More fun now road & neighbor problems
 

Never a dull moment. I feel like one of those arbiters between a couple of feuding countries, trying to establish a truce.

Background: basically DH and the widowed neighbor up the hill are a LOT alike ... they're always right, they don't like to be corrected and I truly believe they ENJOY a good fight! Both of them can be very difficult.

That said: DH is a "country boy", early years in Wyoming, worked on ranches, career Navy, retired back to country. He knows and likes the way you live in the country. Neighbor really isn't a country person, is one of those people that want to live in the country but wants city convenience.

Problem: Gravelled private road, five people on it. DH has always done the maintenance as he is a retired engineer with road construction experience, has a small tractor/loader and so on. All the neighbors have periodically chipped in equally for a couple of loads of gravel when needed, including DH, though he's also done the gravel spreading, ditching, etc. without compensation.

Neighbor has always been unhappy with the state of the road, is the only person using the road that does not have a 4-wheel drive. Recently we got a load of gravel hauled in fill in some of the spring "holes". Tractor needs repairs, parts backordered, neighbor got impatient and jumped on DH for not getting the gravel spread. DH jumped right back, said if she'd learn how to drive right or get a 4 wheel drive she wouldn't have a problem. She flared into full-battle mode and he said there must be a problem with the phone and hung up.

Yesterday neighbor's son (who is very much like his mother) and an outside contractor are up on the road, just at our gate, with a proposal for major roadwork to be forthcoming. Oops! :lookout:

Plan for me:
1) Read property deed. Says only "subject to easement for road, with access for egress and ingress not limited" ... no mention of upkeep or who shall do it or who pays for it.
2) Talk to the original owner the raw land was purchased from to see if there are "unwritten" laws that may apply.
3) Get copies of the other deeds for the adjoining properties at the courthouse to see if those deeds state anything different.
4) Take copies of all deeds to lawyer and find out what the legal status is with nothing more than is written in the original deed.

I spent years battling with neighbors over covenant restrictions ... but I'm not familiar with Kentucky law ...

Not a lawyer......don't 'play' one in real life either.....
 

With that said, your main concern will be to find out what the other neighbors deeds show
regarding the road. Since yours states that you only have right of egress and/or access,
I'm betting that more than likely theirs do to.
#2 Isn't worth spit......unwritten 'laws' are just that and won't stand up in court or anywhere else that matters.
As long as the majority of the other neighbors having property connected to the roadway
are happy with the way things have been in the past......it's NOT likely your
neighbor or her son are going to be able to change things.

And then again, how well does she/they know the county judge?

Make sure your ducks are in order and then get back to grading the roadway.....
just make sure to leave the extra 'chunks' in front of her driveway!!!:umno:

hee hee hee hee. Hee Hehee heeheee heeee heeeeeeee! Ha! "SHE"......I was so totally unprepared for the neighbor being a she! I'm just laughing at how un-PC I am! Ha ha ha ha ha!

In this lose-lose scenario a truce will never happen.

I have the same problem. A right-of-way 10' wide and 600' long serving 6 properties. 50 years ago when the homes were built and the road installed, there was a gentleman's agreement that material and labor needed to maintain the road would be supplied equally between the owners. Everyone paid their share and worked to get the stone spread.

Now most of the original owners are gone. The new owners were never told, when they bought the properties, that the road maintenance was their responsibility. Like your neighbor up the hill, they expect someone else to do the repairs and keep the road in good shape for them.

The last time we all agreed to road repair was 7 years ago. That only came about because neighbor #5 went ahead and hired a contractor to repair the road without anyone's permission. The day the repair crew and machines showed up demanding $800.00 from each of us was a showdown worthy of the OK Corral. The contractor was told that if he went ahead and repaired the road, neighbor #5 would be solely responsible for the payment. Needless to say, #5 backed down and an angry contractor packed up his crew and machines and left. A few phone calls found another contractor who did the job for $3000.00 less. Everyone agreed to that.

Neighbor #5 lost face and wants nothing to do with the rest of us. The other neighbors now don't trust him. The road needs repair again and no one is willing to take charge and find a contractor, collect costs or supervise the job.

Lose-lose all around.

Basically, the road has always been a point of contention as far as the property owners have been concerned and DH is not blameless for the situation (I'm the only one here that is a professional road person and everybody needs to do what I say).

When I said "unwritten laws" it was a typographical error, sort of ... meant Kentucky law regarding private rural roads but not written into these land deeds that might have relevance to who has to do what with joint private roads.

I don't know how well she knows the county judge, but she's one of those people that can and are willing to make life so miserable for someone that doesn't agree with/ do what she wants people tend to do what she wants so she will leave them alone if they can't avoid her. She is, absolutely, always mad at and harassing someone. Goes the rounds of satellite company, telephone company, insurance company, doctor, water company and then back again.

What has been done before, like I say, is that everyone "agrees" that something has to be done, everyone kicks in an equal share, a load of gravel gets delivered and DH puts it in the worst places. Once, one of the neighbors had two big loads of gravel hauled in and put on their driveway and the road from their driveway down to the pavement ... and paid for all of it.

From my limited knowledge of real estate law (and from another state) the deed looks as if it reads the only thing that is covered is everyone has access and the only thing prohibited is blocking that access. Nothing as far as who does what or pays for what as far as maintenance or upgrading is concerned.

My major concern, and why I want to talk to the lawyer, is to make sure she cannot have the work done (and presumably she would have to pay for it up front or the contractor wouldn't do it) but then go to a lawyer and sue the rest of us for our "share" ... even though we don't need it done and aren't willing to help pay for it.

"Legal Deeded Access" are the words needed. Your plat map should show that. Any road upkeep, if the legal access is across other peoples property is up to the user(s).

When I bought my property, the mtg co. made me get a signed paper by everyone owning land bordering the road stating that I'd have winter (snow access) as my property is the last one on the road. But it didn't say anything aout maintenance or what kind of access. hahaha.

We've had that same problem here and getting worse. When I moved here there were only a few homeowners using the road. One person has a motor grader & we'd pitch in for gravel & costs. Now with more people & a couple summer owners, who won't pitch in, he refuses to do it.

You can get people together and form a legal road association ( I don't know how many owners that would take) then assess everyone for upkeep. An alternative is to get the county to maintain it. Here, in order to get the county to maintain it, the road has to be up to county specs - hahahah. 1.3 miles up to county specs. No one will pay for that.

That's the main bad thing about living on legal deeded access roads. The other is someone putting up a grudge gate - Don't ask about that story!

Good luck.

This is definitely going to be the case here, although it's already kind of like that anyway. I don't think there's anything to lose here in that respect.

Three of the five owners (including DH and the neighbor) are original owners. The road, as it is now, is exactly the same as it was when all three bought their property with the exception of additional gravel hauled in and spread on the road every couple of years.

One is a second owner (absentee) who hasn't been able to get clear title to his property and has never contributed to upkeep. The other two have 4WD (as we do) and don't seem to have a big problem.

Under the circumstances, I think the best thing is to determine that she can not pay the entire amount to have the work done and then sue the rest of us for our "share" of the cost. If that is the case, then notify her in writing that she is within her rights to hire a contractor to upgrade the road to the specifications she feels necessary but since we do not have a problem with egress and ingress we are unwilling to contribute to the costs of the upgrade.

This phrase is definitely not on our deed where the original property was bought, or the additional acres purchased 8 years ago. Just says about access and easement for egress and ingress.

I will be sure and check the plat map at the courthouse and see what that says. The individual small acreages were all bought from the owner of a farm that basically subdivided and sold off individual parcels and the road is the old farm round that went up the hill into the farm land.

The original three purchases were made in roughly the same time period so I suspect those deeds all read the same, nothing mentioned other than access.

In my situation, the road is the southern property line of 3 of the owners. Legal right-of-way is written into their deeds. I have a separate deed giving me a right-of-way since my northern property line is their southern property line.

Legally they can do anything with their portion of the road except block use of it.

Here in NY unless there is a homeowners association or an agreement like that, no one property owner can force us to pay for repairs they made without our written consent.

Not your state obviously, but Alabama has a law that landlocked land cannot be sold. It eliminates some, but not all of the problems. This might be the time to get with your good neighbors and see if the ROW can be deeded to the county as a road. If it can, neighbor can yell at the county. Something tells me they are used to dealing with stuff like that.

This is what I'm hoping for here. Doesn't guarantee she won't be mad enough to try a lawyer/ lawsuit but I do want to know going in what the actual legal grounds will be.

Is the neighbor lady having the problem the last one on the road? If so, the road is her problem. Maybe she's looking to have the road "properly" taken care of and she'll pay the whole expense!!!!!! (YEAH, right.)

There are 3 ways to solve this matter.

1. Things continue as is with each household contributing the same amount to cover costs of gravel.

2. Each household takes care of their part of the road (what part of the road is on their property).

3. Nothing ever gets done. The 4 households will continue running their 4 wheels drives and the "city gal" will get tired of the potholes, mud, and getting stuck and either by a 4 wheel drive vehicle or MOVE.

What used to work in the past, usually doesn't work in the present because people have changed over the years and are more greedy and more "ME" oriented.

It would help if when older folks sold their properties to new folks, the "road rules" were given (everyone chips in). But the people get to thinking (I'm first on the road why should I have to pay as much as the person at the end of the road?" or "I only own 100' of road, why should I have to pay the same as neighbor's 2, 3, 4, & 5 who own 200' of road each. It used to be people wanted help each other. Nowadays (for the most part) everyone is out watching for THEMSELVES.

I wouldn't think she can force you to do anything you don't want to.

Good luck.

I am from Ky. Another option would be to contact your Magistrate about turning the road over to the County. Not knowing which County you're in I can't comment regarding the number of residents per mile needed for the County to accept it, but it's worth a phone call. Your never happy neighbor's anger would then be diverted to your Magistrate, which they'll be quite accustomed to.

That's actually something we've checked on in the past and the road would need significant work/upgrading before it would be accepted by the county as a county road.

She is the last person on the road and the only one that has a "city car" instead of a 4WD.

Also, 3 years ago the 400 feet of road between our driveway and her driveway (which we also use to get up to our upper pasture) was in bad shape ... had a spring actually start up IN the road. DH got a friend of his who does some part time contracting to come in and do some of the heavier work he can't do with his equipment, put in a culvert and ditches plus re-gravel everything. I'm putting all the numbers together but probably ran around $800 total and this neighbor was NOT asked to contribute, did not offer to contribute ... and if I remember right, didn't even thank him for doing it. So there is definitely an established precedent for "if you think it needs to be done, you get it done and you pay for it."

When I approached our county road commissioner about doing this with our road, I was told we needed to put down a 6" base of crushed stone, topped with 3" of macadam, proper ditches, and a 30' X 30' turn around.

When we did all that they would consider taking over maintenance of the road.

Not going to happen in my lifetime.

That hill right before your place alone would make me want a 4wd to live there!
Hope you get this all ironed out ....what an obnoxious neighbor she is.

In my state, with an easement for egress and ingress, all the parties are responsible for their share of the maintenance of the easement based on their percentage of use unless specified in another agreement. In otherwords, if there are three people along the road, one at 100 feet, one at 200 feet and one at 300 feet, then the first pays 1/6 of the cost, the next pays 2/6ths and the last 3/6ths. It is not equally shared.
Then the person who owns the land on which the easement runs, is supposed to maintain so as to allow the use- ie drving in and out. If they don't then, another party on the easement can arrange for maintence and charge the parties who benefit from this. And there would be a suit.
If your's is the same and she's on the end of the road, then the fact that she will owe most of the cost might influence her towards being grateful for what your husband does.
Actually I became familiar with this stuff when a neighbor proposed to block my access. I sent a certified letter that I intended to pursue action- he went to his lawyer, and after that was totally agreeable to my having the access as deeded. I presume that the lawyer explained to him what was what and he was willing to listen to the lawyer. He refused to even discuss it with me. Since then civility has ruled if not friendship. Boy is that man defensive...........
Another thing is that being a woman, howeven noisy, she may be misinterpreting your husband's actions as agressive and so gets her back up. Maybe you would have some more success if you can deal with it. I have no idea if this is true- it's just a thought.

if you haven't i would document all the work that your husband has done..and if it goes to court..hand her a bill in front of the judge for her share of the work he has done..including maintenence of his equipment..and his time..

She and I have managed to remain "friends" for the 10 years I have been here, mostly because I absolutely refuse to argue with her. I have perfected the "bland, noncommittal, nonagressive response" thanks to years first as a police dispatcher and then on the psych ward of a VA hospital. I truly believe she is not happy unless she has a fight going with someone ... and she will fight forever if you don't agree with her. The things she and I do not agree on I simply refuse to discuss with her. She will get snippy and obviously irritated, but since I'm not disagreeing she apparantly doesn't feel she can actually get mad at me.

She is one of those people who are a true representative of the saying "I know what I know, don't confuse me with facts."

She and I are still speaking amiably, but nothing is said about the road. However, DH has gotten to the point where he will not talk to her any more. I've gotten him to agree that if she calls ... or if she, or her son, or the contractor show up ... I'll go out ... he'll play either "sick" or "not here". I'll deal with them, with her I just won't discuss it and with the son or contractor I'll basically just do my "scatty little old lady" routine ...

Anything else can be handled by the attorney ... in writing.