What will the working class poor do?

Unless she was/is really good and will be getting a scholarship to play for a universtity. If there was no chance of getting a scholarship then her priority needs to be adjusted. Of course most businesses will work around the student's sports/school activities (at least around here and the company I worked for when I was in HS).

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Lots of good posts here! Everyone has some good points. But I have a question. Everyone is trying to live what they believe is a homesteading lifestyle. Frugality and all. My question is, Frugality concentrates on prices being low and a lot of recycling. Where are they low prices going to keep coming from and if you don't have people "throwing stuff away" so to speak. Where are you going to find the stuff to recycle.
Somebody has to buy that car first so you can get it second or third hand. And its the same with everything else.
On top of that todays homesteading is not a cheap lifestyle. I've been doing it for 40 years (after it was renamed from Family farming) and there are way better ways to live if your working poor and get ahead.

I move in and out of both worlds. Right now I'm putting a new North Face store in in Florida!!. Some one is going to pay 300.00 for a jacket that will eventually be bought by a poor or homesteader for 10 bucks. Homesteading is labor and resource intense. Lets face it, it requires buildings, machinery,kitchen appliances and on and on. If you think that canned food is cheaper or that building better cause you did it for your self, you need to think again. What you get is a better quality of life not plusher.
Man is always going to be creating more great and wonderful stuff. As it should be. But we have gone from building and creating those things to "consumers". Everything about our lifestyle depends on us consuming. and more and more its about puttingstuff out there that is nearly unuasable after a short period and of course cheap.

Starting with my generation that is about all thats really been taught to them. Maybe we just need to slow down. Bring the quality of things up and see how it fits in our lives at the moment. And reach down and help those that want to help themselve up.
But its all going to start with a new mantra and reeducating new generations.

And I'm saying this while setting a motel room with a 30 year old "child" who thought that it was more important to go see the fights and get drunk with the job superintendent than make money on a Saturday. And I might add sticking me here in Florida for one more day.

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I agree.

Most of the people I work with think the same way your brother does. They would croak before they'd walk into a thrift store and they spend LOTS of money and time keeping their yards manicured.
They are starting to complain about gas, now that it's over $3 gal. because alot of them drive SUVs and eat out everyday. A few of them are now talking about trading their big SUVs in for the smaller ones. I guess they don't want to give up the roominess.

It is all in your priorities. We don't spray chemicals in our yard, since we have cattle and I prefer they not be exposed to that, plus I forage for plants and I don't want to poison anything. Lush lawns look nice, but I don't want a manicured lawn at the expense of nature - it's just not worth it.

My own family are country people and not bothered by our way of life. However, I think my husband's family is appalled.

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Vickie

Hermit, I hope your 30-y-o 'child' grows up soon -- he's going to need to.

You make some very valid points, things I have thought for a long time. A few of us do know how to survive pretty much without the trappings of civilization, but most of us are still dependent. Less so than someone who thinks they've got to have every new shiny toy that comes out, and that all their clothes have to be new brand name stuff, etc. But, while we are perhaps bottom-feeders, cleaning up other people's leavings in a sense, when those leavings dry up, there isn't going to be much left for us. This is the way things were for the poor in the past, and probably what's going to happen again. The ultra-rich will still buy new, have toys, etc. The moderately rich will buy new but lesser quality, have less toys. The middle class will scrimp and save, buy used, make do. The poor will buy the leavings of the middle class, mend them, make their own toys. And the very poor, which will be some of us (probably including me and my family) will wear rags, forage through garbage cans, or live in the woods like the Indians (as long as we aren't kicked out). Personally, I prefer living in the woods to foraging through garbage cans; hopefully we'll have a choice. Actually, I'm going to look for work as a goat-herd. (Not joking!)

Kathleen

I was wondering if anyone besides me saw that in my post.

The lifestyle of the true working poor depends on the excess of those above.


And as those things become harder to get, and things tighten up, the lowest folks on the totem pole will begin to vote for more and more "benefits" like National Health Care, etc. etc.

And those who had a pretty good life, with nice lawns, and 40 dollar shirts will be thrust into a life that many aren't able to live... and they will keep paying taxes because they've become the working poor and the previous working poor are the government supported poor... and the tension will grow.

I am glad you brought the discussion back around... because many folks were missing it by saying...

Oh, we'll get by as usual. You may, but you ain't normal. And the change in the system will be what causes the tension... because greater and greater number of people will begin that "entitlement" feeling. I mean why bust your tail if you can get the same things, have more time, and be taken care of.

Or, things could just go on like always I suppose...

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I understand the well off have to cast off their treasures, so a peon like me, can get stuff his sack at the 3$ bag sales... But I've bought so many bags of expensive shirts, I daresay I have three lifetimes worth (and less than zero room in my one tiny closet).

I love North Face. I have several of their winter parkas and rain gear. Paid for some, others were subsidized uniform allowance thru the Park Service. I've bet my life many times on N Face... Right now...I wouldn't/couldn't afford too many of their parkas... or Patagonia's either. Back in the day, if I couldn't get the gear paid for by the NPS, I'd get 50% discounts...

And I'd love to find some NF stuff in a thrift store. Did find some Carrhart pants last year... unfortunately, they're three sizes too big... waiting for a rainy day to cut the seams, slack em up, and resew em...

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

What Homesteaders don't admit or realize they are opportunist at heart NOthing wrong with that. But those 5 gals buckets they recycle were there because someone else paid to have those buckets filled. Or that car to be built. The problem is that as people get poorer taxes will become less and less no matter what you try
What has to change is the moral and ethics part of the equations outside of religion. All though I have written that this country needs to be lead by christian principles despite not being one myself. But thats off topic
My thinking is that we need take time, produce less but better quality,and twice the price. In other words things produced slower may cost twice as much but usually last much longer. Consider the "antiques" and cars before the 70's and the antiques that will be (I don't think there will be usefull antiques). More research,better quality,longer lasting will allow those less well off to obtain usefull items that will last longer. And if they are educated in a ethical and moral then they will take advantage of that and save and work toward a better day.
NOw days you never hear about the savings rate. Nor does putting your money in savings do any good at 2-3%.
Business does exactly what its suppose to do by trying to sell you everything it can as fast as it can for the best price it can regardless of ethics. What has to change is the ethical and moral of all the people involved in the transactions.

When considering the possibilities of what men (and women) are capable of doing there are some hard choices ahead. One only has to look at the difference between Greco/Roman times and up to 1900 and between the 1900's and now. A little over a 100 years. I know in my life I have seen Awesome changes. Changes this fast have never been considered. It may be getting time for a new,and different reality.

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You've made a valid point about the chain of used goods drying up in hard times. That is why most of us are prepping for hard times now by buying extra while the excess is still available. We have enough clothing to get thru many years. Its the same with food, seeds, gardening tools, tools needed for making repairs, kitchen/canning equipment, linens, even furnishings. We are acquiring what we believe we'll need now ... on sale, at auctions, at garage sales and even at full price when absolutely necessary. We also make a point to take very good care of all possessions and make them last as long as possible. This is especially true of our vehicles. We think it is wise use of our $'s to spend them now rather than later when inflation has reduced their value even further.

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This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

Your to be applauded. I try and do the same. What bothers me is me if 10% of 360 million are homestead minded. How does that work out in real life with the rest being completely uneducated,unaware, and well versed in the consumption life style. If there ever was a time for religious organizations to get with it now is the time. And not by teaching fear.

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FREEEEEEEDDDDDDDOOOOOOMMM!!!

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http://tnwoodwright.blogspot.com/

Hm, what about people like me, who take care of their things? For example, the 18 yr old car? I know it won't work forever, but it is for now! Sometimes I worry about when it does bite the dust...To refer to earlier posts (where people pointed out that buying 2nd or 3rd hand is based on someone else buying the item originally and then giving it up when there is still some usage left), in the 50's people used to save up cash for a car, and then keep it virtually forever. It's hard to save that much now, I think. I'll let you know if I suceed! On a different note, does anyone remember the Intentional Peasant of baltimore? He used to write for Countryside, and he was a lucid fan of stockpiling all useful goods. When I read Ann-NW Iowa above, I was reminded of his timely writing. ldc