It happened before and now the same thing happened for the same reasons

Wendy, in the future if you are going to quote me would you please not just take the part you are in disagreemnt with and post it as if it is a complete statement.

Hugs,
Marlene

__________________
It is the one with persistence and determination that brings great ideas into being.

uh....

There are other people out there who have really tough lives, are picked on, loners, dealt a bad deal, poor, made fun of...

...and they don't lose it and kill 32 people and shoot up another 14 or so. They carry on.

The gunman was a sick, sick, kid.

I would hope all of us raise our kids to respect others.

BUT, I'm also teaching my kids to watch out for others - and identify odd behaviors and actions so they can hopefully be aware of potential dangers. Situational awareness...

I agree that we should be kind, and teach our children to be kind.

That said, however, we should also teach them the limits of kindness. WR's post shows what can happen if someone who has poor social skills and may be a bubble off plumb misinterprets kindness. Too many women and men stay in dangerous, unhealthy relationships because they don't want to hurt someone else. They stay with abusive people because "he had a sad childhood" or "She'll hurt himself if I break up with her."

The person who massacred those students was mentally ill. There is a cultural issue at play here as well: People from other cultures frequently downplay mental illness, or do their best to hide it, because they believe it brings shame on them and their family. This young man obviously displayed signs of mental illness for a long time, yet got no help or support for it.

The whole thing is cosmically tragic. We will never really know why this happened; all we can do is conjecture.

I am praying for the families of the dead -- including the family of the murderer.

Pony!

All this about everyone being nice to the outsider is well and good, however, I think it falls more on the parents to know their child and raise them properly. People do make fun of people happens all the time but if a child is loved and raised as being valued that child can handle pressure. I think it is more important for parents to teach their child how the handle ridicule and judgements from others than to teach them to just "be nice" to everyone. Also, I think it is important for parents to KNOW their child and if they have a kid that isn't right in the head not to ignore it. I mean which is worse to admit your kid has mental issues or watch your kid kill a bunch of people and himself?

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"Mama always says stupid is as stupid does" Forrest Gump

"It is discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit." Noel Coward's Blithe Spirits

If you read the shooter's writing, it sounds as if he'd been sexually abused. The shooter learned predatory behavior somewhere and my guess is, the shooting had nothing to do with the students or the teachers, but with someone in the shooter's life who had preyed on him repeatedly. Yes, pure speculation at this point but I won't be surprised if that turns out to be the case.

Well in some ways I see where your coming from bumpus.I use to have problems with anger,went for help.What helped more was I was told instead of holding things in,say what I have to at the time.

After awhile I got to where what people had to say didn't bother me.I know my Heart and do the best I can and call it good.

What bothers me this Guy planned this for over two weeks.Plus I've seen mass killers before,but this Guy they showed pictures of him and I couldn't look.He wasn't a bad looking Kid,but I look into those eyes.I see hate and a very troubled mind.I was truly repulsed by the sight of him.And I didn't know the Guy.

big rockpile

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I love being married.Its so great to find that one person you want to annoy for the rest of your life.



If I need a Shelter
If I need a Friend
I go to the Rock!

Wow. I just don't know how to even begin to reply to this message. (Jaw hit floor and is still there.)

I'm in agreement with CF on this. He said it best.

(Yikes!!!!)

Pat

Bumpus…I agree with you 100%…except for the part about ending the dispute in fighting(but that’s a girl/boy thing)

My heart aches for the victims, the victim’s family, the shooter and the shooter’s family…

Please forgive me if my following words hurt or offend any who read them….

When, as a nation, are we going to realize that within the security of our own small communities we are allowing young innocent children to go up to become terrorists. We are fighting terrorists in foreign countries( in a faux declared war) and are not recognizing that the same mind-set is becoming an epidemic in our you backyard…

If it is due to violent games…then ban them..
If it is due to violent lyrics in music…then ban them…
If it is due to violent TV shows...then ban them…

What does any ordinary 23 year old person need an automatic assault weapon for?…I believe in the right to bear arms.. but should that include assault weapons?

I would rather loose a little of my personal second or fifth amendments…then loose my nephew to a raged gunman…

We teach our youth how to have safe sex…it’s about time we teach our youth how to handle anger….how to cope with disappointment….how to cope with hateful words and actions directed at ourselves…how our actions and words effect another human being….

We must teach our youth that respect for, first yourself, and second, to others, is critical to survive in today’s world….

Instead of the American dream being a successful McMansion owner and having a hummer in each garage and an indoor pool…make the American dream be…. to raise well adjusted, self-esteemed, compassionate , caring kids…

Instead of rushing the child to ballet or soccer practice…sit and talk, but mostly listen to what the child is saying…and always ask questions….

Instead of wasting money on football, baseball or soccer in schools…hire professionals to help identify and to try to help save the child from destructive behavior..

Kathy in MD, that was beautifully written and I agree with it 100%.

I'm not so sure that the deviant mind is always caused by something external, I'm quite sure that Jack the Ripper had no video games, violent music or shocking images on TV. I understand that Ted Bundy was analyzed to the time of his death and I'm quite sure that if he felt his being bullied as a child would have spared him the death penalty, he would have spoken up. As far as I know, there was never any conclusive evidence as to why he did what he did as there is nothing conclusive as to why Charles Manson convinced others to kill for him, why Jeffrey Dahmer chose to kill and eat human flesh and Timothy McVeigh blew up a building. Perhaps deviant behavior is the result of bad genetic combinations rather than the world spiraling out of control. Children have taunted and teased each other throughout time and not all teased children kill others, there is something that creates the killer response - in my opinon.

I feel this poor man was a bad seed, driving others away from him with his scariness. Seems like many tried to reach out to him but he rebuffed all. In many ways different from the Columbine pair(?). Maybe this incident will make us add to the basic queries of troubled folk- 'do you have any thoughts of killing your self or anyone else?' this one "do you think about punishing the people who have done you wrong?" or some such version to flush out the mass murderers.

I also feel though this man would be warped no matter what that we need to change the way men view women. Women are not just there to be dated or to refuse you. They are humans and you should be as delighted and surprised (as a man) if a woman you like is willing to date you as you would be were you homosexual and a man you had not known was homosexual were willing to date you. But don't let me discussing homosexuals distract you- I mean most men view all women as nonattractive, attractive and I might ask her out sometime (but currently busy with someone else etc), or attractive but some version of 'she won't have me' from (worshipfully) 'she's out of my league' to 'that awful (nasty word for female of your choice) won't give me the time of day' often followed by 'I'll show her'. Kurt Vonnegut's short story Temptation in Welcome to the Monkey House is what I used to illustrate this problem to my teen daughter. Along with my experiences: I'm the casual type and had many friends in college. Once when I dyed my hair black it somehow made me newly gorgeous enough that a friend- perhaps drunk- denounced me in public as a tease who would never go out with him. Of course he had never even asked me but that's a side point....

Anyway women go through life living it; at times being attracted to men they interact with, men go through their life as if all women are there for them to decide if they want to date them or not.... am I making any sense?

Not really and it is sad that you feel all men are the same way as the ones that you have come in contact with.

Not all men are like you portray them.


bumpus
.

I don't think we will ever know exactly what it was, that set this fellow off.
He certainly had "Mental problems". He definitely had "Inferiority Problems".

Perhaps a part of the Things that set him off were the "Cultural Differences",
in the Asian mind-set as oppose to the prevailing sexual Attitudes & Mor`es in the US. His attitude toward Women and how they should be approached & treated seems to have been a part of his problem.

There are, without a doubt differing Economic Levels & Strata, not only in the US, but everywhere else, in the World.
But to attempt to use that fact as a "Justification" for the Killing and Maiming, this Sick-Individual, did is a little sick too.

We all had to grow up. We all, at one time or another, had to deal with
name-calling, being put-down, being picked-on, and such. It's part of
growing-up.
Now, the vast majority take it in Stride, and grow from it. The vast majority
get over it, and take our turns at engaging in it too.

But, it is the "sick ones" who snap, the Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris or Cho
Seung-hui, who, even in this Country of Priveledge, blame the People around them, for their own inadequacies.

Yeah, it'd be nice to live in a perfect World. It's not going to happen soon.
There will without a doubt continue to be Sickos who go nuts & Kill Folks.
But Hey, don't Blame the Victims. They did not even know the guy.
Think about it.

__________________
Be Intense, always. But always take the time to
Smell the Roses, give a Hug, Really Listen, or
Jump to Defend your Friends & What you Believe in.
'Til later, Have Fun,
Old John

.
The same thing could happen anytime anywhere in .......

Wakmart
Church
Any School
Post office
The U.S.A. Capotial
The Whitehouse
Cout rooms
Laundrymats
Subways
Big Concerts
Etc. Etc. Etc.


It can happen and no one can stop it.
It happen every day in war torn countries.

Even the U.S.A.


bumpus
.

Blaming the victims reminds me of an old commercial 'Lock your car. Don't let a good boy go bad". A good boy would never know whether the car was locked or not because he would never bother someone else's possessions.

It was said that this young man when he was a little boy was a good little boy, until he came to the U.S.A.

I guess he could not handle the people who had an I'm better than you attitude and over a long period of time he got tired of dealing with it, and know you have the rest of the persons life being told, to an unbelieving public.


bumpus
.

His grandfather said he was a good little boy before coming here but that he caused his parents much trouble because of a speech problem he had. His grandfather said his parents had a hard time understanding him. They said his family came here when he was, I believe, 8, because his parents wanted their children to get a better education. His family in South Korea also said that once they moved to America they did not hear from them much again.

Perhaps his mental illness wasn't showing before the age of 8, or perhaps his family had no understanding of mental illness when he was that young.

Where did you hear that he had been teased and ridiculed? I haven't heard any of that. I did hear that his dorm mates had tried to draw him in and be friends with him but he would hardly even talk to them. I have also heard others, like one of his professors, say that he was the one doing the bullying, not being bullied. She was afraid of him and demanded he was removed from her class.

Also, did you hear that he was from a poor family? I have not heard that but then again I have only been watching CNN and such at night so I could be missing things. I have heard that his parents owned a laundrymat and that his sister is a graduate from Princeton but that is all I have heard about his family.

I watched a show on Colombine the other night on tv. It said that those who did it were not part of any black coat gang or whatever was first reported and that they weren't outcasts who were bullied and teased. I don't know how true this is, only stating what they said was found out after years of looking into Colombine.

Bullying and teasing is a sad thing and we do need to teach our children better. No doubt about that! But we can't always lay a persons mental illness at the feet of society.

Debi

I haven't picked up on all the news about this individual case but i would like to ask - why is it always assumed that bullying goes down the social scale. If he was being bullied/ostracised then he must have been from a lower class and that is why it ws happening?

I was bullied interminably at school - why ? 1) Because I was bright. 2)Because my Dad employed the fathers of most of the other kids I was at school with. We were brought up to not have a problem with it, could have anyone we wanted over to play etc, etc. We never ever got invited into the home of any of my school fellows, never got invited to the birthday parties, and was bullied like mad at school. Just because of that social gap. But it was coming UP the ladder, not down it.

Please don't assume that it is only middle class kids that bully lower class kids.

just tuppence worth

hoggie

I dont know if this has anything to do with the post or not, But I was bullied as a kid for being overwieght. I think I have turned out okay I know for sure Iam not going to go get a gun and start shooting no It would be me to try to talk the gun out of someones hand. Like I say I truned out to be a loving and caring person in my old age not that I was ever not loving and caring. No what happened to that young man was much more deeper than being bullied I would Imagine,paula

__________________
'It Is A Wise Father Who Knows His Own Child'
Shakespeare
A WOMAN MUST NOT RELY ON A MAN TO PROTECT HER, SHE MUST LEARN TO PROTECT HERSELF.
SUSAN B. ANTHONY

I know the network is in business to "sell the news" but I am disturbed with the release of the videos and pictures......especially as an educator and his the shooters direct statement about the "martyrs" of Columbine. The timing and release of the NBC information has me concerned for copycat behavior.......could it have been "held" until after the 20th and released then?
But again, if there are people out there determined to make a statement and kill, it truly won't matter what day they choose to do it on!!!!