30 y/o Pony
 

Hey all-- my sweet old pony, whom I've owned since I was a little girl, has recently had very bad diarrhea for the past month. Our vet suggested we power worm him, and it did not help. The vet ran bloodwork and only found slightly higher liver enzymes, but nothing dangerous. My old horse soaks half his stall in pee for the 3hrs he's inside. Vet says his kidneys are working adequately, but he is old and they aren't as efficient as they use to be. Since we have been blessed with cooler weather today, I decided to wash his diarrhea clumped tail and then tie it in a knot to try to keep it clean. His tail is usually so clumped with diarrhea that he doesn't even swat at flies with it anymore... It's quite sad. Vet put him on antibiotics as the medicine was cheap and it would help Vet figure out what is wrong, though it hasn't helped so far. Anyone have any idea what could be wrong? With the combination of terrible diarrhea and excessive urination, it makes me a bit worried about the upcoming winter. The horse still acts happy (he's in love with one of our other horses), but when can tell when enough is enough? I don't want him to be constantly living in his old age with diarrhea exploding all over his tail and his stall walls. He has had a wonderful life-- he's been very VERY happy these past few years has a pasture ornament at our house. If his internal organs are slowly failing, I don't think I should wait until he's suffering to maintain normal bodily functions. Sorry if this is a bit of a ramble, just kind of typing out my thoughts and wanting to hear what you all think.

**I give him Probiotics twice a day. I used to only give his Probiotics when he ha diarrhea ever now and then and they would stop it, but they don't seem to do anything now. His diet is also fine, as our vet said it should not be causing any issues-- vet also floated his teeth last week and pulled 4 rotten teeth, but Vet doesn't think that was the problem. The horse has PLENTY of grass to eat in the pasture, though he can no longer eat hay (he does like to chew on them and then spit them out into hay balls).

Has the vet run a fecal on him?

No, I'm guessing because we power wormed him. The vet explained to me what he thought was going on, and I think it had something to do with some kind of bacterial antibodies(?) or something like that? Sorry, it can be a bit difficult to recite his scientific definition. He was also not sure if the horse had rumors in his intestines. I love the horse, but do not want to fork out a lot of money. We have him on antibiotics as a cheap way to rule out what it isn't.

*tumors, not rumors

The excessive urination sounds like Cushing's disease but the Vet should have tested for it when he or she pulled blood.

Has he lost weight, or does it take forever for him to shed out in the spring? Does he have any other symptoms?

He constantly sheds, but he has been that way for ten years or so... It's just how he is. He is an alright weight right now, though this past winter he got very very thin.

So, he's always kinda fuzzy? Has he had laminitis?

The current protocol is to not worm until you have a fecal and see what is going on inside of them. There are many resistant worms now and I'd honestly go for a good fecal to get an indication of what you may be dealing with in the worm area. Even a power pac can still leave worms.

Not fuzzy, just always has hair shedding. I did a close full body clip on him this spring, and he still will come in from the pasture with hair shedding out all over his back. No laminitis, no founder either. He has a blown left knee, and his back legs are hard for him to bend-- all arthritis. (Pretty funny to see him to try run with the herd... The poor boy runs like Forrest Gump when Forrest had his legs in braces)

I'd call your Vet and ask if the blood work indicated Cushing's disease and go from there. Cushing's is a tumor in the pituitary gland and quite common in older horses.

The only thing the blood work showed was an increase in enzymes in his kidneys. Nothing that stood out as a definite for any disease, hence the Vet is trying him on antibiotics.

*increase in enzymes in his liver.

You said liver initially, was it elevated liver or kidney enzymes?

One of the common symptoms of Cushings is elevated liver enzymes.

I corrected my mistake right after that post. His kidneys are just not working as well as they used to.

He doesn't ever have an unshed coat though, and he has fantastic hooves and no fat deposits. Even without clipping, he will shed his coat out, but he doesn't seem to ever stop shedding... Never has stopped in almost ten years except for in the winter.

Also doesn't explain the excessive diarrhea.

You asked for opinions. Mine was that he has some of the symptoms of Cushing's disease.

Don't take my reply the wrong way. I didn't mean for it to sound blunt or rude, just saying that it doesn't completely fit.

He has some symptoms of Cushings,. What are you feeding him? You said he can't eat hay, just grass. Are you in one of the areas that have had excessive rainfall? If all he is eating is grass and the grass has an exceptional amount of water in it, could that be causing the excessive urination? If the grass is growing rapidly and getting lots of water it's sugar content may be higher than normal, could that be a problem?

No excessive rainfall here (sadly). The grass isn't dead, but not as lush as it has been the past few years.

He is on sweet feed with vitamins and probiotics-- the same feed he's had for many years. We talked to the vet about maybe switching him to Senior feed, but the vet says that what we are feeding him is plenty and is not causing the problem.

I'm not convinced your vet is working with you on this but I honestly don't like the idea of putting something on antibiotics just because it's cheap because it really doesn't prove anything, other than another bill at the clinic. You simply can't treat something undetected and antibiotics in an old horse can cause more of an upset than it will cure.

In my opinion, instead of poking and hoping by treating maybes, your vet needs to run actual tests.

And how much would those other tests usually cost?

I agree. If anything, abx just might irritate the diarrhea and cause more issues.

I know what my vet charges but I don't know if a crusty old vet in Okotoks Alberta but I'm nowhere near you so I wouldn't want to guess what an American vet would charge.

The medications you vet is meting out is costing money and may simply be upsetting the old boy's system or he could have something else going on altogether.

I'm going to be accused of being blunt and mean again but here it goes... There is nothing wrong with having a horse put down because you can't afford testing and/or treatment.

It's wrong to let a horse be miserable, and it sounds to me like your old guy is pretty miserable.

I haven't seen you being blunt or mean during this entire post. If you saw my previous thread about a lame horse I was dealing with, you'd see I totally agree with that point of view. Euthanize a horse of he's in pain and you are not going to pay a big vet bill to treat it-- 100% correct. Though, my horse does not seem to be in any pain other than the diarrhea he's had. He still canters as best he can and he tries to walk into the tack room to get to his treats.

Around here they recommend worming every three months, alternating wormers. Do your local vets recommend doing decals regularly then treating or just waiting for symptoms? I ask because sometimes by the time a horse is symptomatic worm load is so high that it can colic.


Nobody can say how much tests will be. A vet might order one test then, depending upon the results, order more. That can eliminate the cost of unnecessary tests.

Some vets might order a bunch of blood tests right from the start just to get them all done at one time and to make sure everything is addressed. That can save the cost of a second farm call and give you a clear idea of what is going on right from the start.

I don't quite understand what's going on. You initially said his liver enzymes were elevated then commented on his abnormal kidneys. You corrected the kidney comment. Later you said his kidneys aren't what they used to.

As we all age, none of our organs work the way they used to. My hubby, for example, has chronic kidney disease. That doesn't impact him much except that he has to be careful with some meds and get IV fluid when he has CTs (to check to see if his cancer is back).

All that confusion aside, liver disease can cause diarrhea. Does he have a higher than normal amount of fat in his blood (hyperlipidemia)? Swelling? Yellowing of skin?

Have your horse's blood sugars been tested? Could he have diabetes (usually secondary to Cushing's)? Does he drink excessively? Low blood sugar can also be associated with liver disease.

I would suggest googling liver failure, diabetes, and Cushing's Syndrome in horses.

I am not a vet but am a human nurse. Antibiotics aren't usually given to give a provider an idea about what is going on. In fact, antibiotics can blur things. If you give antibiotics before knowing what bug is making an individual ill, it's mighty difficult to tell which bug needs to be treated.

Liver disease causes diarrhea and kidney disease can cause excessive urination. Have his liver enzymes ever been drawn before? It sounds like he has had chronic, intermittent diarrhea. Could he have chronic liver disease?

Only you can know if your pony's quality of life is good enough. That is something to discuss with a vet.

Now, this is a rambling post.

Worming every three months, alternating wormers is no longer the recommended protocol. It has been found that there has been a high rate of resistance in worms in the last number of years and so now fecals are recommended to know what to worm for. Vets are recommending fecals and treating according to the results - and if you have the money to do so, repeat the fecals about 10 days after worming. But usually the first fecal should be enough unless you are dealing with a heavy load or a problem on the farm. Here are some links:

http://csu-cvmbs.colostate.edu/Docum...g-schedule.pdf

http://myhorse.com/blogs/horse-care/...ine-deworming/

http://www.horsechannel.com/horse-he...deworming.aspx

http://www.zimecterin.com/SiteCollec...ming%20%20.pdf

He was very very thin last winter and you're worried about this winter, the diarrhea is so bad that it cakes on him and he no longer even tries to get the flies off, he can't eat hay, and he has lameness issues.

What do you think the quality of his life is now, and what will it be this winter?

Are there any threads on here on euthanasia? If Hank continues to get worse, or just not get better, I won't hesitate to take this step. He's had a great life and his past few years of retirement have been of the highest quality, and since we are not planning on paying a hefty vet bill for the boy, I'd rather him die happy rather then miserable and sad.

Sorry Irish Pixie, I posted my comment while you posted yours. He isn't lame, but he does have arthritis. Read the post I just posted and you'll see my opinion.

No apology is necessary. It's just a horrible decision and you second guess yourself until you're nearly insane. I still hate making it, and I'm old-er.

There are euthanasia threads, you can use the search tool to find them.

I'm not sure if there are any direct threads on the subject but there's sure no reason you can't start one.

Just talked with my father, and he brought up how winter IS natures way of killing off the weak. We agree that if this continues with poor old Hanky, that he has indeed had a great retirement, and there will be no sadness in putting him to rest.

I typed "euthanasia" in the search bar at the top of the Equine thread, but no search results came up. I'm on the App, so maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe I just misspelled it- lol!

Go to the search main thingy above the equine forum, then go to advanced search, put in euthanasia on the left and check off equine forum on the right, and hit search. There are quite a few hits, but I have no idea what the threads contain.

I found the topics, though they did not quite answer what I was asking, so I posted a new topic.

Morning Dun!
I fought with chronic diarrhea with one of my mini mares for quite some time -- She came to me with her tail in poop dreadlocks. The previous owner had fallen on hard times and could not afford a vet, said that she had been like that for "awhile". Fecals, bloodwork, worming, teeth, probiotics, digestive supplements, check, check, check, check and check. I was constantly washing the poor girls tail and rear. Was chatting with an old timer about horses one day, they said something about longer plant fibers taking longer to digest, and that it could cause problems with some seniors. I switched my girl to soaked orchard grass pellets and her diarrhea cleared up. Don't know if that will help, but I thought I would mention it. Good luck with your old guy.