Man paralyzed after drinking raw milk

southerngurl · #81 04/22/10, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laura Zone 5

I'd like to see some good stats of how many die from raw milk consumption, then numbers from salmonella, and then numbers from E coli.

Then I would like to see the stats from the salmonella cases that were contracted from the grocery store and then from restaurants.
Then I would like to see the stats from the E coli cases that were contracted from the grocery store, and then from restaurants.

I am going to guess the likelihood of contracting salmonella or E coli from your local grocery store or restaurant are at least DOUBLE the chances of dying from drinking raw milk.

But I would love to see the stats.

All of them would be less than the deaths from our consumption of sterilized and refined foods.

In fact doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in our country, but you don't see people warning about seeing them.

gone-a-milkin · #82 04/22/10, 10:59 PM

This issue always gets turned around to something else. As if by saying, he did it too. Or he did it MORE. or he did it FIRST! will change the point.

That is very juevenile. Heck, my kids do it all the time.

Honestly, when people who work In the Dairy Industry remind you to "be careful" it is not because they are trying to stop you from making educated choices for yourself.

The best thing you can do is learn all you can about anything: going to the doctor, vaccinating your children, eating raw {anything},voting in an election, buying a car, etc.

Milk is an amazing thing. The same things that make it so healthy to mammals also make it a great breeding ground for bacteria. If you are not confident that it has not been exposed to pathogens your body can deal with, do you KNOWINGLY feed it to your baby? This is not about 'big business' vs 'small farmers'.

Of course people have not all just dropped dead from drinking raw milk. I have had it all my days! Many generations before me too. However, there are real and valid reasons to QUESTION the safety. that doesn't mean BAN it. It means to know what the risks are.

Just QUESTION the safety, please? Think about it.

Being paralyzed by something? That is no joke.
Use judgement. Educate yourself.Know your source.

Not just with MILK, but with everything.
There, that is my opposable-thumb-having 2 cents.

haypoint · #83 04/22/10, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pouncer

Another observation or two:

If there were some means to test raw milk in a few minutes, that would help. To my knowledge, this is not possible today.

It helps to visit the farm and see their practises for all the animals. Are they healthy, are there any routines for sanitation, and so forth. Of course, that supposes the consumer knows what to look for when it comes to good animal husbandry. But a filthy place and poorly cleaned milking areas would give me pause.

A friend does goats and has a closed farm as well-little risk there because they are fastidious about cleaniless every single day. The goats are on testing regular too, of course.

Another person I know contracted that campobylactor (mild form I guess, not familiar with it at all) shortly after acquiring goats. I presume this was through some fault in their handling, husbandry and milking practises-does anyone know? Or is it a common bacteria that can be picked up easily?

Seeing the dairy and cows are filthy is a sure sign that the milk is likely unsafe. However, clean cows fed superior feed in clean barns can, and do, transmit dangerous bacteria.

You can't have it both ways. You can't allow customers to tour your facilities AND have an effective bio-secure closed farm. Those are opposites.

haypoint · #84 04/22/10, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southerngurl

All of them would be less than the deaths from our consumption of sterilized and refined foods.

In fact doctors are the 3rd leading cause of death in our country, but you don't see people warning about seeing them.

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
Let's cut through the BS and get one thing straight. There is a major difference between totals and percentages.

If you have a product that is sold by the millions of gallons every day and in a year's time 10 people get sick from it and another product that has sold 100,000 in a year’s time, but only 2 people got sick, which is safer? As a percentage, the first product is twice as safe.

If you market a drug to a hundred million people and each person takes 500 pills a year and this drug keeps those hundred million people from getting sick or dying, I think I can live with a few thousand negative reactions/ side effects and even a few deaths.

Hard to attribute a drug's use with death. As an example, shortly after Viagra hit the market, there were a number of prescription holders that had massive heart attacks. Upon further investigation, it wasn't the fault of the drug, but in the new found cardio-exercise that blew up their hearts.:smiley-laughing013:

There is no way you can compare, by numbers of incidents, the billions of pills consumed in this country and the thousands of gallons of raw milk consumed.

Prescription drugs, by their very nature are dangerous. That's why they are sold only by the advice of your doctor. Food is supposed to be good for you. Comparing raw milk to FDA approved drugs isn't an apple to oranges comparison. It is a apple to Oxicodin comparison.

Laura Zone 10 · #85 04/23/10, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Just as a side note, the same folks that are trying to make sure we can't drink our milk raw are the same folks that allow MSG to be labeled as "spices" and "natural flavorings", etc. They also have no problem telling us that margarine (PLASTIC) is a healthy food. Personnally, I will do my own research and eat what I know to be healthy.

Amen Navygirl!!

springvalley · #86 04/23/10, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
Let's cut through the BS and get one thing straight. There is a major difference between totals and percentages.

If you market a drug to a hundred million people and each person takes 500 pills a year and this drug keeps those hundred million people from getting sick or dying, I think I can live with a few thousand negative reactions/ side effects and even a few deaths.

There is no way you can compare, by numbers of incidents, the billions of pills consumed in this country and the thousands of gallons of raw milk consumed.

:

Haypoint; You say you can live with a few thousand negative reaction/ side effects and even a few deaths, but yet you won`t allow those of us to drink raw milk with only a few negavtive reactions/ side effects and even a few deaths.
Also I think there are a few more than a few thousand gallons of raw milk drank in this country a year, I just figured up what I sell, and I`m just a small fish in the sea of raw milk sellers and buyers in this country.
So once again I say, allow us the right to keep drinking and selling to those that want to drink, our natural home raised,farm fresh, raw "REAL" milk. Thanks Marc

QuiltingLady2 · #87 04/23/10, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNY

And you see absolutely no concern illustrated by anyone. But you say they are concerned..

DO SOMETHING about it, vs "thinking I have a concern".

Jeff

OK, Advise me Oh, Jeff. What shall I do? What shall I do?

I don't drink raw milk. I support dairy farmers by buying their pasterized products. I have dear friends who are in the dairy business. Hummmm?

Want me to march on _____? for you? LOL

JeffNY · #88 04/23/10, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuiltingLady2

OK, Advise me Oh, Jeff. What shall I do? What shall I do?

I don't drink raw milk. I support dairy farmers by buying their pasterized products. I have dear friends who are in the dairy business. Hummmm?

Want me to march on _____? for you? LOL

Again, you voice a concern, but the "stay on topic" shows your lack of overall concern.

Jeff

JeffNY · #89 04/23/10, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
Let's cut through the BS and get one thing straight. There is a major difference between totals and percentages.

If you have a product that is sold by the millions of gallons every day and in a year's time 10 people get sick from it and another product that has sold 100,000 in a year’s time, but only 2 people got sick, which is safer? As a percentage, the first product is twice as safe.

If you market a drug to a hundred million people and each person takes 500 pills a year and this drug keeps those hundred million people from getting sick or dying, I think I can live with a few thousand negative reactions/ side effects and even a few deaths.

Hard to attribute a drug's use with death. As an example, shortly after Viagra hit the market, there were a number of prescription holders that had massive heart attacks. Upon further investigation, it wasn't the fault of the drug, but in the new found cardio-exercise that blew up their hearts.:smiley-laughing013:

There is no way you can compare, by numbers of incidents, the billions of pills consumed in this country and the thousands of gallons of raw milk consumed.

Prescription drugs, by their very nature are dangerous. That's why they are sold only by the advice of your doctor. Food is supposed to be good for you. Comparing raw milk to FDA approved drugs isn't an apple to oranges comparison. It is a apple to Oxicodin comparison.

Never seen things twisted so bad..

Jeff

Michael W. Smith · #90 04/23/10, 04:18 PM

Willowgirl!!!!!!! SHAME ON YOU FOR

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And as JeffNY said, if you come down with some type of food poisoning, the Department of Health asks all kinds of questions. My Father-In-Law was sick and in the hospital, and they did blood tests. One came back with Listeria, and the hospital contacted the doctor and Department of Health who wanted to talk to us. Asked all kinds of questions - Where does he buy fruits and vegetables, where does he buy his deli meats and other meats, etc plus "Did he drink raw milk?"

He did. We bought it for him from the local dairy. But I am 100% certain it wasn't the raw milk. With my in-laws being in their 80's, they don't eat right. And I'm sure they ate something old from their fridge - something WE would have thrown out - but you know how old people are.

For those who say "You shouldn't be allowed to drink milk, because I don't want to pay if you get sick.", well, you pay everyday for things like that.

The neighbor down the road who has smoked cigarettes since he was 13 - and is now diagnosed with lung cancer. (Smoking cigarettes causes lung cancer? WHO KNEW?!?!?!?) He doesn't have health insurance - so YOU get to pay!

Your cousin, who doesn't have a job, but eats Big Macs at McDonald's everyday. She doesn't have a job because she is severely obese and has health problems because of it. (Eating Big Macs everyday makes you fat? WHO KNEW?!?!?!?) She, of course, doesn't have health insurance (no job) - so YOU get to pay!

Your co-worker's teenage son at college happens to binge drink, and has drank so much, he ends up with brain damage and in a coma. (You can actually drink too much? WHO KNEW?!?!?!?) Your co-worker only works part-time, thus has no health insurance. The son is now in a nursing home with no chance of recovery, and with no insurance - YOU get to pay!

You pay for plenty of people everyday. A few sick people from drinking raw milk (if THAT is what it really is!) won't matter much to you.

JeffNY · #91 04/23/10, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael W. Smith

Willowgirl!!!!!!! SHAME ON YOU FOR

!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And as JeffNY said, if you come down with some type of food poisoning, the Department of Health asks all kinds of questions. My Father-In-Law was sick and in the hospital, and they did blood tests. One came back with Listeria, and the hospital contacted the doctor and Department of Health who wanted to talk to us. Asked all kinds of questions - Where does he buy fruits and vegetables, where does he buy his deli meats and other meats, etc plus "Did he drink raw milk?"

He did. We bought it for him from the local dairy. But I am 100% certain it wasn't the raw milk. With my in-laws being in their 80's, they don't eat right. And I'm sure they ate something old from their fridge - something WE would have thrown out - but you know how old people are.

For those who say "You shouldn't be allowed to drink milk, because I don't want to pay if you get sick.", well, you pay everyday for things like that.

The neighbor down the road who has smoked cigarettes since he was 13 - and is now diagnosed with lung cancer. (Smoking cigarettes causes lung cancer? WHO KNEW?!?!?!?) He doesn't have health insurance - so YOU get to pay!

Your cousin, who doesn't have a job, but eats Big Macs at McDonald's everyday. She doesn't have a job because she is severely obese and has health problems because of it. (Eating Big Macs everyday makes you fat? WHO KNEW?!?!?!?) She, of course, doesn't have health insurance (no job) - so YOU get to pay!

Your co-worker's teenage son at college happens to binge drink, and has drank so much, he ends up with brain damage and in a coma. (You can actually drink too much? WHO KNEW?!?!?!?) Your co-worker only works part-time, thus has no health insurance. The son is now in a nursing home with no chance of recovery, and with no insurance - YOU get to pay!

You pay for plenty of people everyday. A few sick people from drinking raw milk (if THAT is what it really is!) won't matter much to you.

Deli meats are a big source for people sickened by listeria.

Jeff

tamsam · #92 04/23/10, 06:38 PM

Sorry but I didn't read thru every post. My question is how many others got sick from this milk? Where is all the other people that drank from the same batch of milk? Is it possible that the milk got tainted after it was bought? How hard would it be for a kid or even an adult put their finger in the mouth of the jar or even drink out of the jar. Ok let's ban or make everything that kills or hurts people. Go snatch all the beer out of the stores along with all the wine and whiskey. Now you are really saving money and thousands of lives. These topics crack me up. We get all bent out of shape when something like this happens but allow drunk drivers to kill inocent people and get a slap on the hand. Wake up America and start saving lives where we can do the most good. Sam

haypoint · #93 04/24/10, 08:05 PM

I don't know how it is in WV, but Michigan gave up hand slapping for drunk drivers decades ago. Nobody is "allowing drunk drivers, it has been seriously illegal for some time.
Two people can eat the same amount of infected milk and only one get sick. Often when people get food poisoning, they pass it off as 24 hour flu.

Which way are you on this topic? Most people that want raw milk legalized, also want the government out of the other areas as well. What I'm reading is you question that the guy nearly died from a bovine STD in his raw milk, but want America to start saving lives by banning drunk driving and outlawing beer, wine and whiskey. There is no question that the guy got the bovine STD from the raw milk and I think we've tried Prohibition already and it didn't turn out so good.

If some kid has bovine STD on his fingers or lips, I don't want his fingers in my milk glass and I want someone to find out where that kid's fingers have been.

springvalley · #94 04/24/10, 08:40 PM

Bovine STD??? what the heck are you talking about. It is a bacteria, not an STD, nobody is having unsafe cow sex. Haypoint you are way off on this one. Fecal bacteria, which could also have been from a pet if the man had one is possible. You must also run into a crowded theater and yell fire. You have got to be kidding is all I have to say. > Marc

lilmizlayla · #95 04/24/10, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

There is no question that the guy got the bovine STD from the raw milk

.

OMIGOD..That is SO DISGUSTING

chas · #96 04/24/10, 08:59 PM

Well I've waded thru all this to make sure how many don't really know what they are talking about,and could care less, because they just know they have an opinion!!!!
My wife and I drink Adam Deans milk as do our grown kids and our grandkids.
We have always concidered him to be very good at sanitizing and the whole bit.
The state found the lab that was testing the milk was doing it wrong and giving a negative result , so they kept on doing what they normally do!
When he gets two clean tests in a row we start buying milk again.
If they put him out of buisness I guess I have to start saving my own goat milk.I work 7 days a week and shifts(impossible to milk right at this time)Because of the risk of pasturized and particularly homogenized milks affect on our arteries and general health I won't buy in the store!!!.
And let me say one word to really tick off certain intolerant people "GOD "

Chas

springvalley · #97 04/24/10, 09:15 PM

Amen !!! Chas > Thanks Marc

paintlady · #98 04/24/10, 11:18 PM

I will drink raw milk and take my chances. That should be my right to free choice in this country of ours.

Reptyle · #99 04/25/10, 12:19 AM

Just when you thought it was safe to go back into the forums...the dorsal fins break the surface...Why do they leave me such openings??!!

tamsam · #**100** 04/25/10, 02:02 AM

What I was saying is one person get sick from milk and everyone goes off. Yet thousands each year end up killed or disabled for live from drunk drivers that a large percentage have been convicted of dui before. Yet you put your life at risk from them each time you get on the road. Now all the other dangers, cell phones, eating and driving, putting on makeup while driving, and the list goes on. So many want a band wagon to jump on. Lets get on the wagon to get our country back on track. we have millions out of work but more and more of our jobs go out of the country because we won't do the jobs because they don't pay enough. What is enough. If I can only sell a shirt for 12 dollars and it cost me 13 to make it something has to give. This is part of what I am talking about. Let's get onto some of the things that might change things in our country. I am sure this farmer did not knowingly allow tainted milk be sold. Even if he did it should be my choice to buy his milk as it is your choice if you desire to buy whiskey or pop or what you want, drink it and get in a car and drive. Smoking causes cancer? Why can you still buy smokes? Big industry is in control. I don't know the laws here on milk and stuff like that, never had a reason to look them up. DW and I do work with the local Health Dept., Red Cross, and several other agencies in the county. We just got recertified in first aid and cpr this week. How do we know when there is a problem with any product we eat? Usually someone gets sick. Last one pops to mind was spinish and you could still buy it at the store. Just a few more of my thoughts but I could write all night. Sam