How do I help my mom?

tink, I'm not sure what you mean about doing what is necessary so my kids aren't asking the same question in 50 years. Do you mean I should get myself checked? Yes, I do plan to one day. We are all well aware of this being a real possiblity for any or all of us.

When I say she can't live alone, I mean because of the hoarding and the rotting food in the fridge and that sort of thing. Also not handling upkeep of cars and home. She has never been confused. I would see that with my grandmother where for a moment you might see confusion. This woman drove herself from Alabama to my sister's in Illinois by herself this past fall. She retired from a demanding job this past fall.

My sister has read this thread and appreciates the input. She is trying to make an appointment with her doctor. Mom doesn't have a primary care physician yet. I don't know if it will make it easier knowing it's not just behavior but is mental. She does feel better knowing that others feel it is mental and we aren't bad for thinking we might have to take drastic steps if possible.

Okay, her doctor is out of town and won't be back for a week so she probably can't get in there before Mom leaves. I might try to get her into my doctor whiles she's here and then she can take up with a doctor in Ill when she goes back.

Once again, I want to thank everyone for their support and input.

So sorry that you and your family are having to deal with this!
One thing i'm thinking about which I don't think has been mentioned is that in old age a lot of people revert to habits from their upbringing. The hoarding of out of date food, not repairing the car, house etc even though she has the money makes me wonder if she was brought up in poverty and in her old age (sorry I don't know if you mentioned her exact age?) has a dread of spending money in case it runs out. This is quite common with people living alone and when they die their house is rammed full of junk they couldn't bear to throw away. As for a solution - is there any way now she has retired she could move to a place of her own near to either you or your sister? I think living with her would be very difficult, but if she was near enough for you to pop in daily and check on her, clear out the fridge etc it would be better.

That is the right answer. You cannot and should not force anything onto her. Set rules.... She cannot live with you due to her behavior possibly harming the children. She is responsible for her own welfare (car, rent, food). If she needs help, and she asks for it, then you point her in the right direction to get help such as an auto mechanic shop, house cleaning service, or whatever.
This woman held down a job long enough to retire. She raised her children. She should not be forced into an institutional nursing home type setting, at least not by you. It would tear your family apart, and it is just not something you should have a part in. If her health/mental status gets bad enough to need health care, then let a doctor be the one to force her into it.

candynitter, this isn't a recent thing with her not wanting to take care of things. She used to get friends, coworkers, friends of ours, etc. to do repairs on her home and vehicles for only the cost of the materials or parts. She did grow up very poor so the penny pinching is probably from that. However, that is about the only area she penny pinches. It's nothing for her to go out and buy a top of the line refrigerator.

She also has no problem getting rid of certain things. What she doesn't throw out are boxes that have recipes or coupons on them. She will have boxes all over the place that she intends to cut the coupon or recipe off of. Same thing with things that are recyclable. She will put them all over the place but not actually put get them together to take to recycle.

Mekasmom, she literally will not call a repair shop or contractor. We have tried. She will instead make herself out to be a victim and get a friend or coworker or neighbor to do it for her. If it's something they can't help with, it won't get done. The AC went out in her travel trailer. No one she knows, including family, know anything about ACs and got the number of some places to call. She went and bought a portable AC instead of calling to get it repaired.

She will not follow rules and gets angry if you ask. She really wants to be able to do whatever she wants and will have a fit like a child if you try to get her to do anything different.

We are not wanting to have her institutionalized or put in a home. At least, we are hoping to avoid that. We are working on getting her to a doctor. I think she would listen to what a doctor has to say. She will not listen to one of us.

My sister was looking online at mental health problems and found that she fits a lot of the symptoms for Narcissistic Personality Disorder as well as several of the symptoms of Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Interesting.

Dani, I am filled with sorrow for you that you are having to deal with this. We (my family) are right now dealing with my younger brother who has given us a life time of grief. I think he has the narcisstic personality disorder but the bottom line is that nothing can be done about it. He is never responsible for his own actions and we have allowed him to use and abuse all of us. We have enabled him for years and now the price being paid is that he is homeless and destitute. He is now sapping the life out of his daughter (who I helped raise). My heart is broken but there is nothing I can do about it. She will have to wake up years from now and see what he did to her. The family ties are so powerful that you sometimes don't realize how you are being sucked in. I pray that your sister will get your Mom out of her house. The thirteen year old should not have to pay for the sins of the parents. Save this child if you can. Do not allow her to do this with your husband and children. Sometimes you have to say that The Buck Stops Here. We do not live this type of lifestyle and will not allow it in our home. It may be hurtful but your family needs to come first. Been there and done that!

My mom is a hoarder, she's 83, so my situation is different from yours. Your mom is young enough to still be independent.
At this point, my mom lives on her own, and the more I do for her, the more she expects from me.

In addition to the obsessive compulsive disorder that manifests as hoarding, she also has dementia, a very mild form, for the past ten years, she stumbles over everyday words when she thinks she has a statement all thought out.

I took her to a psychiatrist, then a psychologist for treatment of her OCD. They both told me in no uncertain terms, that there is no pill for OCD. Talk therapy did not help her.

What has helped her, and this has been a process over several years to change her thinking:

Not being negative about her choice to live in filth.

Letting her know that it is her choice to live like this, its a choice she makes every day when she gets up in the morning. The choice to change it or not to change it is hers, and the opportunity to make changes is hers. It is her stuff. I will help her whenever she wants to clean out a room, or her fridge (we have the same problems with old food!)

I have received a lot of help from professionals especially lately:
I asked her doctor if she could have a home health aide to help her shower, he set the ball rolling, and got her a visiting nurse who understands hoarding, and OCD behaviors. She also has a Physical Therapist, and an Occupational Therapist. She doesn't really need the OT, she can still dress herself, etc. but she does need the people to come into her home so she can look at it from their perspective. (She hasn't allowed anyone in there for 15 years.)

What has helped me keep my sanity and keep helping her:

Realizing that she is a product of the great depression, and that she needs material things around her so she feels safe from poverty.

Realizing that OCD is a non-logical condition, like a phobia.

Realizing that mood swings, and depression contribute to the intensity of the obsessions and compulsive behaviors.

Realizing that she is emotionally attached to her stuff. Even those 35 year old magazines, and that empty envelope, and those three rooms full of clothes that she will never wear again.

Realizing that she can replace the satisfaction that she gets from that inert stuff, to satisfaction from other things, like accomplishing something, however small; I clear a path to her piano so she can play; I clear off a table so she can go through her boxes, or paint a little wooden craft, or actually eat at a table.

Realizing that her problems are all about control in her mind, and repeatedly telling her that she is in control of her life, that if she can't wrap her head around this "stuff" and regain control over all of it, she will be put in a nursing home and not only lose control of the stuff, she will lose everything, her real estate holdings will be sold to pay for a nursing home. That gets her attention. It is a long process.

How this might help you:

Look up symptoms of depression, obsessive compulsive disorder, and obsessive compulsive personality disorder. See if it fits her actions. Try to look at her actions from a non-emotional state of mind. (Once I started doing that, I stopped being frustrated by her non-logical actions.)

Her needing that TV sounds like she was lost in an obsession, and you couldn't help her because it made no sense that she thought she needed it. Not logical, but typical. The same for the bickering, show that list of symptoms to your nephew, let him learn to recognize those in his own mind, and not be sucked into the bickering, let her think she won, every time. It won't cost him anything, it won't really make her the winner, just in her mind. It will give him the power to control how she affects him. He'll 'have the last laugh' in his own mind, but it isn't funny, and he will have to decompress with his mom about how frustrating it is to deal with her disorders.

When you learn to deal with it as a symptom, not the whole person's being, it's easier to not expect logic.

OMG I typed a lot, I hope this helps...
Liz (used to work for a psychiatrist)

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Liz
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Dogs have masters, cats have staff.

Very informative post Nature Lover! Thanks!

Great stuff Nature Lover. I hope it is helpful.

I'm sorry you are going through this, but am so happy that you and many others have posted ideas about how to handle it. I'd like to add that this is the only life you will be given (as far as I know) so don't let your mom take it away from you, your sister or your nephew. Don't go beyond what is comfortable to do. Your mom cannot take care of you or make you happy. You must do that for yourself. She has raised you right if you are able to do that. What good will it do if your marriage is miserable or your sister's family is disrupted. Take care or yourself or you will have nothing to give to anyone else.

I wanted to add, that it doesn't matter if its alzheimers, dementia or mental illness or a combo or all three--You cannot reason with someone who is this way. There is no negotiating with a mentally ill person, they can only be appeased (manipulated?). I hate to say I agree with Harry Chickpea, but naturelover certainly has some ideas too.

I am sorry you all have to go through this. Something needs to be done NOW. She has already hit your nephew. When will she hurt some one? I AM NOT TRYING TO BE UGLY OR MEAN. I have seen this so many times that I can't count them.
A couple suggestions. If she is able to live alone, why not call one of the assisted living places and talk with them. Them maybe they can arrange it so that you and your Mom can go there to visit someone that lives there. This changed my Aunt and Uncles minds about living like that. Most places do what they have to do just to make a person comfortable.
Again if the kids are afraid of her being there ask yourself WHY are they. Has she done something to them? I see a person that is an explosion waiting to happen. Get her to a doctor now any way you can. You are discribing her as being childish. Then she needs to be treated as such after you sit her down and try to talk to her. Explain to her that whether or not she thinks she doesn't need help she does need help just from her actions. I don't know what else to say and please don't think I am being mean. I wish you all the best in dealing with this. HUUUGGGGGSSSS to you and yours. Sam

I looked up OCD and OCPD. She doesn't fit hardly any of the symptoms. Narcissisism is the only thing I can pull up a list of symtoms and go down and check most. Antisocial personality disorder is another that she fits several of the symptoms.

My kids aren't afraid OF her. They don't like her and dread her visits. She barely acknowleges them when she is here and acts very much like she doesn't like them, or children in general. Mostly it's the way she behaves. Wanting things her way or she gets upset. She will go to bed at 8:00 and expect everyone to be super quiet then get up at 5:00 and wake us up because she slams doors, blasts her radio and is just generally loud. If you say anything to her, she will say she's not wanted or get mad and stomp around. It gets to where you are afraid to say anything that might set her off and walk on eggshells when she visits.

I don't think she would voluntarily go into assisted living. I could be wrong. First things first is getting her to the doctor and go from there.

I feel better knowing we aren't alone, sadly. My sister is reading this also and I think she felt some relief as well and knows we are doing the right thing.

Something else you might want to do. Keep a log of her behavior.

Budsmom, excellent idea. My sister loved your suggestion and is going to start keeping a log. She has also made and appointment for herself at a doc. and therapist.

Sister wanted me to add something, or rather, amend something. I said she acts like she doesn't like her grandchildren. That's true of the grandsons. She has one granddaughter. While she doesn't exactly dote on her, she remembers her birthday and tries to visit for her birthday. She shows more attention to her as well. She has one grandson with a birthday a few days before and one a few days after, but unless she is reminded, she will forget the boys. This is all kind of funny in a sad way when you think that she has three children, all girls, and always wanted a boy. She has 5 grandchildren and her favorite is the girl.