100 AMP hot stuff

edcopp · #1 12/09/04, 08:04 PM

I have a 100 AMP service entrance. After building the new room addition and hooking up some new curcits, I now have one curcit that I can't shut off. Even the main breaker will not stop the juice.

So I am sure that I have a problem, and just wondered if anyone was up on this.

Is it possible that there is a grounding problem? Could the ground in the last curcit be picking up this hot stuff?

Any ideas?

agmantoo · #2 12/09/04, 08:28 PM

If the main breaker will not interrupt the power to that circuit then someone has tapped power at the meter base to create another circuit. This statement is based on your having a correct breaker setup with a factory main breaker and not a backfeed makeshift breaker box that is wired incorrectly.

herefordman · #3 12/09/04, 08:46 PM

Follow the service where it enters the house, if its an older house its not unusual to find an original older panel ahead of the newer 100 AMP panel.
Its not a good practice but has been done by some home electricians, I once replaced a service panel on my elderly parents home, and after killing the power scared the hell out of myself when I grounded out the new panel while installing it, not realizing some of the ciruits inside were still live through looped connections.
Keep checking everything with a meter before you ever mess with it !!!

ed/IL · #4 12/09/04, 08:50 PM

A ground problem would not do that. Open the pannel and have alook see. Turn off main and use tester to see where power is coming from. Check everybreaker. Remove main breaker and see if any circut on hot side of main. Never heard of that problem before. Should be easy enough to trace. When you find out please post.

comfortablynumb · #5 12/09/04, 09:42 PM

you might have a fused breaker.. looks off but is stuck on inside. yank all the breakers out one at a time till you see that cuircut go out.
if you remove all the breakers and it stays ON, then it might be wired righ to the main in the box. If you can see a jerry rigged wire to the main breaker, shut the main off.. if the line is still on its been tapped off the main somewhere with a seperate feed line hidden.
find it before the power company does and avoid the hassel when they go all nuts on you over it.
and be careful!

aaatraker · #6 12/16/04, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edcopp

I have a 100 AMP service entrance. After building the new room addition and hooking up some new curcits, I now have one curcit that I can't shut off. Even the main breaker will not stop the juice.

So I am sure that I have a problem, and just wondered if anyone was up on this.

Is it possible that there is a grounding problem? Could the ground in the last curcit be picking up this hot stuff?

Any ideas?

QUESTION: HOW DO YOU KNOW ITS HOT? NOT TRYING TO BE FUNNY, JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. ARE YOU USING A METER TO CHECK IT? IF SO WHAT IS THE VOLTAGE READING BETWEEN THE GROUNDED CONDUCTOR{ THE WHITE WIRE} AND THE HOT WIRE AT THE RECEPTACLE? BETWEEN THE HOT AND GROUND? AND BETWEEN THE GROUNDED WIRE AND GROUND? ARE YOU USING A DIGITAL METER? CAN YOU PLUG A LIGHT OR RADIO INTO THE RECEPTALE AND HAVE IT WORK RIGHT? IS THE HOT CIRCUIT ONE OF THE NEW CIRCUITS YOU INSTALLED? IS THE CIRCUIT A HOME RUN BACK TO THE BREAKER PANEL? HAS ANYTHING HAPPEN TO YOUR POWER SINCE YOU INSTALLED THE CIRCUITS? POWER OUTAGE? OR BROWN OUT ANYTHING THAT COULD HAVE EFFECTED YOUR UTILITY SERVICE TO YOUR HOME? SHORT OUT ANYTHING? MORE INFO NEEDED!!!!!!!

Jack in VA · #7 12/16/04, 09:21 AM

Maybe someone in the past was stealing electricity.

edcopp · #8 12/28/04, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaatraker

QUESTION: HOW DO YOU KNOW ITS HOT? NOT TRYING TO BE FUNNY, JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. ARE YOU USING A METER TO CHECK IT? IF SO WHAT IS THE VOLTAGE READING BETWEEN THE GROUNDED CONDUCTOR{ THE WHITE WIRE} AND THE HOT WIRE AT THE RECEPTACLE? BETWEEN THE HOT AND GROUND? AND BETWEEN THE GROUNDED WIRE AND GROUND? ARE YOU USING A DIGITAL METER? CAN YOU PLUG A LIGHT OR RADIO INTO THE RECEPTALE AND HAVE IT WORK RIGHT? IS THE HOT CIRCUIT ONE OF THE NEW CIRCUITS YOU INSTALLED? IS THE CIRCUIT A HOME RUN BACK TO THE BREAKER PANEL? HAS ANYTHING HAPPEN TO YOUR POWER SINCE YOU INSTALLED THE CIRCUITS? POWER OUTAGE? OR BROWN OUT ANYTHING THAT COULD HAVE EFFECTED YOUR UTILITY SERVICE TO YOUR HOME? SHORT OUT ANYTHING? MORE INFO NEEDED!!!!!!!

Here is how we know it was hot.

When the main breaker was turned off things like the chop saw, lights and the drywall screw gun kept working. This causes concern to say the least.

Here is what we think happened. A bare ground wire inside the box came close to the meter side of the incoming wire. The ground wire picked up current from the pole and electrified the entire ground field(we think). Some minor adjustments with a wooden hammer handle seem to heve eliminated the problem. The guy running the saw says it is a miricle.

oldhoot · #9 12/29/04, 07:23 AM

Probably not the cause because it is so remote but the old Delta system had a ''hot neutral''. Very few of those old systems remain in service as they were all changed to the 12Y system years ago. The Delta system was an ungrounded system and caused a lot of problems.

Flora IL [city power co] still has the Delta system. I've worked on houses etc over there in the past and the ground can kill you. [I was knocked off'n an alum ladder whilst accidently hittin the bare ground of the enterance!]

Many folks used the ground for power to run a/c, deep freezes and even electric heaters. Drive a ground rod for the neutral and you were in business--that is until a lighting storm came up. Burned up appliances was the result.
oldhoot

Timber · #10 12/29/04, 08:01 AM

oldhoot, at least wasn't those delta's corner grounded?
Here, the practice on old delta to delta systems L2 was tied to ground on the secondary.

Timber

oldhoot · #11 12/29/04, 09:46 PM

Timber! Yeah they were supposed to be--but--this little local one wasn't. Some old timers called it a ''floatin ground'' or ''floatin neutral". After I quit workin on that system/houses they were in the process of groundin the system. Required homeowners to drive ground rods and have a secure ground. The city also required'm to take off those ''illegal taps'' to the neutral. Of course after their system was grounded those ''taps'' wouldn't work any more. I don't know if they changed the system or not. They were talkin about it back then--about 30 years ago. oldhoot.

aaatraker · #12 12/30/04, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edcopp

Here is how we know it was hot.

When the main breaker was turned off things like the chop saw, lights and the drywall screw gun kept working. This causes concern to say the least.

Here is what we think happened. A bare ground wire inside the box came close to the meter side of the incoming wire. The ground wire picked up current from the pole and electrified the entire ground field(we think). Some minor adjustments with a wooden hammer handle seem to heve eliminated the problem. The guy running the saw says it is a miricle.

DON'T SEE HOW THAT COULD GIVE YOU A COMPLETED CIRCUIT TO RUN EQUIPMENT. I WOULD LOOK AT THE METER AND THE BREAKER USING A METER TO CHECK FOR LEAKAGE. BARE GROUND WIRES ARE IN CLOSE TO HOT WIRES IN ALL PANELS AND DON'T CAUSE THAT EFFECT TO HAPPEN

Timber · #13 01/01/05, 09:42 AM

Never thought of tapping the neutral for an energy source, Then again at work we generate our own power and transmit it to varies transformers at our plants don't need too. I guess you learn something everyday good or bad.

Timber