Man paralyzed after drinking raw milk

springvalley · #61 04/21/10, 09:44 PM

Well here we go again; One Reptyle being skwished under a cows hoof. He He by the way do you want to turn in your guns? I know you have some. He He Thanks my patriotic buddy, Marc

DJ in WA · #62 04/21/10, 09:47 PM

Trying to alarm me about each and every cause of injury or death does not work. Just about everything can kill someone.

One cannot handle the onslaught of threats we're informed of daily without being able to put them in perspective. That is why we need incidence rates so we can determine relative risk. For example, deaths per mile travelled is much lower in airplanes than automobiles, yet airplane crashes are much more dramatic and get more atttention. It is irresponsible to scare people away from flying so they drive instead. In effect, you are increasing their chance of death.

Likewise, I need to know the rate of illness or death from 1,000 servings of raw milk vs pasteurized milk. I have added up among my relatives, over 700 person-years of raw milk drinking without any known illness or deaths. And sanitation wasn't great when I grew up compared to what I practice now.

Even if rates of illness are higher somewhere does not mean that applies to my cow. I've seen people post cases here of TB from cheese from raw milk, but the cheese came from Mexico. That's like me worrying about my kid getting polio here - it is eradicated.

My immediate fear each day is getting killed on the highway.

Long-term, the biggest causes of illness and death are heart disease, cancer and diabetes. Lack of exercise and junk food and drink are big contributors to those deaths.

I spend much time going out and working to make feed for the cow, feed her, milk her and shovel her manure - all so I can drink her milk.

Nobody would worry about my health if I sat on my rear all day and drove to the store to buy pasteurized milk and soda pop. Then I would be fine and dandy, right? Nobody writes articles about each case of diabetes resulting from people switching from milk to sugar-filled pop. Just isn't dramatic enough. Is raw milk really our biggest concern these days?

I am hearing that diabetes is becoming epidemic and will shorten the next generation's lifespan.

Of course, the government subsidizes corn farming, so we can make cheap high fructose corn syrup to put in all the pop - then the government can come up with some programs to fight obesity in kids and can provide health care for all to treat the problems it helped create.

By the way, the idea that cow's milk is only for calves: Should we pasteurize the cow's udder before the calf nurses?

springvalley · #63 04/21/10, 09:52 PM

Amen DJ !!!! thanks Marc

Ernie · #64 04/21/10, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

By the way, the idea that cow's milk is only for calves: Should we pasteurize the cow's udder before the calf nurses?

Heh. Those silly calves. They'll put anything in their mouths.

Realistically though, the ability to digest milk in adults is a genetic mutation. Almost every other mammalian species loses it.

However, if you look at the historical map of the world, every civilization where that genetic mutation prospered was a strong herding society who went from nomadic or agrarian lifestyles to a very strong nation that conquered their non-herding neighbors.

So there's a lot to be said for the ability to digest milk. Let's hear it for genetic mutations!

texican · #65 04/21/10, 11:15 PM

Such is freedom... sometimes people must get sick and die... better to lose a small handful of people for freedom's sake, instead of the enforced slavery of safety.

willow_girl · #66 04/22/10, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Keep in mind that the entire point of this post was to support the "full government control of everything under the sun" agenda of many of the progressive liberals on this forum. It's part of their agenda.

Quote:

What amazes me is that people who show concern over raw milk, show absolutely no concern over the things that cause THOUSANDS of deaths per year, the very things regulated and approved by the government. Lets see some consistency with concerns, vs simply focusing on one little insignificant thing.

I earn my living in the dairy industry, so this incident is of special concern to me. As Haypoint stated earlier, this kind of negative publicity gives the whole industry a black eye.

You will note that I did not call for a ban on raw milk; I merely advised people to be careful. Choose wisely!

Quote:

I've milked in a 'REAL Dairy Farmers' parlor more than once and when you have a dozen cows in the parlor, sometimes things happen, like one of the milkers falling off and before you can get there to get it back on the cow, it sucks up a fresh cow patty and that goes into the tank.
But don't worry, it's pasturized. So now you get to drink cooked cow manure. Cause that's what happens in a REAL DAIRY FARMERS parlor sometimes which is why the gov wants it pasturized. So the germs are cooked out of the cow hockey without removing the hockey from the fluid milk

And it sounds like the same thing may have happened at the 130-cow dairy in question ... EXCEPT the milk wasn't pasteurized, so the germs WEREN'T cooked out, and now a man has suffered what may be irreparable harm as a result.

Quote:

If you are buying raw milk be careful and know your source. The conditions have to be clean to avoid contamination.

Which may lead to a false sense of security. The place may be teeming with bacteria despite LOOKING tidy. You can't see germs!

Quote:

I have added up among my relatives, over 700 person-years of raw milk drinking without any known illness or deaths. And sanitation wasn't great when I grew up compared to what I practice now.

And I'll bet you (and your relatives) are (or were) milking those cows, and handling those cows, and were exposed to and developed a tolerance to the pathogens shed by them.

It's an entirely different story when a "city person" (especially an old, young or immune-compromised one) buys a gallon of raw milk from the dairy case without ever coming into contact with a cow. Their immune system certainly hasn't been primed for a nice slug of campylobacter!

Quote:

By the way, the idea that cow's milk is only for calves: Should we pasteurize the cow's udder before the calf nurses?

An interesting point! At least some brands of the calf milk replacer that is commonly fed to dairy calves has been pasteurized. As one manufacturer's web site states: "Calves are especially vulnerable to disease. Diseases such as Johne's, Bovine Viral Diarrhea, Bovine Leukosis Virus, pasteurella, salmonella, E. coli and mycoplasma can be transmitted from cow to calf through unpastuerized milk. Biosecurity and disease prevention issues contribute greatly to the popularity and use of milk replacers. Merrick's not only purchases pasteurized milk ingredients for making milk replacers, but we also include pasteurization as a key step in our manufacturing process."

In closing: several people cited the fact that other foods also have sickened people, which is, of course, true. But I suspect that producers of those foods would ameliorate the risks if there were a way to do so that did not substantially change or damage the product -- if for no other reason than the fact lawsuits can be devastating to a businesses' bottom line!

Let's take spinach, which killed several people a few years ago. I'm not as knowledgeable about spinach as I am about cows, but I'd guess that there isn't an adequate way to kill bacteria on fresh spinach without cooking it, and thus a person who wants raw spinach has to assume the risk. Cooked spinach and raw spinach are two very different things. I'm not sure the same can be said of raw and pasteurized milk. Yes, some nutrients are lost in the pasteurization process, but I suspect the biggest difference consumers notice between raw and processed milk is the result of raw milk's lack of homogenization, NOT pasteurization!

Down from my soapbox now.

Reptyle · #67 04/22/10, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by springvalley

Well here we go again; One Reptyle being skwished under a cows hoof. He He by the way do you want to turn in your guns? I know you have some. He He Thanks my patriotic buddy, Marc

Nice dodge. Don't give up your day job...The cows may be smarter, but never forget you have opposable thumbs. If they don't appreciate that, it certainly seems someone on this forum does.

I'll give you one more chance, "my patriotic buddy" what nation was it we lived in again?

Reptyle · #68 04/22/10, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie

Heh. Those silly calves. They'll put anything in their mouths.

Realistically though, the ability to digest milk in adults is a genetic mutation. Almost every other mammalian species loses it.

However, if you look at the historical map of the world, every civilization where that genetic mutation prospered was a strong herding society who went from nomadic or agrarian lifestyles to a very strong nation that conquered their non-herding neighbors.

So there's a lot to be said for the ability to digest milk. Let's hear it for genetic mutations!

Sounds like you're skirting the edge of using the Big E word that most bible beaters hate with a passion...

QuiltingLady2 · #69 04/22/10, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNY

What amazes me is that people who show concern over raw milk, show absolutely no concern over the things that cause THOUSANDS of deaths per year, the very things regulated and approved by the government.

Lets see some consistency with concerns, vs simply focusing on one little insignificant thing.

Jeff

Jeff the thread is about Raw Milk. We are trying to stay on topic.

btw - the majority of people are concerned about thousands of deaths related to things regulated and approved by the gov. including the safety of our food supply....ie milk
OK?

JeffNY · #70 04/22/10, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuiltingLady2

Jeff the thread is about Raw Milk. We are trying to stay on topic.

btw - the majority of people are concerned about thousands of deaths related to things regulated and approved by the gov. including the safety of our food supply....ie milk
OK?

And you see absolutely no concern illustrated by anyone. But you say they are concerned..

DO SOMETHING about it, vs "thinking I have a concern".

Jeff

springvalley · #71 04/22/10, 08:22 AM

I can`t believe how rude a Reptyle can be(yes I can), I come on here usually to give some advise, get some advise, get some entertainment, learn a few things, talk to a few good people, and just enjoy myself. So all I am going to say to you, being you have never met me, is "sticks and stones" I don`t know what burr got under your saddle but maybe your just having a bad day(or month). I hold no bad thoughts toward you so have a good and blessed day, in America. Thanks Marc P.S. I enjoy talking with everyone on here, regardless if we agree on things or not.

wyld thang · #72 04/22/10, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reptyle

Sounds like you're skirting the edge of using the Big E word that most bible beaters hate with a passion...

micro-evolution, yes

macro-evolution, no evidence

just sayin

I was also going to say good point WG about city people not being exposed to and "tolerant" of bacteria, makes a huge difference.

Lyra · #73 04/22/10, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haypoint

Please, please, Lyra! Tell me you are not infering that because the milk comes from an Amish farm it is somehow free from deadly pathogens.

In every product and every line of work, people are individuals. There are Amish that build poor furnature, make cookies that are tasteless, sell horses that are lame and sell contaminated raw milk. Just a few weeks ago, an Amish dairy was shut down after a bunch of people injested enough bacteria from their raw milk to make them sick.

Amish are people, too.

No, my point is that if you know a company is putting out a bad product, then go find another source. It's not like there is only one farm selling milk in Western PA. It would be the same as someone living on the Atlantic Coast saying he can't find anyone selling fish.

JeffNY · #74 04/22/10, 01:34 PM

Would like to know if in fact the person who contracted the illnesses, if it was from milk. Or if it was from something else? Because as I said, the first question you get when your in for being sick from food, is "did you drink raw milk". How many people that have been sickened by other things, with the same disease, make it into the news?

I bet not many. No body cares if its other foods, only if its milk. The war on milk, reminds me of the war on drugs, bunch of BS.

Jeff

Pouncer · #75 04/22/10, 03:01 PM

Another observation or two:

If there were some means to test raw milk in a few minutes, that would help. To my knowledge, this is not possible today.

It helps to visit the farm and see their practises for all the animals. Are they healthy, are there any routines for sanitation, and so forth. Of course, that supposes the consumer knows what to look for when it comes to good animal husbandry. But a filthy place and poorly cleaned milking areas would give me pause.

A friend does goats and has a closed farm as well-little risk there because they are fastidious about cleaniless every single day. The goats are on testing regular too, of course.

Another person I know contracted that campobylactor (mild form I guess, not familiar with it at all) shortly after acquiring goats. I presume this was through some fault in their handling, husbandry and milking practises-does anyone know? Or is it a common bacteria that can be picked up easily?

Kmac15 · #76 04/22/10, 03:53 PM

Well I can tell you that the sickest I have ever been was with campylobacter. I got it from a salad that was cross contaminated at a restaurant.

JeffNY · #77 04/22/10, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kmac15

Well I can tell you that the sickest I have ever been was with campylobacter. I got it from a salad that was cross contaminated at a restaurant.

Yet you will never see that in the news. And I doubt the ones against the sale of raw milk will acknowledge that, that its a possibility.

The AMA is against raw milk, should it surprise anyone that they are against it? Yet they promote deadly drugs.

Something really wrong here.

Jeff

gone-a-milkin · #78 04/22/10, 07:55 PM

The article SAID the empty milk bottle tested positive for the bacteria.

I will only remind the non dairying folks that the person who milks the cows,
on that particular shift, has ALL the control of what is in your milk right then.

Do you trust them? How can you if you dont even know them?
Heck, I have worked on dairies where I wouldn't drink the milk
if certain co-workers were on shift that day.

The OP posted this article, not to stir the 'raw' debate,
but to show people that there is indeed a REAL issue with milk sanitation.

FWIW, I would have no trouble at all consuming springvalley's milk or JeffNY's either.

As long as THEY were doing the milking themselves.

navygirl · #79 04/22/10, 08:56 PM

Just as a side note, the same folks that are trying to make sure we can't drink our milk raw are the same folks that allow MSG to be labeled as "spices" and "natural flavorings", etc. They also have no problem telling us that margarine (PLASTIC) is a healthy food. Personnally, I will do my own research and eat what I know to be healthy.

willow_girl · #80 04/22/10, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Yet you will never see that in the news. And I doubt the ones against the sale of raw milk will acknowledge that, that its a possibility.

Well, I wouldn't save "never."

I Googled "campylobacter outbreak" and two of the 10 links on the first page were reports of outbreaks linked to non-dairy products (stir-fried foods and chicken). The other 8 involved raw milk.