101** 04/25/10, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

Bovine STD??? what the heck are you talking about. It is a bacteria, not an STD, nobody is having unsafe cow sex. Haypoint you are way off on this one. Fecal bacteria, which could also have been from a pet if the man had one is possible. You must also run into a crowded theater and yell fire. You have got to be kidding is all I have to say. > Marc

http://www.nadis.org.uk/DiseasesCatt...0Infection.htm

Campylobacter infection (Vibriosis)

The NADIS data show that abortion and infertility remain significant problems on farm. One of the most important causes of infertility and abortion in UK cattle is infection by Campylobacter fetus. This organism can cause sporadic abortion, abortion storms, metritis, delayed return to heat, and very low pregnancy rates.

How do cows get infected

Sporadic abortion, that is the one-off case, is probably associated with the bacteria getting in via the guts. However the vast majority of problems associated with Campylobacter are linked to venereal infection. In most cases the source of infection is an infected mature bull bought onto the farm, which then spreads the bacteria as it mates. The most high-risk animal is a hire bull. Younger bulls and breeding females are less common sources of infection but any animal that has been previously mated is a potential source.

Apology accepted.

haypoint · #**102** 04/25/10, 04:27 AM

I’ve been driving drunk for my whole life and never had an accident.

I think it is my right. They sell booze and they make cars. If you are afraid of getting hit by a drunk driver, just stay off the road. You have no right pushing your non-drunk driving beliefs on me. More people die of heart disease than killed by drunk drivers and you don’t see the CEO of Krispy Kream going to prison.

The government has no right to send out their boot-legged thugs to stop my car and throw me in jail. Why don’t they go after Monsanto, that’s where the real crime is.

Just because some idiot that doesn’t know how to drive drunk and slams into a school bus, why blame it on alcohol? He was just a bad driver.

I can’t sell hamburger that has manure ground up in it. I can’t sell spinach that has had pig manure sprayed on it. I can’t sell strawberries that the pickers urinated on. I can’t bypass the sink after I take a dump and prepare your salad in a restaurant. I can’t short change you at my gas pumps. I can’t sell raw milk. I can’t drive drunk. All over-regulation.

I say “Grow Up, America” Let the buyer beware, let the drivers beware. If I slam into a tree, it is my own business. If I slam into you, tough, you should have been watching out for this known possibility.

Let’s not just stop with milk. Let’s roll back the health standards of everything. Get big Government out of our dairies, chicken processing plants, gas pumps, pesticide regulations, imported food inspections, everything. Just let the buyer beware.

If we really want to make a difference, let’s put a ban on the real killer, all prescription drugs. We got along for hundreds of years without them. Probably a Government plot to get us addicted to pharmaceuticals.

JeffNY · #**103** 04/25/10, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

I’ve been driving drunk for my whole life and never had an accident.

I think it is my right. They sell booze and they make cars. If you are afraid of getting hit by a drunk driver, just stay off the road. You have no right pushing your non-drunk driving beliefs on me. More people die of heart disease than killed by drunk drivers and you don’t see the CEO of Krispy Kream going to prison.

The government has no right to send out their boot-legged thugs to stop my car and throw me in jail. Why don’t they go after Monsanto, that’s where the real crime is.

Just because some idiot that doesn’t know how to drive drunk and slams into a school bus, why blame it on alcohol? He was just a bad driver.

I can’t sell hamburger that has manure ground up in it. I can’t sell spinach that has had pig manure sprayed on it. I can’t sell strawberries that the pickers urinated on. I can’t bypass the sink after I take a dump and prepare your salad in a restaurant. I can’t short change you at my gas pumps. I can’t sell raw milk. I can’t drive drunk. All over-regulation.

I say “Grow Up, America” Let the buyer beware, let the drivers beware. If I slam into a tree, it is my own business. If I slam into you, tough, you should have been watching out for this known possibility.

Let’s not just stop with milk. Let’s roll back the health standards of everything. Get big Government out of our dairies, chicken processing plants, gas pumps, pesticide regulations, imported food inspections, everything. Just let the buyer beware.

If we really want to make a difference, let’s put a ban on the real killer, all prescription drugs. We got along for hundreds of years without them. Probably a Government plot to get us addicted to pharmaceuticals.

You really don't have any idea why your against raw milk. What you are for is big government, and big government programs.

Also I like it how you think its ok that thousands die per year from things the government oks, and doesn't shut down..

And why are you against raw milk? But your not against anything else? Never ever see you post against anything other than raw milk.. Maybe you like to ramble on and make examples to try to press your point of view, that is the government's point of view, more so than your own.

Jeff

Ken Scharabok · #**104** 04/25/10, 10:12 AM

I haven't followed full thread: Perhaps the question to ask the raw milk seller is 'Do you and your family (and employees) drink this milk in exactly the way in which you are going to sell it to me?

If they walk over to a sink, wash out a glass, draw a glassful and consume it, I'd feel prettty darn good safe.

If the pimply-faced kid says, well, no we still buy store milk. Under the new law we just have an opportunity to sell part of what is in the bulk tank for significantly more per gallon.

lilmizlayla · #**105** 04/25/10, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Scharabok

I haven't followed full thread: Perhaps the question to ask the raw milk seller is 'Do you and your family (and employees) drink this milk in exactly the way in which you are going to sell it to me?

If they walk over to a sink, wash out a glass, draw a glassful and consume it, I'd feel prettty darn good safe.

If the pimply-faced kid says, well, no we still buy store milk. Under the new law we just have an opportunity to sell part of what is in the bulk tank for significantly more per gallon.

Could it also be that small dairy farmers cannot compete with the large ones who can afford to sterilise properly?

Studies have shown that there is no differance in store bought milk and raw except for the bacteria that may be in there. I wont even go into the pus and blood they find in milk from cows with mastitis...

So gross....I never want to touch milk again

lilmizlayla · #**106** 04/25/10, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNY

You really don't have any idea why your against raw milk.

Jeff

the fact that you can be paralyzed from consuming it should be reason enough. no?

That was the whole point of people beginning to sterilise it. Probably because people were getting sick and dying. If it was so Safe..they wouldnt have needed to bother sterilising it.

sanitation has much to do with it..yes..but lets face it.....you can smell a cow barn miles away. I have owned cows. They are not clean animals.

JeffNY · #**107** 04/25/10, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilmizlayla

the fact that you can be paralyzed from consuming it should be reason enough. no?

That was the whole point of people beginning to sterilise it. Probably because people were getting sick and dying. If it was so Safe..they wouldnt have needed to bother sterilising it.

sanitation has much to do with it..yes..but lets face it.....you can smell a cow barn miles away. I have owned cows. They are not clean animals.

And there are plenty of people that have been sickened and are sickened from pastuerized milk. I found it a little odd when I drank Pasteurized milk I would end up with a stomach ache, let alone the after taste it had. Milk should NOT have an aftertaste.

Jeff

Heritagefarm · #**108** 04/25/10, 01:32 PM

And how do we know if it was actually the milk that paralyzed him? People drink raw milk all the time. What if he did something in conjuction that the report didn't mention?

springvalley · #**109** 04/25/10, 02:08 PM

Well Lilmizlayla, Size of the dairy has nothing to do with sanitation, I know huge farms that are clean and some that are filthy, same with the small farms. I never put anything in my milk tank that I won`t drink myself. Cows are only as clean as you allow them to be, if you have knee deep poop, you are going to have dirty cows. If they are out on pasture and a bedded shed they are going to be fairly clean. And as far as a dairy barn smelling, I just love the smell of a cow barn, my wife thinks I`m a little loopy, but thats just me. So as they say size don`t matter, > Thanks Marc

lilmizlayla · #**110** 04/25/10, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

Well Lilmizlayla, Size of the dairy has nothing to do with sanitation, I know huge farms that are clean and some that are filthy, same with the small farms. I never put anything in my milk tank that I won`t drink myself. Cows are only as clean as you allow them to be, if you have knee deep poop, you are going to have dirty cows. If they are out on pasture and a bedded shed they are going to be fairly clean. And as far as a dairy barn smelling, I just love the smell of a cow barn, my wife thinks I`m a little loopy, but thats just me. So as they say size don`t matter, > Thanks Marc

yes, but apparently not everyone is a clean with their animals as you are. You do have to admit that. There are bacteria that is transmittable by not sterilizing milk. Why take that risk? I guess that is my question. There is a reason we (US) does not allow for human consumption of raw milk.

Heritagefarm · #**111** 04/25/10, 03:39 PM

Again, are we all so stupid we can't decide for ourselves to drink raw milk? I think if we are all stupid enough to fill our bodies with pizzas and Twinkies and Doritos, we should have the choice to drink raw milk.

haypoint · #**112** 04/25/10, 06:37 PM

Springvalley makes a good point, one that many on here are refusing to admit. There are clean and dirty dairies of every size. To believe anything else is pure and simple class envy.

But let’s take this a step farther. In very general terms we can believe that a dairy that has rapid removal of manure, well drained ample pastures, well lit and clean barns and plenty of modern stainless pipelines with frigid bulk tanks, there is less chance for some types of bacteria.

But where I seem to be losing some of you is the undeniable fact that diseases and bacteria can attack every farm, often without outward signs. Thinking the milk is safe from a cow that “looks healthy” is a false sense of security. If humans could detect disease by sight, STDs would have been wiped out thousands of years ago.

I’m sure the milking crew at Dean Dairy, source of the tainted milk that rendered some poor guy paralyzed, regularly drinks milk directly from the bulk tank. If not, I’ll bet they feed it to their families. I doubt anyone is knowingly selling raw milk that can sicken paralyze or kill anyone. I see no signs of ill intent. Yet, cases of illnesses caused from raw milk and cheeses made from raw milk happen with a degree of regularity. Good intentions do not insure safe raw milk.

Then there is the myth that raw milk sales are a key to small dairy profitability. While I’m sure Grade A milking standards vary from state to state, around here, the small dairies can’t afford to go Grade A. They can only market their milk for processing plants that make products like cheese. To maintain an on-farm bottling plant and provide store hours is much better suited to a larger operation.

In Michigan, the huge dairy operations, often referred to as “Dutch Dairies” because farmers from Holland immigrate here, build and operate dairies that house over 5000 cows. They do not grow feed. They do not raise replacement heifers. They simply milk. I doubt they would create a raw milk side line. However, many “middle sized” dairies are always looking for ways to increase their bottom line. These would be the 100 to 1000 head operations. There are many of them. I know of only a few Grade A dairies with less than 100 cows. Those often depend on off farm income or are cash crop focused.

In the “Are we so stupid” response, I’ll bet Pizza Hut and Frito-Lay would lose some business if every once in awhile someone was paralyzed by their products. If this discussion were about non-homogenized milk versus homogenized milk, I might side towards the non-processed argument. But whole milk has plenty of fat, right up there with pizza and Twinkies. But that isn’t where this discussion is. It is about groups of people unknowingly selling diseased and bacteria laden raw milk to people that buy it with the belief that it is healthier than pasteurized milk.

I do not believe legalization of raw milk sales will help the small producer, under 100 cows. Despite every attempt to market disease-free raw milk, there will be outbreaks. Government regulation/control of raw milk sales will allow closer observation of the tiny 5-10 cow dairies that sell within their local community.

We saw what happened to apple sales after the 60 Minutes story about Alar pesticides on fruit. It turned out to be false, but the damage was done. We all saw pork purchases drop when the N1H1 influenza was erroneously called Swine Flu. East Coast and Florida spinach growers lost their whole crop because a California grower marketed a tainted product. I could go on and on. The point is Big Business isn’t afraid that raw milk sales will steal market share. Consumers getting sick from raw milk will affect the sales of the pasteurized product, too. Raw milk promotion methods that describe processed milk as unsafe or unhealthy unfairly diminish market share.

The bacteria that causes paralysis was found in his system and in the milk bottle. Maybe it wasn’t the milk. Perhaps, just after drinking the milk, he fell off the roof of a building and is just unfairly blaming the bacteria? There are none so blind………………..

springvalley · #**113** 04/25/10, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilmizlayla

yes, but apparently not everyone is a clean with their animals as you are. You do have to admit that. There are bacteria that is transmittable by not sterilizing milk. Why take that risk? I guess that is my question. There is a reason we (US) does not allow for human consumption of raw milk.

Why take the risk? I enjoy the taste of whole raw milk, and I do take it for health reasons. I have drank raw milk the better part of my life, and I`m not going to stop now. There are also alot of states that allow the sale of raw milk, and some even sell it in stores(go figure).Why risk it? because when I get up in the morning, I take the risk of falling down the stairs, getting hit by a car, cow could kick me in the head, tractor could roll over on me, rocket could fall out of the sky on me. If I lived like eveything could kill me, I wouldn`t get out of bed.> Thanks Marc

JeffNY · #**114** 04/25/10, 08:53 PM

Who said that big farms are all dirty? Seems a certain someone assumes to much. What was said however is that the LARGE dairies for the most part have no interest in selling raw milk. They have other things they pursue, and for that matter, most of those are managed by the owners, but they have hired hands that run it.

Some certain people need to stop rambling, and read clearer.

Jeff

springvalley · #**115** 04/25/10, 09:07 PM

And Haypoint, That was about the most P.C. post that you have done, I still don`t agree with you about everything, but as I have said you and I are just going to disagree about this issue. I still don`t know why you say the small dairies can`t afford to be grade A, I am , and I have less than 20 cows,It is mostly keeping things clean.Well I think I`m done with this thread as we are not going to agree, so I am done beating the dead horse, so to speak.> Thanks To All of You, Marc P.S. until we meet again Haypoint.

tamsam · #**116** 04/25/10, 09:57 PM

My question to start with was," How many people got sick from this milk?" No one has answered. Was it tainted when it left the dairy? Now as far as being STUPID enough to drive drunk please don't come down here drunk driving. Maybe you should check into what booze does to your driving skills when you consume it. I know first hand what it does. I watched a test done with several big name race car drivers way back when. After one drink they started to make mistakes. When helping load a family of four into a meat wagon to go to the morgue and the drunk that killed them was standing with no injuries did I have to keep my self from pushing his stupid out into the path of an eighteen wheeler. Yep I sure did. When I was young and stupid I did drink and drive. Thank God I didn't kill some one but got smart enough to know that one drink and no drive. It is my belief that things can be bough but it is up to us to use them as they should be used. No one says drink bud and you can drive better. We just last night here had a State Trooper with a car stopped on a traffic stop with his lights flashing hit by a Dumb Drunk that thought he could drink and drive. Tonight that Trooper is in the hospital fighting for his life. OH and the drunk hit the patrol car first. Should the drunk be charged with drunk driving? Nope if this trooper dies he should be charged with murder. If you buy a gun should I have to be the one to duck bullets because it is your right to shoot where you want? I just hope no one has to have the death of people on their hands from some dumb actions the did. Now I will shut up. Sam

Beaners · #**117** 04/25/10, 10:40 PM

The official number is "no more than 8" right now. It wasn't just the immediate family of the man who is paralyzed, as far as I know.

The real problem here is that the people read on the internet that this was something healthy and good for them, and dove into it. It might just be the way everything I've heard has been phrased, but this family more or less insists that they never knew there could be a risk to drinking raw milk. And now they have had a very unfortunate event open their eyes. That's the part of personal responsibility that doesn't get the big thumbs up from most people.

Raw milk is neither deadly poison nor a miracle cure.

Kayleigh

tamsam · #**118** 04/25/10, 10:52 PM

That is right. If I eat or drink something that is bad for me so be it as long as I don't put others in danger. You are the first as far as I know to answer how many people got sick. I hope they get well. Sam

haypoint · #**119** 04/26/10, 04:40 AM

Well, springvalley, I'm going to study the 386 pages of the most recent changes to Michigan's Grade A Regulations, and see if these local dairy farmers were just bluffing when they sold off their cows. Feel free in joining me in my educational research:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...l_251324_7.pdf

tamsam, thanks for the reminder of the evils of drunk driving, I'll try to do better. Suddenly, I feel like just staying home, curling up on the couch and watching "Deliverence" again.
I share your concern over those sickened by Dean's raw milk. Let's hope those other folks that got sick in Michigan from that Amish guy's raw milk, shipped in from Indiana, made a full recovery, too. Plus, bless all those starving pigmies in South America, too.

JeffNY · #**120** 04/26/10, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Well, springvalley, I'm going to study the 386 pages of the most recent changes to Michigan's Grade A Regulations, and see if these local dairy farmers were just bluffing when they sold off their cows. Feel free in joining me in my educational research:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...l_251324_7.pdf

tamsam, thanks for the reminder of the evils of drunk driving, I'll try to do better. Suddenly, I feel like just staying home, curling up on the couch and watching "Deliverence" again.
I share your concern over those sickened by Dean's raw milk. Let's hope those other folks that got sick in Michigan from that Amish guy's raw milk, shipped in from Indiana, made a full recovery, too. Plus, bless all those starving pigmies in South America, too.

Unfortunately, the 300,000 that died last year from government approved drugs, cant recover.

Jeff