Smoking Inside with Pets or Children Present ??
 

..............Was visiting with Coworker and got off on discussing smoking , So I asked her if she smoked inside around her dog and or her grandchildren , said Yes . So , I was going to ask her why she didn't go outside , but I just changed the subject . Her son and daughter in law also smoke inside around their 3 children , I was stunned to say the least but I made NO comment . , fordy:flameproofundies:

One of the usenet posters in a group where I was active did some independent statistical work on the effects of second hand smoke and came up with RADICALLY different and lower figures than are being forced down peoples throats. Agenda driven science can lose perspective, and the media is about as bright as a dead flashlight, even with all their angst.

Is it better to smoke away from kids? Probably. If I smoked, I would try to do that. Consider however just how any reaction you might have to smoking is now based on gut feeling, peer pressure, and media pressure rather than your having direct personal knowledge of the statistics.

What I find even more offensive than smoking is people who walk around with scents so strong that they would cover the smell of a polecat.

I don't know about statistics but I do know that most of the kids in my family had health problems from our parents smoking when we grew up. My brother had to be taken to the ER on vacation one time from being in the car all day with our parents smoking. Another cousin would have asthma attacks every time she spent the night at our house. Her parents smoked too, but my parents smoked very strong cigarettes. I was sick a lot growing up and have asthma now and am allergic to tobacco smoke.

Well not to be the devil's advocate here, and first off, I am a reformed smoker...but My exwife smoked during her pregnancies with all our kids, and for two years when they were all little, I lived in a house where there were four adult heavy smokers (myself included). There were 7 children living in that house, and none of us smokers ever went outside to light one up. All of the 7 kids were and are very healthy. (Six of the 7 kids went on to become excellent athletes in high school and beyond...football, basketball, soccer, track and field, softball, baseball, and running half marathons.) Only one of the kids (now 29 years old) became a light smoker himself. Of the four adults who originally smoked, I was the first to quit and now three of the four no longer smoke. I don't like it now myself, and it's more of a stink/annoyance thing, than health concerns that compels me to ask smokers to step outside when they need to light up. I don't allow smoking in my truck either...it just plains smells.

My first job was a bank teller and we had a customer who would come in wearing his after shave so strong, that the entire bank would smell of it for days.

I am a non smoker, but both my parents smoked when I was growing up and now Im broncial asthmatic.

Fordy, don't get too PC. What people do with their own family and pets in their own home is, unless it involves abusive behaviour, their own business.

I smoke. I wish I didn't but I do, I don't understand why youngsters persist in taking it up but they do. With the world population about to hit the 7 billion, I am also well aware that my smoking is not killing the world and I equally aware that much of the garbage poked at us regarding second-hand smoke is just that - garbage.

Harry I agree 100% with you about perfume - it stinks to high heavens. And as a smoker I'm not supposed to have a good sense of smell in which case I hate to think what it would smell like if I didn't smoke:grin:

Cheers,
Ronnie

No so called "kids" here, not unless less the Gkids bring up the GGkids. But I (me) do NOT allow smoking inside of my house, yes the wife smokes - outside or in the garage is as close to inside the house anyone can puff away. I do not like the stink nor see any reason that I need put up with it in my home.
Now going to someone elses home, or elsewhere, where smoking is allowed I do keep my thoughts to myself, but if the odor or smoke gets to heavy for me I leave, simple and easy.

I am a reformed smoker. I never knew how bad the smell was..Now I do. I can pick out a smoker 15 feet away, from the smell on their clothes. Thank Goodness none of my kids took it up, but unfortunately...some of the grands did. Why kids are taking it up now, with the knowledge they have, and the expense of it, is beyond me...

Exactly, Suz!

Why my children smoke is beyond me too. My father died of heart complications due to emphezima (sp?). My mother died from lung cancer (second hand smoke, no doubt). Yet they expose themselves and their children to cigarette smoke. Unbelievable!

I refuse to allow myself to be exposed to it.

And people who smoke probably don't know it, but they stink.

My friends that smoke always go out on the covered deck to smoke, when they are here.
We have a non-smoking house and they respect that.
I myself was a smoker for 40 + years. I also worked in a very large mufacturing plant, (60 acres + under one roof) with a lot of machining operations. The cutting oil would condense on the beams of the superstructure and drip off. The big air movement fans had to be steam cleaned every 30 days, because of oil dripping off.

At 57 years old, I developed asthhma, first time in my life. I also was in stage one emphysema. My pulmonary specialist told me I needed to get out of the Factory and to quit smoking. Well, at least I quit smoking. But, I worked there another 6 years.
It took a few years for my breathing to get back to where it ought to be, after I retired. I haven't had an asthma attack in about 5 years
But, fourteen years after giving up my pipes & tobacco, I still miss it once in a while.
I don't smoke though

I think that is child abuse. It's cruel to both the dog and children. If she wants to kill herself, so be it. But why force the children to be ill too?

^^^ This!

Another thing many people don't realize is children who live in a smoke filled environment smell like smokers. Years ago, they didn't stand out at school or church functions because more/most adults smoked but now that less people smoke, the poor kids get picked on by their peers as being 'stinky or smelly' and it's due to no fault of their own.

I had asthma as a child, bad enough to take medication. I am a non smoker now as an adult but when I have to walk through a cloud of smoke such as in front of a building or in some states inside the building; I end up having an asthma attack. It's not fun and I find I'm avoiding being out in public more & more to stay away from a possible asthma attack.

I can't stand the smell of smoke. That, and it makes breathing difficult for me. could be why I really hate it. had to get breathing treatments as a kid everytime I was aroudn a smoker. YUCK. I would never do that to myself, my kids, my animals or anyone else and if you smokers would PLEASE get away from the doors where you force others who CHOOSE not to breath that stuff to breath it, it would be much appreciated. Oh, and pick up your butts off the ground. Noboday wants to see that LITTER.

Why do people do that? I work with a woman who must go through a bottle of purfume a week. Thankfully her desk is at the other end of the building.

as a former smoker, two things would upset me....

Someone that would come up and start harping on me about my smoking habit and someone that would come up and say "you stink".

Especially some women who would pour the perfume on so thick I wondered how they could ever smell cigarette smoke.

upset or not, the truth of the matter is, smokers DO STINK. everytime my co-workers come in from smoking outside, its enough to gag a magot. Smokers choose to smoke, thats their right, I jsut wish they would stop stepping on other peoples' right to NOT have to smell/ smoke it along with them.

Every time a woman walks by with perfume on is enough to make me gag as well.

Being aware of your scent is just as much important as being aware of your actions. Sometimes more. We have friends that just the smell of certain items is enough to trigger allergic reactions.

I agree, I don't wear perfume either. I avoid those folks too. But I happen accross way more smokers then perfume abusers every day.

While I was undergoing the cancer treatments for throat cancer 8 years ago I had quite a bit of free time on my hands and looked into the research that was available online. It took a lot of googling to find the studies involved, and a lot of time sifting through the results of the various studies. What I found out was rather surprising to me. The largest study and the one that was used to penalize the tobacco industry during the big lawsuits involved second hand smoke. The results of the affects of this study established that people exposed to second hand smoke for a period of 20 years developed tobacco related cancers at a rate 20 percent higher than those not living in a household with smokers. The problem I have with that is the way the "20 percent" was arrived at. approx 4 million people were involved in this study. 2 million in each group... those exposed to second hand smoke for a minimum of twenty years and those who had never lived with a smoker. of the 2 million not living with smokers only 10 had developed cancer while in the group of folks exposed to second hand smoke had 12 members who had developed cancer. A difference of 2 people.... yep thats 20 percent of 10 and thats the percentage that was touted all through the big lawsuit... and has pretty much stood on the record by all the anti tobacco groups since. However if one does the math properly you come up with 2 divided by 2 million.... or .00001 percent or what is known as an insignificant difference. Of course in todays pc world that is not nearly as dramatic as being able to shout "second hand smoke increases chance of cancer by 20 percent". This study did not go into the other second hand smoke related health problems, but cmon kiddies.... second hand smoke is not the boogey monster that many would claim it to be.

Well, before we were forced to go outside to smoke... we didnt hang around the doors. We smoked at our work stations. ;)

I would argue that smoking in the house with children is, in fact, abusive, because of the harm it can pose to their health. Most people who have been in or around smoking homes have seen it. It's not knee-jerk.

For those of you who smoked inside and your kids stayed healthy, you were lucky.

This is a separate issue from the OP, but I do not disagree.

It's none of my business and I've smelled worst offenses coming from the human body.

Not entirely....

Trying to illustrate the point...

Manners dictate sometimes, you just smile, nod and walk away.

Personally, someone came up to me and started asking about smoking inside, I'd tell em nunya and their nose is getting too big.

I grew up in a home where both of my parents smoked. My dad wouldn't think twice about lighting up at the dinner table when he was done and we weren't (yuk!). One of my chores was to clean ashtrays, now tell me that isn't gross to a child or someone who doesn't smoke. Since then I have always dealt with earaches, not fun.

I agree with the perfume thing too. Especially Giorgio or Opium perfumes, talk about causing one to get a migraine and want to vomit.

12 people that didn't have to get cancer. 12 people that chose not to smoke yet suffered the consequences anyway. 12 people that had to live with the fear that cancer brings, and go through the treatments. 12 people that had families that were living in fear of the next dr appointment, etc.

If you were one of the 12, you wouldn't think it was "just" 12 people.

12 people that statistically would have ended up with cancer anyway.

selective use of information isn't right either.

When the numbers of cancer from second-hand smoke became higher than the smokers, it became safer to _be_ a smoker than be around one. Somehow, I don't think anyone is going to start for that reason...

How odd that back when most households had smokers, asthma wasn't rampant in the population. When most households had dirty pets, allergies weren't as common. I _never_ heard of anyone dying from a peanut...

I'm a reformed smoker, yes, it stinks, and no, no one smokes in the house now. I just have to consider it's more the things the government may have done that has more effect than some things that are blamed... JMO YMMV

You are entitled to your opinion (and I say that in the general sense not directed at Fordy). Now get out of someones else's home and stop trying to tell others how to live. If you do not like how they live.. don't visit, if you feel that IN YOUR OPINION they are morally wrong.. don't be friends in them.

BUT... stop trying to tell others how to live. Rant over.

Now I have to commend you for keeping your shut.

................I have no problem with adults participating in any deleterious UNhealthy habit they wish to waste their money ON ! It seems to me that parents who smoke in the presence of their children show great DISrespect for them and a lack of self discipline in controling their bad habits . This is especially true given the level of scientific knowledge that society has access too , currently ! , fordy:shrug:

A lot of women are insecure about body odors. It is so worrisome at certain times of your life. You wonder if everyone can smell you.

And as an outsider looking in...

Not your place to say a word about it either.

Same can be said for folks that want to sit around the TV and drink alcohol all day too.

This is very similar to what the usenet poster found. Shygal, please re-read that post. It wasn't 12 who got cancer because of second hand smoke. The control group had 10 who got cancer WITHOUT the second hand smoke. The 2 (TWO) people is so small a difference within the group that it is statistically NOTHING.

I feel the need to harp on the issue a little more because this type of study is the junk science that plays a part in dumbing down the public, and does far more harm than good.

We all have little issues that we hate. Someone picks their nose at the supper table and we go "GROSS!". Some researcher paid by a tissue company comes out and pronounces... "We have done a study of two million people. Of those who picked their noses, there was a 100% increase in the nose falling off." The gullible go "SEE! I TOLD YOU IT WAS A BAD HABIT!!!" and jump up and down in glee. In reality, one of the people in the study had a cancer of the nose (probably from smoking) and it fell off. NOBODY had their noses fall off as a result of nose-picking. However... the study sold more kleenex. THAT is the type of junk science you are being asked to believe AND PROMOTE by agreeing with it in whole or in part. You are being asked to consciously be party to a lie and suspend your higher reasoning functions.

You ask where the money is in stopping smoking? That is more complex, but it is a battle of titans. Cigarette makers have money, but insurance companies are even more vicious and have even bigger profits to protect. Smoking in the third world is fine. Those people aren't insured. 'nuff said.

Only by stepping back from personal beliefs and biases can the dirty goggles of newspeak and corporate manipulation be removed.

Lying in the cause of public perception is rarely a good thing. The notable exception is military planning, where I EXPECT hidden technologies and plans as part of the way we are protected. False smoking studies are pandering at best.

If YOU think smoking is a dirty habit, YOU are 100% entitled to that perception. You probably are right. Backing your perception up with false claims demeans you and actually reduces your power and impact.

I'll never understand why some people have to marinate their bodies in a scent!

A very dignified lady once told me that four or five sprays on different places on the body is enough. Behind each ear, one spray on the chest and one on each wrist!

I have even had my DH come near to me to check if my cologne is evasive enough.

Both my parents smoked. This is probably why some of us have asthma. Of eleven kids, only three became smokers, none are now.

Second hand smoke causes ear infections in babies. This is because when they are laying down the eustachion (sp) tube in their ears doesn't close and the smoke gets into the ears. When I see a pregnant woman smoking or parents smoking in the house with their children my esteem for them drops. Go outside!

I don't allow smoking in my house.

Maura one of my neighbors, who I like very much, was a smoker, her latest child had so many ear infections...constant ear infections. her mother always smoked like a chimnea inside with the baby. The mother is in very poor health now and she's only in her 40's. Had to have surgery and they made her quit smoking or they wouldn't do it. Since she;s quit smoking, the young one has had ZERO ear infections. I could never stand to be inside that house or around her when she smoked. her boyfriend is friends with DH, and knows the rules that in my house, no smoking. I had to kick him out when he argued with me about that. I GET SICK around smoke, and thats not in my head. I actually CAN'T breath. Her otehr kids, were constantly sick too, from all that smoke. I respected her less because of that.

I quit 12 years ago. Cigarette smoke smells terrific to me. I liken it to smelling someone grilling steak next door. I made up my mind when I quit that I wasn't going to object to others doing it around me. They can do as they please.

As for the dangers of second hand smoke, it's nonsense. I'm not pretending it's good for you, but I can't believe that the small amount people pick-up second hand carries significant health risks. If you don't like it that's fine, but feeding me nonsense about clear and present danger relinquishes any credibility to your argument. Penn & Teller did an episode on it.


Live & let live. I support you doing your own thing. If smoking is your thing then I have no objection.

I quit smoking about 12 yrs ago after yrs of trying. I can smell cigarette smoke from a car beside me at an intersection (with the windows closed). I was around heavy smokers all my life.

I wouldn't visit where people smoked in the house. It's their choice but it's also my choice to avoid it. As far as children are concerned--if the kids have asthma or allergies, I think it's pretty close to child abuse.

I smoke--wherever I want to--on my own property. When I go to town, automatic relfex is snuff cigarette out in ashtray, grap purse, open truck door, get out. So, I am not one of those people hanging out around doors smoking--I smoke but I hope I can say my mama raised me right and not only is that rude, it it just tacky. Throwing butts on ground, nope, well, once in a while out back when I am watching the chickens, love to see the scurry then they get about a foot away and just freeze--too funny, but, I digress.

My two granddaughters, 11 and 12, come to visit every other weekend. I do smoke while they are here but, since I only smoke in my bedroom anyway, they should be fine since their bedroom is at the other end of the house. My cat, Tigger, is exposed but, I think he likes it! Probably second hand addicted. However, he is my cat, and it is my bedroom in my house on my completely paid for, we have the deed property, so . . . . .

I think the problem is, in today's culture there is a mentality enculurated from birth by various entities, that life should be a rose garden and if someone does something to pee in your flower bed they should be forced stop immediately. However, in the words of my dear departed mother, "God never promised you a rose garden, life is hard and fair is a fantasy". Everybody is so "me me me me I I I I. . ." we have forgotten as a culture how to live and let live as our parents and others before them took for granted. If I listed the things other people do that annoy me or that I think are wrong behaviors, it would take up too much band width. What we have to relearn is to live and let live and "sweep your own doorstep clean before you bring the broom to mine".

I will not comment on the issue of smoking itself. My comment is purely regarding the quote above. The math is not wrong. If 10 people in the control developed cancer and 12 people in the study group developed cancer that is a 20% increase. Even if you want to look at the entire population of the study the result is the same. In group 1 the rate of cancer was 1 out of 2,000,000 (or 0.0005%) while in group 2 the rate of cancer was 12 out of 2,000,000 (or 0.0006%). An increase from 0.0005% to 0.0006% is 20%.

I have to question the fact that in a study of 2,000,000 only 10 developed cancer (I use the term only a as a relative term, not meaning that its not bad). Was the study looking at only a specific type of cancer or cancer in general? I would expect the rates of cancer to be much higher than 0.0005%.