Church Issue

This is a very good idea.

If he comes from a shady background (only phrase I can think of) and has only been with Christ a few years maybe satan is still in attendance trying to lead him astray. The seemingly bragart ways, the distraction while preaching all say he needs a lot of prayer. And maybe an older male church leader to befriend him and help him find his way. Just an opinion from someone who lost all faith in churches many years ago, because of a preacher who let satan win.

You say there are only 3 families left, can you go where your friends have gone for a while. Check back in a while and see what is going on. I would think the preacher would be trying to get to know the people and see why they are all leaving, or is he just a speaker. He needs to minister to his flock. I have seen this several times and if you aren't a leader in the church there is little chance of change. You need to be ministered to not preached at every week....James

We had a similar problem with a pastor who was splitting the church. This was a Missouri Synod Lutheran church and the pastor decided that he was totally in charge. Some members supported this because "he was the pastor", even tho the constitution was very clear. Many members just left, but several of us started a home church with those we were close to. Several years later we meet in a church, have 6 retired Pastors as members, are supporting a church in a small town in central America, an are the type of church we wanted to be.
the only regret any of us have is that we didn't leave sooner.

I hear you, Melissa.

It is the same deal in our church.

You probably couldn't find a more caring and loving minister on the face of the planet, but the delivery of his message is awful, week after week. I can't really lay my finger on it, but the tone of the message is off. As well, I think he gets so emotionally moved by Christ's love, but he is unable to convey that same feeling to the rest of the congregation.

He is at retirement age, but the congregation just gave him another 4 year contract.

For us, it is hard. This is the church I grew up in, and just 10 years ago, the church was running 300 every Sunday, and well over 75 adults on Wednesday nights, not coutning the teens. We're down to just 75 on any given Sunday, and I often wonder how the church keeps its doors open.

FWIW, I heard that the church our minister left to come to our church is now booming.

Again, one of the finest men you'll ever meet in your life, and a real Christian, but the Sunday service sermon is much, much, much to be desired.

Have you chec ked with any of the others who have left and see where they are going. Maybe the ones that have left can meet in someones home and continue the "group" meetings and question and answer sessions that you enjoyed until such time as he leaves. Either way the family sponcering hom will proably turn against the rest of you if and when he leaves. And if they control the church then you may as well start looking for another ,or start your own!

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"Whose woods these are I think I know
His house is in the village tho...."

Doesn't your church have a church board? Elders? Deacons? It sounds like there ought to be a meeting yesterday about the future of the church.

Melissa, over the years I've learned a very important lesson. Listen to the Lord when He's speaking to you. Sound's like He's speaking to you now or you'd not be having those uneasy feelings.

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Moms don't look at things like normal people.
-----DD

First of all, you're not talking about the church; you're talking about a local assembly. The church is the entire body of believers worldwide.

Second, attending meetings is only part of what being a believer is. If that's all you're doing, it's no wonder that you're feeling beat down and not built up. Small groups of believers practicing the "one another's" with each other, in an active way, is what being a Christ-follower looks like (from the 'inside').

Third, it is most common that weekly meetings are used to worship corporately and to 'teach' the congregation. Is the pastor effective at teaching?

Finally, while church is not only about us, it is important that we "bear one another's burdens", "love one another", and so on. If you aren't feeling this in any real way, perhaps another local assembly is what you need right now. Adding a small group or another service might be a good idea, whether or not you leave the current assembly.

The model we have for church now doesn't look like the model in Acts. This a result of our surroundings changing rather significantly (a blessing of being in a country free of religious persecution). The church in Acts lived together and met all the time because they had to. They trained one another, shared with one another, then went out into a hostile world and fought the good fight of sharing the gospel. They came back, bound each other up, shared their battle stories, and did it all again the next day. Church was a field hospital, mess hall, training center, and home. To get all these things today, we need small groups (not a service once a week).

Anyhow... all that aside. It is important that you feel supported, and that you are motivated as a Christian, but don't assume this must happen through the weekly service. There are other ways and places.

Praying!

R

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When faced with issues in life, where do you look for the problem; out the window, or in the mirror?

I heard a serman one time where that it was preached that its not your decision to leave a church but you should wait for a signal from god. Maybe your need for a restroom in the middle of his service was your signal.

My best friend (since 6th grade...[46 years] ) is a minister. He is an incredibly talented preacher. If I lived closer to his church, I would attend. Despite that his congregation has grown since his arrival, there are still those who feel he is not "their style". No matter how talented a clergyman might be, no congregation will ever have unanimous endorsement of their minister. I'd say to "shop around", and if people ask, I'd be honest with them.

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"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow the fields of those who don't."-Thomas Jefferson

One family is putting their desires above the good of the church. If they can't see that attendance is poor...what will they see? Do they have a relationship with this man that makes it hard for them to tell him he needs to go?

1 Timothy 3

Qualifications for Overseers and Deacons

1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task.
2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.
4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect.
5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
7 He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.
8 In the same way, deacons are to be worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain.
9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.
10 They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.
11 In the same way, the women are to be worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.
12 A deacon must be faithful to his wife and must manage his children and his household well.
13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.


The first thing I would do is make sure that this man falls in line with what Scripture says. Does this man, meet the above criteria?

Not knowing what the congregation is used to, I can't really answer.

My gf, went to easter service once. I asked her how it was, and she said 'I went to be inspired, and all they talked about was tithing'. She never went back. Some folks just want a feel good pep talk (lots of mega churches in my area do just that, and they are wall to wall). Some folks just want to hear the fire and brimstone stuff...
Somewhere in the middle is the "Full Counsel of God".
If your little church is empty, because of this man, then the elders of your church need to man up and sit down with this man and tell him.

Again, I don't know you, but reading this I would say one of two things:
1. You do not want to hear hard truths.
2. The Holy Spirit has you discernment antenna's up and working. The Spirit is leading you away from deception. The Spirit KNOWS what the evil one is up too.....and He is giving you this "uneasyness" to get you to do something!

I understand passion in a message. I understand using examples (parables) to get a point across......but, THIS is why the Lord said recent converts should NOT be in charge!!

I was in a Bible study group, that was AMAZING, with 15 other women. One lady (about 83ish) said something that really rings loudly in my head:
Hell is gonna be filled with 'good' people, and Heaven will be filled with a lot of "bad" people.

Again, this is why Scripture says that a recent convert should not be in charge. I would NEVER EVER go into a leadership role (well, first because I am a woman) because I came to know the Lord at 33, and there was a LOT of sinning going on before I met Him. I could not handle the whispers and hissing in the halls, if someone found out some of the things I did when I was a kid......
It's so easy for Christ to forgive, and it's so hard for man to be like Christ in this area (preaching to the choir here)
I quit going to church for a lot of reasons.
I miss the Bible Studies.
I miss the pastor at the first chuch I went too. He was a "straight from the Word, no fluff" kinda guy.

If relationships are very important to you....call the elders and have them talk to this man. (Matthew 18)
If not, call those who have left, and have a Bible study / prayer group at different homes each week.
Or, seek a new church home.
I am so sorry this is happening......It's heartbreaking.

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I am sure of two things: There is a God, and I am not Him.
The movie Rudy

Somewhere in the middle. Well put. Christ isn't a cheerleader telling us how great we are, and God didn't put us here simply to bide our time on the way to hell. The message should be challenging, but not condemning.

Melissa, I hope your congregation can sort out its priorities soon, or you'll have to find some other way. It doesn't have to be a complete break with the remaining church family members, just a difference in spiritual need.

There is one family who is pretty much the driving force behind this church- especially the woman. There are five elders in the church, two of whom have not been attending regularly due to their work schedules and I am not sure if they have even heard him speak. I missed a few weeks due to illness from chemo and was not there, they may have attended those weeks. One of the elders is a close friend of our family. I was there visiting one day and his wife asked me what I thought of the preacher. I hesitated a minute wanting to put my thoughts into words and said that to me he almost seemed fake. She looked at me for a minute and said that is the exact same word her husband had used. He has gone back several times to listen to this preacher, but feels like he won't be going back in the future. The other two elders are the husband and father of the woman who is pretty much in charge of things.

The church I attended for many years had a different way of doing things. The elders would meet with a prospective preacher as a group. If they all agreed he would make a good candidate they would invite him to preach before the congregation. He would preach for 2-3 weeks, then they would meet together again and decide if he would a good person to be the preacher. If they all agreed, then it was put to a vote before the members of the congregation. Every member had one vote and they were counted publicly. By this point everyone usually voted yes. Over the years I can only recall one no vote.

In this case I feel like very few people had a voice in the decision making process.

To my knowledge the people who haven't attended, or who are attending sporadically are not attending elsewhere at this time. I have thought of an in-home Bible study. I actually like in-depth studies and topics.

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I have seen many churches fall apart for many different reasons. It hurts to see the people that we have grown so close to leave our lives and no matter if we stay friends or not it will never be the same. I looked around one time during service thinking of all the people that had left. Some had moved away, some had gotten mad and left, some had died. I became so upset I could not sit there any longer. I walked home( not very far) ranting and raving to God how unfair it was to lose all these people I loved. About half way He stopped me in my tracks and I heard these words. " I will never leave you and I will never leave them." I realized that life is ever changing and we are not put here to sit in the same building and be comfortable but to learn and grow. I believe there are a lot of people God wants us to help and many He wants to help us but if we stay where we are that can not happen. Now when I hear of this happening I don't feel sad but excited knowing God is sending His children on a new adventure. Sort of like moving on to the next grade at school. This is just my opinion so don't hit me to hard.

Oh Melissa, I am so sorry. This is so NOT in line with Scripture.
I would seek out those who hunger for the Word, and Seek to know Him, and do in home studies. Again, I am so sorry.

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I am sure of two things: There is a God, and I am not Him.
The movie Rudy

I do have that issue of liking to settle in. I am generally content. I can remember times of such great joy in that little church- just surrounded by friends and family, great singing, an excellent preacher. It really felt just right to me. And right now with the other issues in my life healthwise- I crave that comfort and the feeling of rightness. I was talking to one of my friends who said that things would never be the same at church again, and I know that is true. But it makes me sad.

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I know, that has been on my heart for a while. However when our preacher was there it did not seem so obvious I guess.

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I haven't read all the responses and I will later.

We just have went through a similar situation with our church!

We talked it over between ourselves for a long time and we left, but not before sending the Elders a letter of resignation regarding our membership. The ironic thing is since sending that letter, we've gotten THREE phone calls about it. That is three more than we ever received before.

I want to go to a church where I'm happy to be there.

Perhaps because your former preacher really did KNOW scripture. The new one may not.

Melissa, here is what I would try to do. If my husband agreed (I am not sure if you are married or not, but I feel a small connection with you for a few reasons)

We would contact those we were close too and invite them to supper to discuss our options. MY favorite option would be to write a co letter to the church and tell them what you have told us. Tell them that letting a woman run the show is outside scripture. Tell them that this man is not doing the job, and that until these issues are resolved you all will be meeting separately in one another's homes. Make sure you back up every point you make with scripture, in context. 9I hate when folks try to convince me and leave off half a verse...)

Please remember, my advice comes from my pov and experiences. I am a Bible literal conservative Christian and I believe the church should meet as it used to in small groups not big churches. In folks homes is preferred. I think small churches in each neighborhood are better than 6 big churches in a town, kwim? I also believe THE CHURCH is not the building but the believers in it. As a believer I can attend any religious service that is Bible based and be at home.

Keep in mind the admonition in Mat. 18 to go to the offender with 2 or 3 witnesses. Follow what God tells you in handling this and God will give you HIS desired outcome, may not be yours but our will is unimportant if it conflicts with God's plans.


Now, sometimes I can see a preacher addressing hard issues, but not every Sunday. Plus if he is always bold and loud, where is the meek humility a servant of God is to employ at all times?

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2Ti 1:7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and self-control.
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