Any familiar with labor laws?
 

It's been tough the last few days here. More mental than financial, although I havn't realized the full extent of the financial portion yet.


Some of you know I headed out to the Dakota oil patch, mid Oct. I had hired a feller who I knew was fully capable, although lazy, to finish out the season with my stackwagon. When I made the deal with him, I told him what I was paying (very well) and told him I wanted the work done and my wagon taken care of. He assured me it would be? I fully maintenanced it before I left, just for peace of mind and to know it was good to go.


When I was back in Nov I ran it for four days to get the list caught up again. I noticed a few things at that time that weren't being handled right. Like a loose end on a hydraulic hose that had covered the side of the truck in oil. THat was a simple matter to tighten, which I did. A coolant hose had started a drip that I wasn't able to find the source of, which I told him to get it taken care of, and he said he'd get it done. Also had five tubes of grease left in the toolbox that it had left home with. So I told him to service it every day it was used, and he said he would.


To make a long story short, nothing was tken care of. I had paid him before I realized the mess he had created, fortunately I found out before the check had cleared my bank, and put a stop payment on it. I spent two days on it to make it roadable, and then found out the rear end was shelled.


I had been called and given a heads up mid Dec by the guy replacing a seal on the driveline, which had a part in leaving the job I had up there. I had a hard time believing the info he had given me though. The hiree had also used it to do work of their own (family) and not made a ticket in my book while I paid him a wage and furnished the stacker. Charged fuel and oil to me for their use. He's lied to me about the problems created as well.

He found out yesterday that I had stopped payment, and finally returned a call. I told him I wanted to see him face to face before he was paid. He made an arrangement for today, but sent me a text that he couldn't, but possibly tomorrow.


I won't listen to his lies or excuses, I will offer him minimum wage minus the fuel/oil charges, and regular rates on his family deal using my stacker. That's not what I want to do, and it might not be what is done, depending on his response. Yet, I figure I owe the guy something, even though it will cost me several thousand in repair for my stupidness in hiring a DA.


Are any of you fluent enough in law to know if I have a foot to stand on? I'm trying to use common sense in handling this situation. There are exceptions, but usually laws are common sense. I know it's not the best place to pose a question like this, I just don't take time to visit anywhere else. And I've got a big dislike for attorneys I've had dealings with.

Was there a written agreement or anything such as emails or texts traded back and forth that stipulated what work was to be done and both of your obligations in this arrangement?

Contracts do not have to be written...but it sure as heck helps.

Just a verbal agreement. Taking care of equipment is supposed to be done, regardless.Any lie, or lieing about something even when truth would be better spoken, speaks of the person. I hate liars and thieves with a passion!

What is a stackwagon?

ok well..if you were paying him straight cash as in a 1099 or contractual agreement...whether verbal or not...and you are NOT paying him via W2....I do believe the laws you look under are contract law and not necessarily labor law.

Contract law...extremely simply (I am not a lawyer nor do I play one online or on television)...says that a contract is an agreement between two parties...so...basically he violated the agreement.

Go ahead and explain all the stuff that is wrong that he was supposed to take care of via the original agreement and then have him settle for less than you originally said because he didn't hold up his end.

Either way... he could still try to sue you...but I would stick to your guns...and keep all your reciepts.

I had something similar happen a few years ago between me and a construction contractor...he didn't live up to his end. Although he actually sued me because he has way more money than I do...but in the end he ended up losing more than he ever gained from the lawsuit. So I was happy lol.

If he agrees to the lesser payment due to his negligence...make sure when you cut the check you put something in the memo line that will amount to say it is payment IN FULL...or else he can argue it was a partial payment on the original agreement....you probably know that...but I just thought to include it

A stackwagon is used in picking hay up out of the field and putting it into a stack. This type is for handling the large square bales or rounds.

Whynot is right. Any verbal commitment is a contract, but unless you have a witness to verify those facts, I reckon one could say the one person's word is as good as another. What you do have though are a good description of the equipment as you left it, and now the facts surrounding your repair and the maintenance not performed, plus the fellow who worked on the seal and gave you information about the hired hand's behaviors, and the cost of his use of your equipment for his personal gain. I figure you won't have anything to worry about even if he wants to push the issues. Be careful though, if he was working for cash only, make sure you got your ducks in a row with IRS tax issues as he may want to cause trouble...if he's smart enough to go that route. Main thing just get a good look at him up close and make sure he's not limping around, got all his fingers and toes so he can't put in a medical claim on you. Lots of what if's for sure, but the other main thing is don't take no carp, treat him what you think is fair, and stand your ground. If it looks like a storm is brewing, get some documentation of the facts down on paper.

And have a witness or a video

I"m assuming this was a cash deal. Did he complete the jobs you had set up? You owe him for that work. How much more than normal wear and tear was done to your equipment? That amount should be subtracted and the balance due paid to him if there is any. If he used your equipment for side deals, that's probably nothing you can recover without a lot more headaches because it appears that wasn't discussed in your original "contract". I'm not a lawyer; I'm just thinking this is fair to both of you.

I'm not disagreeing that he's owed something for the work, Katy. The repair that he has costed me, through his lack of attention/laziness is several times over what the origional agreement called for paying him.

There's no such thing as side deals for family or anyone else, unless I'm consulted first. It's all one and the same. And I dang sure wouldn't offer it to anyone that is fueling pickups or charging oil to me!

littlejoe, if he gives you any more grief I would hint that you decided to be generous and pay him instead of taking him to small claims court for the cost of damage he caused.

Then you have your answer. What would you have earned on the jobs he was supposed to do for you? (Subtract fuel, his labor and normal wear and tear on equipment.) What did it cost you for him to use your equipment? (Equipment damage and fuel.) If subtracting the latter from the former means you owe him money, pay him. If not, let him come after you for his "promised compensation" which I doubt he will. Sad but it sounds like a costly lesson.

I'd pay him and be done with it. It's usually easier to just eat losses

I'd much rather eat coffee ice cream.

The damage to the vehicle your going to end up eating as bad and unfair as that is, I tried to take a driver to court once for damage he did to the truck and my lawyer said the court would side with the other guy due to my not doing due diligence in the hiring (I did do a background check before hiring).

But the unauthorized charges and use of the vehicle can be deducted from wages.

in reply to Katys post...

It's costing me several thousand over and above, WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN NORMAL!

I'm going to offer a minimum wage, minus what was taken from me. If he had to pay for his neglect, he would owe me several thousand! I'm not charging him for that!

I'm trying to get ideas on what others consider as being fair. If I had my wants, I'd unsrew his head and drop a gift in his chest cavity!I've gotta pay for some of my gullibility in hiring and putting faith into such a fine piece of work, however.

I think your offer of minimum wage with a reduction is fair.. He "made" money using your equipment for his friends and family; if he wasn't paid, someone got the benefit. He didn't take care of your equipment.. I'm sorry this went so badly for you.

@Littlejoe ~ As a prior employer, there are a certain series of "tests" that must be passed to identify the individual as either a contractor or an employee, and simply saying you'll give them a 1099 won't cut it. I don't want to be harsh here. I know you're in a rough spot. I've been there... but simply to say, first and foremost, look up what makes an employee vs what doesn't. Heck, I'll dig for it myself momentarily. Second though, even if he was a contractor, was the contract spelled out? Did you pay him X dollars for X hours at any point? If so, he's going to say this was precedent, and that he wasn't a mechanic, and while he tried to take care of your equipment there was only so much he could do, etc etc... again, not meant to be harsh, but this is what he ~could~ say.

Nobody, unfortunately, will treat your vehicles or equipment with the same care as you would (or even half that well in some cases) ~ and it's a sorry state of affairs. I remember buying $850 worth of new brakes on my E-350's, only to watch some sorry bastiche drive it back to the shop, plumes of smoke billowing from the brand new brakes because they still were too careless to release the emergency brakes.

I remember finding whole bags of insulation on site after my guys had left; valued at $30-$40 a bag... and I'd find several of them. I'd find whole boxes of staples, masks ($25 a box), toolbelts... they simply didn't care. And I actually had a good rapport with my guys!

Even with my salespersons, where I clearly spelled out what was expected and had both them and myself sign and date in front of a notary, there were still issues on the delineation of responsibilities, still demands for money not owed. They're always willing to smile and shake your hand in the beginning, but it's later on when they come back whining and moaning, even with full knowledge they didn't perform as they should have.

Thanks for your input folks. Basically I don't think this guy was worth minimum wage. In fact I wouldn't give him a job unless I was paid substantially. I'm still gonna try to get along even if I don't like it, and chalk it up to a continuing education program.

@Littlejoe ~ I've got 101 questions about the oil trade, and will be making a trip up to Williston in the next few weeks to try to get things moving. I'd love to ask you some questions if you had a moment... (?)

@Littlejoe ~ I've got 101 questions about the oil trade, and will be making a trip up to Williston in the next few weeks to try to get things moving. I'd love to ask you some questions if you had a moment... (?)

@Littlejoe ~ I've got 101 questions about the oil trade, and will be making a trip up to Williston in the next few weeks to try to get things moving. I'd love to ask you some questions if you had a moment... (?)

Ask away, Warwalk. Either here or Pm. My time there was limited, and so is my knowledge.

Hey LittleJoe,

WarWalk has some questions.....hehe

Lj like others said u can't recoupe for damages on truck but u already know that. If somebody owes me money n they are gonna pay at certain time I show up! Hes already scared cause he blew off meeting n then just sent text. So he knows u got pretty good idea your on to him. Depending on how much the origanal amount minus gas n oil. If its not gonna hurt u financially pay it. It's not worth the headache. I only say that from my experiences. Principal of it is another thing it's not fair n sucks that's why I don't really use employees.

I don't know how my thread did that. I tried to delete a few of them. *ugh!

Don't delete now,,,,or,,,My post will look stupid:pound:

Got stood up this morn for a meeting with my man, figured it would never happen? About 2 he called and asked if he could meet me. I told him to get his happy butt out here!

When he arrived I told him my greiviances. He started with some excuses, and basically I told him his actions spoke volumes. He said he didn't want me mad at him? Gave him my offer, and he said it was good? Said he'd totally forgot about the fuel/oil and using the wagon? It was 10% of what he would have made if things were on the up and up.

Wasn't in any way what I had expected??? Now I'm scratching my head in bewilderment?

He must be surprised that you aren't suing him for damages to your equipment.
You made him an offer he couldn't afford to refuse.

If you paid him more than $600 you have to give him a 1099.
Do that and you can write off the repairs to your business vehicle.
I hope the tax break covers the damages and wear & tear.

How did he blow out the rear end?

I got his SSN today, so he will receive a 1099. All repairs are deductible anyway. Can't sue him, since I hired him to operate it.

He trashed the rear end through lack of attention and normal maintenance. Equipment requires daily maintenance, and he knew this very well, as well as knew it was expected from him. If he had been doing it, he would have noticed either the twine wrapped around the driveline and into the seal, or the oil being slung on the bed and tires. Not using it till it started vibrating...it didn't happen overnight. As did several other things!

Just make sure its in writing that he is paid in full and get him to sign off on it. If you put it in the memo line clearly that is the same thing if he cashes it but I would rather have a paper saying what he is being paid and why, that both of you sign, so he can never come after you in court over it.