New mom...Getting milk supply back?

Merit · #41 01/24/10, 09:31 PM

You won't have any problems. You never stopped lactating. (You'd written: Now its only formula and the little bit of pumped milk I've been getting. I wasn't sure if I should wait until my milk was back up before putting her back on because I wanted to make sure she was still getting enough.) Congrats on a lovely choice! On the countdown to age four I warned my I-Ain't-Gonna-Quit son that when he turns four he gets to be big enough to chew gum...and quit the bedtime routine short "snack" (!!)

Vernitta · #42 01/24/10, 10:23 PM

I'm sorry I didn't read all of the posts. I just wanted to offer this bit of advice. It was a lifesaver with my two daughters.

Get a nipple shield. It will keep it from hurting too much in the beginning. It will be great if your babies mouth is quite small. And, it might help if your baby is already used to the nipple on the bottle.

ErinP · #43 01/25/10, 08:25 AM

Actually Vernitta, nipple shields are one of those things that cause more problems than they help. Unless they are absolutely necessary, they should be avoided like the plague.
They cause supply issues (not enough nipple stimulation for mom), latch issues for baby...

When truly needed, they can save a nursing relationship. But the routine use of them often means premature weaning...

digApony · #44 01/25/10, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErinP

Actually Vernitta, nipple shields are one of those things that cause more problems than they help. Unless they are absolutely necessary, they should be avoided like the plague.
They cause supply issues (not enough nipple stimulation for mom), latch issues for baby...

When truly needed, they can save a nursing relationship. But the routine use of them often means premature weaning...

I tried the shield with my youngest son. I got so frustrated that I threw it across the room and it hit smack dab in the garbage can. My baby had a very small mouth and as I said before, it is just something you have to figure out on your own. Nipple stimulation is important, that is why I recommended simply tickling the baby's mouth with the nipple. I massaged my upper nipples while my baby nursed. He just couldn't manage to get his mouth around my nipple and nursed the end until he was older.

Vernitta · #45 01/25/10, 07:22 PM

Well, if it wasn't for the shield I wouldn't have been able to nurse my daughters.

ErinP · #46 01/25/10, 07:42 PM

Yep.
Like I said, when truly needed they can save the nursing relationship.

But for the vast majority of people they cause problems more than anything...

ozarkcat · #47 01/25/10, 08:55 PM

Congrats, and yes, it works - my daughter was at 34 weeks and in NICU for 9 days, so we had to go that route. If she has any problems with nursing, though, you may want to talk to a lactation specialist - DD was bottle-fed in NICU when I wasn't there, and we had a TON of problems - if I'd know that was why, I'd have given in & gone to the specialist sooner!

ETA: I'm one in the nipple shield works camp - same thing, because she was bottle-fed because she was in NICU (which is the same as this particular instance). If you've got a perfectly healthy baby that's nursing with no problems (and if it hurts, there are problems!!), then obviously this doesn't apply. The fact that this question is being asked suggests that there are problems, which may mean a different solution than what worked you your (healthy, full-term, etc.) baby. Hence the note about the lactation specialist.

digApony · #48 01/26/10, 08:58 AM

This is in no way meant to target the parents of a baby who spent time in NICU. I am glad that modern medicine can do so much for a baby born with complications. And I am glad that your babies are home and healthy as a result.

However, my beef is with the hospitals and with NICU's. They can do much more to accomodate mothers who want to breastfeed their baby and facilitate that need, even with sucking and breathing problems.

I don't think the problem lies with health care costs, or maybe it does. But there is also the very real problem of health insurance companies practicing medcine. The hospitals also are guilty of dogma, policy, and arrogant administrators and doctors who believe their "standard" medical school methods are the best for the baby.

Sure, there should be period of stabilization, but there should be, as soon as possible, before the baby leaves NICU a transition period where the mother and baby, are provided with all the help mommy needs to nurse the baby.

It's too bad that the baby is sent home and the mother left to figure it out on her own. Mommy has had enough trauma and stress. (take the money and run)

Breast milk and breastfeeding is the best, especially for a baby born with complications! Why can't they get that through their heads???

The more progressive hospitals and neo-natal specialists have moved in this direction and are very successful. Unfortunately in my granddaughter's situation, where she was full-term, able to suck, but dehydrated they told my daughter-in-law: "you cannot breastfeed" giving us a ridiculous and illogical reason! huh?

Anyway, I wish mommy and family the best with their new beautiful baby girl. Give the baby a chance and she'll catch on and latch on..... nurse, nurse, nurse... she'll learn and so will you. Do the best you can.

digApony

ErinP · #49 01/26/10, 09:45 AM

My sis in law had her first baby in Dublin Ireland at Thanksgiving.
Granted, she had a normal L&D, but the home-healthcare nurse swung by several times to check on them and make sure things were going as expected. She helped SIL straighten out a latch issue that she didn't even realize was wrong.

Canning Girl · #50 01/26/10, 10:08 AM

My twin daughters were born at 33 1/2 weeks and stayed in the NICU for 3 weeks. I was encouraged to breastfeed (in fact I insisted on it and forbid them to feed the girls formula), and they provided several rooms with pumps on the NICU floor, so I think it depends on the hospital. My girls were tube-fed breast milk for the first 10 days and then switched to bottle-fed breast milk. I was able to switch them to the breast at about 6 weeks and successfully nursed them for 13 months. What worked for me was a lot of what has been said here already:
1) Drink plenty of water
2) Get as much rest as possible
3) Nurse on demand and pump afterward; I nursed and/or pumped every 2 hours
4) Keep lanolin on your nipples before and after nursing

I am a HUGE proponent of breastfeeding. Not breastfeeding is almost a form of child abuse in my book. (I know I'm a bit overly passionate about it.) You CAN do it. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Everyone (including the pediatrician) told me that it was highly unlikely that I could nurse preemie twins, especially when they didn't take the breast much at all for the first 6 weeks. Being told I can't do something makes me want to prove people wrong, and my determination to do what was best for my girls was the difference. Stick with it--you'll be glad you did.

digApony · #51 01/26/10, 10:57 AM

Yes, it does depend on the hospital and importantly the area in which you live. Where I live, pediatricians encourage breastfeeding, but it seems to be taboo in the outside world and so their advocacy is in vain it seems. I never see mother's nursing. When I had my youngest son, I was the only mother in the hospital that nursed.

I am too, passionate about breastfeeding. I used to feel so sorry for the babies left in the nursery for the most part of their stay. How can a mother allow a nurse to care for her HEALTHY baby in a nursery and not use that special time to bond and nurse? ...not to give their baby the best and most vital nourishment it needs. I had a c-section with both and I had my baby in my arms and at my breast every minute I could. If I wasn't holding them, their daddy was. Ya, it was hard...and even harder when I got home, but I am thankful for every moment.

I can't imagine how a mother, especially with a vaginal birth could be so selfish.

Passionate, yes. Me too.

Joshie · #52 01/26/10, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digApony

This is in no way meant to target the parents of a baby who spent time in NICU. I am glad that modern medicine can do so much for a baby born with complications. And I am glad that your babies are home and healthy as a result.

However, my beef is with the hospitals and with NICU's. They can do much more to accomodate mothers who want to breastfeed their baby and facilitate that need, even with sucking and breathing problems.

It isn't as easy as you might think. I participated in a nursing study while my daughter was in the NICU. Mind you, she was there for 14 weeks. She was vented for nine weeks. I was the only successful nurser in the study. To maintain my milk supply I had to pump at least eight times daily. I could go no longer than six hours between pumping. I had to use a hospital grade pump. You cannot purchase those in stores.

I am a very stubborn person. Most NICU moms are so totally overwhelmed that they are unable to pump that often. I had nursed my son and knew how rewarding nursing is. I also felt powerless and nursing was the only thing I could do for my daughter.

ErinP · #53 01/26/10, 12:09 PM

Even worse, as the OP has discovered, a great many of us simply do not let down for a pump.
I would have been in a real pickle if I'd had to have a child in ICU (or even just gone back to work).

When I was pumping and dumping (with a hospital grade Medela) for about three weeks, my supply dried up to almost nothing. I'd faithfully pump every couple of hours and literally get nothing.
Fortunately, I was able to get DS back to the breast after that, but as everyone else has discovered, it was hard work.

The only way I ever was able to pump was when I was nursing on one side and pumping on the other. Even then, the best I ever did was an ounce.
And I was a LLL Leader. I knew all the tricks!

digApony · #54 01/26/10, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshie

It isn't as easy as you might think. I participated in a nursing study while my daughter was in the NICU. Mind you, she was there for 14 weeks. She was vented for nine weeks. I was the only successful nurser in the study. To maintain my milk supply I had to pump at least eight times daily. I could go no longer than six hours between pumping. I had to use a hospital grade pump. You cannot purchase those in stores.

I am a very stubborn person. Most NICU moms are so totally overwhelmed that they are unable to pump that often. I had nursed my son and knew how rewarding nursing is. I also felt powerless and nursing was the only thing I could do for my daughter.

I am glad you were stubborn and I commend you! I know it is not easy. Even with a healthy new born, breastfeeding takes time when times are busy, commitment and the will to do what you know is best for your child.

I was never able to pump either. It hurt me terribly and I got not even an ounce. I was lucky that I could stay home. My girlfriend could express milk with her hands, without a pump, just like milking a cow...haha!

My opinion still is that modern medicine can do more for breastfeeding moms, both in or out of NICU. Advancements are slow while aggressive in other areas; not to mention the lack of studies and education on the benefits of breast milk and breastfeeding. I never see a commercial or article in the mainstream media regarding breastfeeding. However, we are heavily marketed baby formulas and nipples that simulate breast milk and breastfeeding! haha. The baby formula and baby food industry is not going to give up that easily!

I just wonder sometimes. Every mother here where I work has induced labor, clocked by the doctor, no breastfeeding, and then back to work in 9 or less weeks. Can you imagine how things would advance if more women were as passionate about breastfeeding as you? I guess I was born in the wrong era.

Money, money, money... digApony

Joshie · #55 01/26/10, 01:25 PM

My daughter is almost 12. Our hospital fed her my fortified breast milk. She never had formula. I think that pumping is extremely difficult if you've never breast fed before. Many babies do not have a sucking reflex that's strong enough to get adequate intake before the age of 34 to 38 weeks gestation. Twelve years ago, when my daughter was born, our hospital did not have a scale sensitive enough to measure the intake of a nursing baby. It is important that NICUs know the intake and output of babies under their care. It's a life and death thing, not only for nutrition but because of the dreaded NEC.

ozarkcat · #56 01/26/10, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digApony

I can't imagine how a mother, especially with a vaginal birth could be so selfish.

Right, selfish, because a woman who has been laboring for hours on end and is in probably more pain than she has ever been in her life is "selfish" for allowing someone else to take care of her child while she recovers enough to be able to take care of her child when they are kicked out with little if any follow-up care after a couple days?

That's all I'm going to say about that, because otherwise I'm gonna get pretty dang rude right about now.

digApony · #57 01/27/10, 07:00 AM

I am very sorry if I offended you. But I still stand behind what I said I believe the birthing experience and those precious few moments and days that follow are the most important part of any human's life. If I could have had my children at home, I would have. I labored for hours in what I thought was the worst pain of my life, but then I was wisked scared out of my mind into a surgery room for an emergency c-section. I was cut from navel to pubic bone...no, not cut, ripped, so they could save my baby's life Twice.

The worst pain in my life came when I had contractions with a 12 inch row of staples in my stomach and when I nursed the contractions became worse. Because that is nature's way of pushing the remaining after-birth...only I didn't have any after-birth, but I still had the contractions.

I believe in breastfeeding and I wanted to do what was best for my children. There is much more to breastfeeding than just "good milk"! So I made the sacrafice and put my baby's needs first and I am thankful that I did. I enjoyed every minute and the pain and hard work was secondary.

I got kicked out after the same amount of days as a vaginal birth with no pain relievers, and a big gash in my belly, with no one to help me clean house, wash diapers, and all of those other duties a wife and mother has. All I had was a book on breastfeeding and a generation of strong women before me who simply guided me to learn of what comes natural to a mother and I took it from there. A labor of love.

All mother's have the right to take care of their babies as they choose. Hospitals, accomodate bottle-feeding mothers, or "modern breastfeeding mothers" and disallow the conservative breastfeeding mothers the help and after-care they need as a result. (Conservative meaning a set of breastfeeding beliefs as a whole.)

When I laid there and watched the nurses pamper other women, and when I asked for help I was denied by snotty nurses; "Well you won't let your baby have any sugar water"!! Huh? "My boobs have sugar water!" -- "Could you hold my baby, while I go potty?" "Why don't I just take him to the nursery" "NO!, NO! I'll just pee the bed! Then YOU can change the bed while I hold my baby!" --"After you urinate be sure to rinse your stitches with this water bottle when you're finished" "I had a c-section, I don't have stiches down there!" --"Your baby can't leave the hospital until he has a bowel movement" "He pooped inside me, before he was born! I'm taking anti-biotics...see?" .....I can get pretty darn rude too and will not ask to be excused.

digApony

digApony · #58 01/27/10, 10:31 AM

This is my last post. IMHO it has gotten off subject.

I have had countless women who have either consulted with me or told me about their experiences with breastfeeding and hospital births, including NICU --(my daughter in law --not preterm).

These mothers started out with good intentions and wanted very much to nurse their babies even if they had to return to work.

However, eventhough they knew what they should do, they were not allowed to carry out their wishes. A newly born baby should be put to the mother's breast as soon as it is born. The baby should nurse continually after birth to not only ingest that precious colostrum, but to facilitate milk production in adequate supply for a new born baby.

When a baby is unecessarilly rushed to a nursery and spends most of it's stay in a nursery, the natural breastfeeding process is interrupted. This can doom a new mother's desire to breastfeed her baby. By the time a mother comes home, she has to not only handle the demands of a family, home, farm and importantly spend the needed time to practically relactate. Because of that frustration, I can't count on two hands the number of these mothers who gave up breastfeeding out of frustration and exhaustion.

A mother who nurses continually from the time the baby is born, never has a lactation problem when she gets home; with rare exceptions I'm sure. (I am talking about a birth, including c-section without any complications for baby or mother; which the majority are.) This is not a conservative "idea" it is a fact of breastfeeding.

Also, as Joshie stated regarding breast milk for preterm babies in NICU: "It's a life and death thing, not only for nutrition but because of the dreaded NEC."

NEC:
Necrotizing Enterocolitis
"Although it affects only one in 2,000 to 4,000 births, or between 1% and 5% of neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) admissions, NEC is the most common and serious gastrointestinal disorder among hospitalized preterm infants.

NEC typically occurs within the first 2 weeks of life, usually after milk feeding has begun...

Other factors seem to increase the risk of developing NEC. Some experts believe that the makeup of infant formula...

(Babies who are fed breast milk can also develop NEC, but their risk is lower.) Comment: Why is this IMPORTANT fact put in parentheses?

NEC sometimes seems to occur in "epidemics," affecting several infants in the same nursery. Although this may be due to coincidence, it suggests the possibility that it could in some cases be spread from one baby to another, despite the fact that all nurseries have very strict precautions to prevent the spread of infection. (Comment: ALL nurseries run risks for infection from other babies and nurses, not just NICU.)"

http://kidshealth.org/parent/medical...tive/nec.html#

If NEC is a serious concern for preterm babies in NICU, and breast milk lowers that risk, then why do we not have a breast milk bank?

We have blood banks. What is the difference?

digApony I'm passionate.

ErinP · #59 01/27/10, 11:02 AM

Just as an FYI, we do have breast milk banks. They existed at least 10 years ago (probably longer), because they were already commonly known in the BFing community when my DS was born.

They exist for the very reasons you mentioned.

Google "breast milk bank" and see how many pop up. Most metro areas have one and there are a couple that are national.

Canning Girl · #60 01/27/10, 11:26 AM

Pres/St. Luke's in Denver where I had my girls has a large breast milk bank, which relies on unpaid donors. The milk is tested and pasteurized and used for their NICU babies and is flown to other hospitals around the region. I did read the other day that the milk bank has a very low supply right now because of nursing mothers receiving the H1N1 vaccine, or getting the flu itself, and being unable to donate for 3 months afterward. My girls did get one feeding of donor breastmilk their first day, and I am grateful to those who donate their milk.