Church Issue

He is the author of the "purpose driven church", "purpose driven life", etc.

He is an SBC preacher, but preaches the same stuff Robert Schuller did and was trained by Schuller. It is repackaged Peale in some ways.

He also brings the business management teachings of Peter Drucker into the church.

In other words, he is "outcomes based."

Set a goal of how many new members of what demographic and go find out what those lost folks think a church should say/do/sing/look like.

A lot of us still think Jesus Christ gets to say what a church should say/do/sing/look like.

Those He adds to His church will be there. And getting their backsides in a pew and their bucks in the plate is all for nothing if He doesn't add them to the church.

In short, RW focuses in my opinion on what the carnal heart wants, not what the Good Book says.

By SBC, do you mean Southern Baptist Church? I'm SBC and I wasn't aware of this. He's way off base from our beliefs.

You DO remember your Gavin DeBecker and "The Gift of Fear", right.??
TRUST your GUT! It is a message!

Yep...Southern Baptist. And, yep...he's WAY off base.

Our little church closed due to a pastor who had an absolute knack of offending people. The first to leave was the family who had sponsored him!

I heard a conversation once between two men, one Christian and one not. The non-Christian man was saying that he "worshiped" at the local bar and that they never had disagreements like was splitting the other's church. The wise Christian man calmly stated that Satan already owns the soul of everyone in the bar so puts all his efforts spreading discontent on churches. I think that's so true.

As a Christian I think the discontent in churches happens when we start looking at other people rather than keeping our eyes focused on Christ. If the church is no longer focused on Christ, its no longer a church.

I like the idea of having a home Bible study with your friends from the church. I'd have it of an evening so that it doesn't conflict with church services so you cannot be accused of causing the problem with attendance. Make sure the study stays focused on God's word and not the church's problems.

__________________
This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

This has to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard. Just because someone's in a bar doesn't mean they belong to Satan.

__________________
~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

Satan might think he owns people in bars, but the loud music there protects them from hearing his message. If a bar can be a more reliable source of spiritual comfort than a church, then the church has problems. Ignoring those problems and just scheduling an extra Bible study class doesn't look like the right solution.

I must go over to our local bar and tell them the news.

(Where do people come up with that nonsense? Do they stay up nights thinking about silly stuff to post on the Internet!??

I have a question for all you good christians that are at bars, Doesn't staying out late on Saturday night make it diificult to get up for Sunday morning services?

Sorry, this is truely sad. I hate to see any church be split like this. if it's truely important to you stay and fight to save the church. ink this is why no church should jump to quickly in hiring a pastor, we went about nine months before hiring our current one and glad we did, we ended up with a wonderful man of God leading our church.

__________________
"A life removed from the soil is one that quickly loses touch with reality. And a culture with no agrarian context becomes arrogant in it's cleverness, and loses it's humility"-Joel Salatin

And what about the biker church here that holds Sunday service at the local biker bar? I went there for a time. It is truely a spirt lead group with a minister who wears leather and jeans and preaches as close to fire and brimstone as you can get. Would still be there but it kicks my ashma into high gear to be in a room where people have been smoking even if was 8 hours earlier and no one does during service. (bar is closed also)

We went through the same thing. After leaving a church congregation we loved but a preacher we did not agree with, I think looking back now it was a mistake. We did join another church a short distance away for 7 years and during that time we lost touch with our former friends and people who had always been so kind and good to us. Now we are back at the first church (which has been through two more preachers) and I feel so at peace. The preacher does set the tone for the church, but the congregation is the soul of the church. I have a much different attitude now. When I hear or see families that seem to be involved in a power struggle, I make it clear that I am seeking God's will for my life and that is not a part of it! It is a hard road and I hope you find a decision that will give you peace.

I'm just wondering if there are any churches in America who still teach the Word according to God instead of the word according to Rick Warren.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is, unfortunately we had to leave it when we moved from CO back here to MO. And we really, really miss it.

We are struggling here to. We were attending the church I grew up in and Bill was asked/volunteered to help review the bylaws. That's when it all went downhill. As he was reading these to me I started pointing out to him that in certain areas they were not following the Bible. He was not working at the time so he had plenty of time to research the Bible, called our former pastor and assistant pastor to make sure he was interpreting the Bible correctly. In the end we walked away. A week later we learned the pastor resigned (not related to us leaving) and learned something about him that thru us for a loop. We had no clue about his lifestyle.

Started attending a church in the town we lived in, at the time. We knew the pastor and his wife and several other people in the church. We even taught a 10 week financial class based on Biblical principals. But it still was not spiritually fulfilling. We had been talking for several months about what to do. Then the pastor and his family decided to leave and move to TX. They left 3 weeks ago.

Just yesterday we decided to visit the church I grew up in again. They have a new pastor and we wanted to hear him. We will be meeting with him, at some point, outside of the church to discuss his philosophy and where he sees the church going. We will be interviewing him to see if want to come back and try again. If not, we will, again, be looking for a church home.

I thought I'd chime in on the bar thing. I was a kid in Milwaukee and it seemed like the was a bar in every neighborhood and sometimes more than one. Every family I knew hung out in bars. But they were different than now. They seemed more family friendly and a place where you could go and the whole family had a good time. Many times there were as many kids as adults in the places. I don't remember any vulgar language or fights. It was just fun. And after all was said and done, all of these people also attended church every Sunday. Being a little kid, I'm sure I missed a lot but I have no doubt that there were hangovers in the pews because church was not something you dared to miss.

Nomad

We are in a part of Co where either the church is Catholic, Word of Faith, Rick Warrenized,liberal mainline, or hyper fundamentalist.

I'm Baptist. Closest SBC church is extremely Warrenized. We searched and searched and drove quite a distance to find a good one.

But Warren's New Age influence is again creeping in, along with hyperfundamentalism.

We haven't left completely as SS is good. But for worship we're more likely to be at a local mainline church. Don't care for their denomination's teachings, but the LOCAL church is more faithfully preaching and teaching the Bible than the Baptists are around here.

And for this over the hill Baptist, saying we've left off preaching the gospel for preaching market based positive thinking is totally heartbreaking.

Maybe that is why your other preacher needed to be gone for a while, so that this situation could be corrected.

__________________
http://maysmissive.blogspot.com/

I'm surprised you haven't heard of him, Ardie. I thought you were Missouri Synod Lutheran.

The LCMS has really been pushing the "seeker friendly/purpose driven" drivel. It's what drove us from our local LCMS congregation in IL. Don't know if there are any still around, but there were a few websites set up with the theme of preserving the LCMS and solid doctrine.

The Wittenburg Door has taken a few swipes Warren and the watered-down wine he peddles.

Willow Creek et al are pretty much the same thing.

__________________
Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

REALLY? I think I'm going to go googling... Nick and I used to attend a Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod congregation, but they decided to "become more relevant" per Saddleback Theology (as if Jesus is somehow irrelevant? Give me a break...)

ANYway, we eventually "unchurched" ourselves or, as I prefer to say, "We're de-institutionalized."

The Spirit led us away from a mainline denominational group here when the pastor was preaching out-and-out lies about sin, to the point where she was making things up. When I called her on it (privately) and pointed out to her that the Greek doesn't say what she was saying it said, she accused me of gossip and character assassination!

Yeah.

We're still good friends with some of the people from that congregation, but we're disappointed that the good folks there don't take issue with the namby-pamby coming from the pulpit, nor the pastor's absolutely baseless lies and accusations against me.

Living out our faith doesn't require membership in a "church body" or any other bureaucracy-driven group. Living out our faith means we follow the Spirit as we strive to become more like our Savior every day, while building relationships with our sisters and brothers who also are following The Way.

Melissa, have you read the book "So You Don't Want to Go to Church Anymore"? A dear sister in the Lord gave me a copy, which I've already passed on to someone else. But you can read the book in its entirety here:

http://www.jakecolsen.com/contents.html

God bless you - ALL of you! - as you seek His good and perfect will!

__________________
Je ne suis pas Alice

http://homesteadingfamilies.proboards.com/

If people actually studied (feasted upon) Gods words, many churches would be empty.
Reading the Bible for myself, studying it, praying about what I was reading, all without some preconceived notion of what I had been taught by someone that it "really meant' is the reason I left the Church of my youth and the reason I am in the Church I am today.