What will the working class poor do?

The working class 'poor' will always be poor, as long as they fall into the easy feel good traps.

Not graduating high school.
Having children out of wedlock.
Smoking. Drinking. Drugs.

What will they do when life becomes unaffordable? Maybe they'll have to make a choice between heating their homes and their smokes/drinks?

I've been classified as poor all my life, by others. But since I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs, it's amazing how far my paltry income stretches.

One thing about the poor... I think they'll survive the Recession/depression (whatever), or even a shtf, a hundred times better than well off middle class, upper middle class, or rich folks will. Poor folks can't fall too much lower, whereas others have a long ways to fall.... Everyone else (the aforementioned) will find life unpleasant living at the same level as the poor folks.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

Well, I don't know about most of the working poor.. just us. I know we are sinking..hard and fast. DH is a carpenter..20+ years of experience and quality work. Everything from designing to framing to the trim. He comes with his own truck and tools.. no drug habits or all night benders..no long lunches and listens to classical music at work..
This is week 2 of no work.
Soooo.. he is headed for Virginia in the next few days to renovate his sister's house.
And we have talked about him moving semi-permanently to a bigger town..stay in a rooming house etc.. and mail home checks or deposit money in my account to keep the home running.
Even if the town is an hour or so away..that is the only way to make it feasible. The gas to and fro would eat the income.
So... this working class family is breaking apart in order to survive. It is heartbreaking!
But, I can buck up and run the "farm" here and keep the house together and my son alive until we can see Daddy again. I am just glad it is not firewood season.
Families have done this and still do all over the world... so I can too.

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Well there ain't no one poor on HT if they can aford to keep the phone and internet cranking and pay the bill.

When times get tought people will be dropping of the internet like flies, and saying bye bye to the HT Family.

bumpus
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Texican, as you said about yourself, not all the working class poor fail to graduate high school (I went to college, and so did my ex, and so did my mother and step-father, and so on). Not all the working class poor have children out of wedlock, either (though that does seem to be becoming more common). I certainly didn't, nor have my daughters or my sisters. None of us smoke or drink, or do drugs (I once saw an article stating that 95% of the people in my generation had at least tried pot -- I'm in the 5% that has never even done that). I think you are setting the bar too low for the classification 'working class poor'. According to what has been posted on this thread, it includes anyone under $100,000 per year NET income!!! Nobody in my family has ever even come close to that, so we are 'working class poor', yet we have also got decent standards of education and morals. We haven't failed to achieve 'middle-classness' because we didn't finish high school, or had babies out of wedlock, or were substance abusers -- we failed to achieve 'middle-classness' I suspect because we were never really exposed to it and so never thought to strive for it, and never wanted the kind of life-style that it takes to achieve that kind of income. The men in my family have mostly been farmers, loggers, mechanics, heavy-equipment operators, and so on. The few who have owned their own businesses generally lost them because they tried to do the bookkeeping themselves, and didn't have the training or the inclination to do desk jobs. My father was once offered a desk job by the logging company he worked for and he turned it down because he preferred running the equipment. That was where his skills were, and he knew it. If he'd been inclined to desk work, he could probably have risen in the company and made more money, but that wasn't what he liked to do. I think that's the case with most of the people who fall in the category 'working poor'. They are more inclined to work with their hands than with numbers, not because they lack intelligence (average IQ in my family runs close to genius level), but because they LIKE that kind of work!

Kathleen

In some parts of Mexico factories have downsized or closed, but in other parts new plants are being built all over the place.

As long as my (online) surveys and the occasional paid online job keeps paying enough to keep my internet, I'll still be here.

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When the Big company Owner stop at a light driving a big expensive care, and looks over at one of his employees driving a car that cost more than his and he also so has a chauffeur driving that car the Boss says I'm paying him to much.

Then he raises his prices for his products that he sell so he can buy an airplane and be ahead and above his employees.

bumpus

So poor people cannot have the Internet? There isn't anything wrong with poor people having the Internet and having a source for information.

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Get Paid For Online Surveys! http://www.surveysavvy.com/?id=1339554

How exactly do job seekers get contacted by prospective employers-smoke signals?

Most if not all employers want a way to contact their employees for things such as overtime or emergencies.

I agree with the previous post. We have talked about getting rid of the computer, but there are no jobs listed in the papers anymore. There is a publication around here that does list jobs, but it has circulations in other areas that are within driving distance... but he would have to drive to that area to get the publication.. at least this way he can look at them all online.
Also, he can look at the papers in those areas and check Craigs List etc...
Without the computer he would have no chance these days.

Kathleen
maybe I should have said what I said better...

The things I mentioned, if done, make it harder to escape poverty. If one doesn't do those things, the person has a better chance to succeed. Now a person can choose to advance in life or not. I chose the slower path... knowing full well that path had maybe a tenth of the income I would have had with the advanced path.

An unwed mother, without a hs degree, will have a much harder time in this world, than a woman unhindered, with a hs degree.

In todays world, a college degree is about the equivalent of a hs degree thirty or forty years ago. I got some books from the library's donation sale last month... a box of 40's era history books... they were for 9th grade... they were on par with my college texts...

Maybe two years out of the last ten, have I made as much the poverty level (as set by the govt.). Those years, I thought I was a King... I can't imagine making six figures a year....

We all make choices... sometimes we make the right ones, sometimes the wrong ones... And even when we make all the right choices, fate can squish us like a bug, and knock us down. Making all the wrong choices at every turn insures bad outcomes.

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Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. Seneca
Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival. W. Edwards Deming

What's going to adjust the balance of things is when production costs begin to rise in place like china, and when transportation costs start to increase - both of which we're beginning to see. The advantages which countries like China and India have start to gradually be eroded. We're going to see US manufacturers and producers gradually getting more advantages from their overseas competitors. When fuel costs go up they go up for everyone. We're going to see a bigger shift to locally produced goods. Trouble is that it's going to take a while to see the shift - not sure where we'll be in the meantime.

The working poor will survive just as they always have. They adapt to what ever comes their way and makes do with what they have or don't have. Don't worry about them, they are the survivors.

Worry about the people that were born with the silver spoons...they are the ones that won't know how to cope with losing their 'stuff' as well as money when the stockmarket crashes and they lose their McMansions.

Median household income is about $46k in the U.S.

By using a little Kentucky Windage, I'd say folks in the 55k range could safely call themselves middle class. Folks around 110K would be upper middle class.

By my cipherin', anyway.

By my reckoning, too.

Even though I read something the other day that said a family of 4 with less than $70,000 a year income is considered to be POOR. I know plenty of families with 1/3 of that much income and they're getting by.

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I agree with the entire post, and these points are very true.

I am really bothered by the expectation of our young adults, as well as many kids.

We have some neighbor kids. One is 17. He was moaning one day about being broke, and couldn't get a job because his car was broken. I asked how much he needed to get the car fixed, and to have some jingle in his pockets. He replied that he needed $220, which would repair the car, buy some gas, repay a $40 loan, have a small date for $20, and have some money left over.

I explained that $220 could be obtained easily, and by the end of the week on Saturday. He was all ears.

I went on to explain that $220 could be earned by knocking on doors, asking for mowing and lawn work. $220 is just 11 lawns at $20 each, or 22 hours of work at $10 an hour.

He thought it was funny, and replied "Man, I am not knocking on no doors! I don't like to mow anyway."

His 12 year old brother is always asking to earn some money. It is always $40 or $50, but wants to earn it in a few hours.

A cousin of mine, also from 'deserved' type parents wanted to mow my lawn. He gave me a price for $35!!!!!!! A 12 year old is worth $35 for mowing a lawn with my mower, and it only takes 20 minutes to mow?!?!?!?

His 48 year old dad tried to explain..."yes...my kids want better things in life. He wants a XBox game that costs $55."

I still can't believe his dad said that with a straight face.

I see this again and again in kids...they want only easy, high paying work that can give them instant gratification.

While I know lots of young adults, teens and kids that are great workers, and appreciate earning $10 here and $5 there, I am stunned and amazed by the expectations of others (and their parents).

Clove

A lot of working poor are kept down by circumstances beyond their control. A divorced mom whose ex does not pay child support and whose income barely covers child care. A woman whose ex had a midlife crisis and left her...a woman who had always be a homemaker and stay at home mother. Even is she has a good education entering the workforce so late is never going to have a decent income. A hardworking man who is suddenly disabled. An individual who has worked the same job for 10-20-30 years and the plant closes. A divorced father who does pay child support which doesn't leave him enough to live on.

An instant way to poverty is a divorce or to have a major illness or accident even if they're covered by insurance. Not able to work, co-pays, having to go on COBRA, and the spiral downward doesn't take long.

And the working poor are victimized by lenders. Loan companies, payday loan places, credit cards who prey on their desperate straights. No legitimate lender would loan these people a dime because they have no way to repay. They are cheated by landlords who know they have them over a barrel. They are fired by employers when they get collection calls at work. They are refused medical care because they have no insurance. I know more than a few women who want to work but are on welfare simply because that is the only way they can get medical care for their children. If they take even a low paying job they get cutoff.

There are plenty of people whose poverty is self-inflicted by greed, but there are many more who are just victims of unfortunate circumstances.

Then there are the stupid. I know so many poor young couples with babies and I try to counsel them on ways to save money. I ask do you have a washer and dryer and if they say yes I urge them to use cloth diapers and wash cloths instead of disposable diapers and wipes. A simple thing that can save $40 a month per child. And you know what, even tho they can't afford to buy proper food, they will not consider using cloth diapers. I urge them to make their own baby food instead of buying those tiny expensive jars of Gerbers. They won't. I suggest learning to cook...they won't. So I guess they'll just have to go suffer because if they won't lift a finger to help themselves I won't help them.

I think life in going to get very interesting in the next couple of years. The working poor will probably manage better than middle class young people who think life will always be as it was when they were growing up, the ones with an entitlement attitude who are not willing to learn to cook or wash diapers. (I see refusal to wash diapers as refusing to dirty their hands with real life. Which doesn't sit well with me maybe because I washed my ds's diapers by hand. I didn't have a washer or dryer and couldn't afford the laundrymat.)

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This is the day which the Lord hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

Or the 17 year old I know that quit her job because it interfered with her volleyball!! Why would anyone allow their kid to think that playing volleyball is more important than holding a job?? My 9 year old has been making & selling potholders to earn some extra money. She can also bake a cake from scratch & lots of other necessary things. My kids do not have 1 video game, IPOD, cell phone, & gosh, they have to share a room with their siblings! They all have chores & better darn well do them. I have no problem telling them that we do not have the money for certain things. It seems parents don't want to disappoint their kids by telling them no, so they will go in debt more to give in to the whims of their kids. I have several family members that I would love to strangle. They are teaching their kids nothing about working for what you need & want. I guess they think it magically appears out of thin air!

So, in answer to the question, I think the working poor will do OK. It's the NON-working middle class living on credit that will have a hard time. (By non-working I mean lazy that think they need a fortune for one small job kind of people.)

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I can't believe I deleted it!

Speaking of Marie's cake:

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_334.html

I totally agree with this.

And if the poverty level is set at a more reasonable $55,000 a year, most of my family has still never made that much. One of my brothers may be coming close -- he's working on the North Slope (mechanic). I've always figured the poverty level was somewhere around $20,000 a year -- anyone ought to be able to manage reasonably well on that, unless they live someplace like New York City, where housing is obscenely expensive.

Right now, I fall into the category of divorced women without enough education to get a decent-paying job (some college, but no degree), and with a mentally handicapped child to look after. I suppose we might qualify for welfare, but I haven't looked into it, since we are managing with what we have (and DD's SSI almost qualifies as welfare, in my book). We'll manage somehow, no matter how bad things get, because we know how. But I suspect that even those of us who do know how to manage are going to suffer a whole lot before it's all over and done with.

Kathleen

Some random thoughts on these posts....

My brother makes $100,000 a year. he has an extremely tough time seeing the frivolity in his life. He lives in the suburbs and has been complaining about rabbits "doing their business" on his lawn. Then he talked about all the money he spends on his lawn--in ground sprinkler, fertilizers, lawn service....I asked him why it was so important that he'd spend all that money on something he couldn't eat, and didn't want to walk on....and he said "because all my neighbors do."

This weekend he was up in our neck of the woods and he wanted to go shopping. Since we buy almost everything at the thrift store, I told him he should try that first. He didn't want to be seen going into a place like that. He wound up spending $30 on one shirt. Now to me, that's enough money to outfit our entire family in name-brand clothes! He was showing the shirt to DH (bless his heart), who pointed out the almost-new jeans he was wearing and said, "I'm wearing the $3.99 ones today, the ones we got from the thrift store last week." My brother's eyes got really wide, he had no idea that you could actually buy nice things there....apparently he thought everything was all torn up or something....I don't know....

Anyhow, I think, as Texican says, it won't be the closer-to-poor people like us that are going to hurt the most from the upcoming economic mess, it's people like my brother, they have much farther to fall than we do....

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And how am I to face the odds
Of man's bedevilment and God's?
I, a stranger and afraid
In a world I never made.
--A. E. Housman