cut them loose?

I am a little confused. What you are suggesting IS allowing her to set the tone of the household.

If, as parents, you are modeling a loving family atmosphere, are fair and age appropriate with your demands and directions and set clear standards for behaviour and expectations and yet your child decides that they don't have to do anything that they don't want to do why would you just ignore this and hope it all turns out for the best? A clear case of the tail wagging the dog.

You don't have to be unpleasant or a bully you just have to have boundaries and enforce them. This can be done politely but if the situation warrants anger or disappointment there is no need to hide YOUR feelings. The only thing is that whatever you do you should do it with absolute consistency.

If your child gives you the silent treatment or leaves the laundry room in the state of a pigsty and you accept it then why would they not keep doing what works for them?

When my daughter did this, she was trying to be an adult. To set boundaries.


What she might have MEANT to say was, "If I was an adult visiting, would you ask them to take out the garbage"?

And the ANSWER would be "You are not a visitor, and adults help to take care of their homes".

But instead of speaking she complains, and so she does not get the explanation.

It is not a pleasant phase, but my daughter behaved this way for a bit also.

Yup, my DD did too at that age and her DD did the same at that age!

Have fun and consider drinking in the afternoon!

Just an idea... Take her out for a "coffee/ice cream, whatever she loves, date", tell her how proud you are of her and how hard she works, and that you appreciate her, that you love her ever so much. And tell her how important she is to you and the household, that you depend on her for helping with little things around the house, that you can't do it without her and that you appreciate her helping you so much. Just be real with her, but let her know that you need her, that she is vital to you and the home. Let her know that you don't give her chores to be "mean", but because you need her! We all need help, and helping can be so fulfilling and rewarding! And maybe make the coffee date a regular thing just for her c:

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"A world without chocolate is filled with darkness and chaos."
"Try to be the person your dog thinks you are."

I agree completely.
She's 17. She is still a child. You are supposed to support her. In fact, the law demands it. Lighten up. Be happy she is at home, not on drugs, does well in school, and is a decent kid. She is your daughter, not paid help.

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Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I was willing to ignore tantrums and bad behavior to a point. However, I did not tolerate disrespectful attitude/behavior directed at anyone else. I don't care how angry/upset etc. you are in this house you will be respectful to others PERIOD. We had 2 dd of our own plus 4 foster teenaged dd's. Life was often very unpleasant but we survived. Only one dd left home angry and that's because I refused to accept that it was okay for her to stay out all night with bf when she was 17. She informed me she was an adult and could do as she pleased -- I pointed out where the door was and she used it. That dd is now 41 and deeply regrets leaving as she did. She is/was very hard headed and stubborn about life and in general to this day always learns everything the hard way. As a parent that is hard to watch, but the fact is with that type of personality there is nothing a parent can do other than watch them hit bottom and hopefully they learn from the experience.

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This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

I don't agree with giving a 100% pass on chores. If you are part of a family/household you should contribute your share. Even if she gets a pass on chores it is totally unacceptable to trash any part of the house. She definitely would not be having a friend to stay until she cleaned up the laundry room. I think its reasonable that she doesn't have to help outside since that is not her lifestyle, but she is living in the house so she should help in the house. Its not slavery its participation in the life of the household.

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This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

Oh I remember those days! No, she is not hired help, but if she wants to live in your home it is by your rules. If she was sharing an apartment with friends, they would not be inclined to be her slaves. Neither should you.

But nagging and reminding do set them off.

We basically wrote down the rules: curfews, that we were to know where she was at all times, and what her fair share of the chores were. We also left open the option she could ask to be relieved of a given chore for a good reason. For example, if she wasn't coming home after school due to a choir concert she could arrange for me or a sib to do her animal feeding, with her to return the favor by doing one of our chores on a set date.

As to cell phone, depends how badly you want her connected. As she is a minor under your roof, if you want her semi connected get her a prepaid for emergencies only. As to the car, doesn't matter who is paying what, who's name is one the title? Unless your state allows minors to be sole owners and bars you from responsibility, you can indeed take the keys.

By 17 she should know how to be nice. While she indeed needs to individuate, she does not have to do it nastily. Re the laundry room: using it is a privilege that is revocable unless done by your rules. Period. Enforce it.

As you can tell, I'm not much for the idea that kids today "deserve" all the goodies, on their terms, and with a bad attitude to boot.

Get the book Boundaries and read it, I suggest. Make sure you pick wise battles and win them. Only difference is now you win silently at this age. When they lose a privilege tell them calmly, quietly, don't discuss or explain, and just enforce it.

Cause sure as shooting when they go out in the world they won't be pampered and carried.

I would not let her have company if she is acting that way. I would also take her phone if it is causing problems. My 17 year old son bought his own phone, but he knows I'd take it in a heartbeat if he cops an attitude. All of our kids are expected to help out, no matter how old they are. Too many parents allow their kids to run the house. Our oldest tried the attitude thing with us & she ended up moving out to her own apartment. We would not put up with it. Now that she is out, she realizes how nice she had it at home. We didn't talk for almost a year after she moved. Now she calls all the time & tells me how she misses my cooking, etc. She also struggles at times to pay for her tuition. If she would have stayed at home & minded her manners she could have applied for help using our income which would qualify her for help. Since she wanted to be so independent, she does not get that from us. She is on her own & can pay her own way. She learned a tough lesson, but she also learned she could not disrespect us & get away with it.

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I can't believe I deleted it!

LOL She WOULD be moving out. I cant see any reason to have a unpleasant Guest(and thats what she is) in my home.
I would of course explain that to her.

its not going to actually HURT her to cut her loose, and if she's not doing chores then why are you paying for her car insurance?

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I'm not bad, I'm just drawn that way.

Scrub Land's Blog

:UMNO"
AS a visitor I have always pitched in and helped. The longer the stay the more Id help. LOL its actually a matter of feeling comfortable enough to do more.
Come to think of it I don't think I have ever had a visitor that wasn't the same way.

If she lived in a dorm room in college, she would have a curfew. Some whole TOWNS have curfews! So her being home at a certain time is not a "blow to her newly felt adult status".

I generally try to pre-empt this phase, and it IS a phase. At the age of 16 (often the day after their 16th birthday), I have the "adult responsibilities/privileges" talk. By most ancient cultures, they are an adult at 16...by our laws, however, I can't kick them out. However, my responsibilities include making sure they have a roof over their head, food to eat, and clothes to wear, that is IT, and *I* get to choose what kind of food is available, what kind of clothes I buy, and whether they are allowed to sleep in their old room or in the living room closet.

Everything beyond those very basics they have to earn, either by getting an outside job and buying/paying for it themselves, or by working around the house/homestead. I pay minimum wage. "Extras" like clothes they WANT, ice-cream, etc., is deducted from this. Electricity that their "toys" use is deducted as well. (Heat and A/C is part of the "shelter" part.)

If they wish to "rent" my car for the evening, they have to pay for the use upfront, just as if they were renting from a company. Either money or chores. You want to use the car this Saturday? Fine. That will be $30, in either money or time.

And, if there is a lack of chores being done, I have no problem flipping the breaker that gives their room electricity. How long will that phone or computer run without juice? Sorry, you didn't take out the trash/do the dishes/sweep the dining room, or whatever you were supposed to do, so electricity was turned off for non-payment. Took dishes to your room to eat from and now there are none in the cupboard and your room stinks of dirty dishes and rotted food? You are no longer allowed to use MY dishes. Go buy your own, or eat sandwiches.

And they know that if I CHOOSE to do something nice, like pay their car insurance for them, it is a GIFT, not a requirement from me.

I think that teaches them to be adults more than any amount of nagging in the world.

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Peace,
Caliann

"First, Show me in the Bible where it says you can save someone's soul by annoying the hell out of them." -- Chuck

My daughter's college had no curfew, my younger daughter's school doesn't, nor did my college dorm. They'd better learn to control themselves before they get to college because no one is going to be telling them to come in on time at lots and lots of schools.

Please just keep being normal and happy and stop being critical. I asked my mom what she thought about the situation and she said it sounded like things were going very well and that you have it good with your girl.

Please stop noticing when she rolls her eyes. When DD came in today DH said, "Hi." DD said nothing. She went into her room then came out to eat a bagel. She made some comment to me and I laughed, telling DH I thought I heard some noise from the kitchen and that it might have been that funny noise I heard earlier when the door opened.

When it was time for DD to feed the horses, DH and I went to her (closed) door and I loudly said, "Do you think anybody has fed the horses?" I elbowed DH until he answered. A minute or two later DD came out and fed the horses. My point in telling you about this is that DH and I ignored and kind of made fun of DD's bad attitude. If we'd have let ourselves be hurt or offended we could have had a bad evening. As it was, our banter in front of DD's bedroom door broke the ice. All of us had a pleasant evening.

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD

It's just a hard age to get through. My DDs were both just awful until they went away to college and actually started missing their parents. Were sorry they took us and their good home life for granted. I got some sobbing phone calls from college apologizing for their previous bad behavior.

It's been all uphill ever since. My adult DDs are my best friends.

Make her do her fair share, but since she is a good kid do pick your battles. If it really isn't important, give her a pass. She may be unhappy within herself, but not ready to share with you at this point....hence the snottiness. Heck, I remember doing that myself as a teenager.

However, don't tolerate disrespect from her...just don't.

thanks so much to all. I just wasn't sure to ignore, be all happy go lucky or come down on her. as is, I just let it go. it simply wasn't worth the battle. then last night when she came home (never late!) I quietly said a few things, and now this morning all is just fine. I think I will need thicker skin for this phase, and as mentioned, learn to pick battles that are worth it. otherwise, letting it go.....but with respect. that part is non-negotiable.

how well I have it made with my girls is not lost on me either. I plan to give a bit more praise for that as well.

Sounds to me like she gets way too many choices. I don't quite understand who let kids take jobs, to get cars which they have to maintain & gas up, so they can get to work to buy gas to .... At 17 it may be late to take charge. It sounds like she is quite used to doing what she wants when she wants. But you can try. The suggestions about when to be in, where & when she goes out, how she uses the car, how much she works, etc. can all be yours. You're the parent. Ditto only cleaning her room and only "because she's having company". Doesn't do her assigned chores and keep common areas neat of her stuff? No guests.

I understand very well why people let kids take jobs even if they use their paychecks to just buy gas, etc for the car. Work experience is extremely valuable, in developing a work ethic, moving on to another job and in applying to colleges. Future employers and admissions officers want to see work experience in their applicants.

I think that a lot of parents are very needy. They need their kids to love them. They need their kids to like them. They need their kids not to be mad at them or ever disappointed with their life. A lot of kids play their parents like a violin. And in most cases the kids develope contempt for their parents that leads to even more conflicts.

I have observed that a lot of these kids grow up to be really unhappy. Oh, they get what they want for a while. Some do grow out of this behaviour but most take it with them out into the world - where most people really won't put up with you being sweet as pie one minute and downright nasty the next.

There is nothing wrong with giving your kids perks and privileges but they are not a right. I think it is important to establish that certain requirements must be met. One of those requirements would be courtesy. Not responding, being sullen and rude would be a real problem.

Privacy is also important for kids but not limitless privacy. Your room is your room but we always had the four "Fs". No food, no friends, no filth and no fhone (close enough). If we didn't want to see the disorder we closed the door. But everyone knew that at anytime we might just might walk in and look around.