Water well is short cycling

G5 Farms · #1 08/01/12, 12:47 PM

We just moved to our farm and I turned on the water sprinkler last night for the first time. Went to check the well and see how the pressures held up and it kick in around 40psi, builds quickly to about 60psi, and shuts off. Problem is that it takes about 10 seconds tops for it to build that pressure up, about 20 seconds of the sprinkler running for it to drop back to 40 and the process starts over again. From what I understand, it's the off and on that kills well pumps. Read on another site that the pump should run for about a minute before it gets back to pressure, never heard that before. There's also a small hairline crack in my pressure tank. You don't see water flowing out but there's some algae buildup.

My quick solution to keep the well from cycling so fast was to turn on a second sprinkler and just make it run constantly. Where should I be looking to fix it right?

billdarlene · #2 08/01/12, 01:04 PM

I would check the pressure tank is it full of water (heavy) or can you tilt it easy (light) it should be light and the tank should help keep the pump from kicking on so soon that would be my first check.

Zilli · #3 08/01/12, 01:10 PM

Pressure switch?

A pretty easy and cheap fix (around $10.00 - $15.00).

Even if you replace it and find out that wasn't the problem, you're not out much.

foxtrapper · #4 08/01/12, 01:29 PM

Sounds very much like a pressure tank problem. Either undersized or air loss. The fracture is worrisome, as when it ruptures, it will make a heck of a mess.

I'd be most inclined to simply replace the tank since it's already cracked.

plowjockey · #5 08/01/12, 02:36 PM

+1 pressure tank

Recently replaced our's exact same symptoms

agmantoo · #6 08/01/12, 02:58 PM

The issue is with the tank. Is the tank a bladder type or is it an old plain storage tank? Is there any markings on the tank? Does the water connect side or to the bottom of the tank?

wy_white_wolf · #7 08/01/12, 03:16 PM

How big is the pressure tank and what is the rated flow from the pump?

The system may be just fine. Running 1 sprinkler was low eoungh that the pump could still pressure up the system to 60psi but still large enough to drain the tank quickly. I've seen that before when people tried to cut corners and installed a small pressure tank when compared to the flow the pump could put out.

WWW

G5 Farms · #8 08/01/12, 03:50 PM

It's a galvanized tank, not a pressure tank. I think it's the 42 gallon size but can't say for sure. I'm looking at an 85 gallon pressurized tank to replace it. Found one online with decent reviews and in stock locally. Going from a small plain tank to a larger pressurized should do the trick I think. Anything I need to watch for when changing it?

Don't know the flow from the pump. I assume it's a good size because it repressurizes the current tank fast!

agmantoo · #9 08/01/12, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G5 Farms

It's a galvanized tank, not a pressure tank. I think it's the 42 gallon size but can't say for sure. I'm looking at an 85 gallon pressurized tank to replace it. Found one online with decent reviews and in stock locally. Going from a small plain tank to a larger pressurized should do the trick I think. Anything I need to watch for when changing it?

Don't know the flow from the pump. I assume it's a good size because it repressurizes the current tank fast!

You already know the pressure that the pumps turns on. The valve in the top of the bladder tank needs to be set at 2 PSI BELOW the turn on pressure. It is hard to set that accurately because the reading on the tank will be with a different gauge and the two gauges are not calibrated to each other. If after installing the new tank there happens to be a short delay until the pump kicks in just let a little air out of the tank until you get a good transition from the pump being off and till it kicks in without any pause in the water delivery. Do not dispose of the galvanized tank until after you see that the water is free of any grit. If you see any contaminant in the water get back in touch.

G5 Farms · #10 08/02/12, 10:27 AM

I went to pick up the new pressure tank last night and read the instructions and it said something about a pressure valve or something in the pipe in the well that has to be removed if you are replacing a standard tank with a pressurized tank. I wish I'd written it down now because I can't find the instruction manual on the company's website. Anybody have any idea what that is? I am not pulling the well pipe on my own...

I'm thinking all I have to do is install a pipe and T where with the old tank had a two ports - one in and one out. Am I simplifying it and going to tear something up?

agmantoo · #11 08/02/12, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G5 Farms

I went to pick up the new pressure tank last night and read the instructions and it said something about a pressure valve or something in the pipe in the well that has to be removed if you are replacing a standard tank with a pressurized tank. I wish I'd written it down now because I can't find the instruction manual on the company's website. Anybody have any idea what that is? I am not pulling the well pipe on my own...

I'm thinking all I have to do is install a pipe and T where with the old tank had a two ports - one in and one out. Am I simplifying it and going to tear something up?

Bladder tanks typically come with a 90 degree fitting in the bottom of the bladder tank. Just install a short length of pipe into the 90 degree fitting and then install a tee on the end of the short length of pipe. Bring the water from the well outlet to one side of the Tee. From the other side of the Tee plumb the water going to the house. I always like to install a ball valve on both the inlet and the outlet of the Tee. The ball valves will let you isolate the bladder tank and the house. These two valves are great aids when having to troubleshoot problems or to localize faults or leaks. Set the pressure on the bladder tank as I stated previously. Any questions, just ask!

G5 Farms · #12 08/02/12, 01:29 PM

Thanks agman! I have to pour a new pad as the new tank is bigger so once that is set and I have my fittings I guess I'll dive right in!

sammyd · #13 08/02/12, 02:05 PM

Most old time non bladder tanks will have a device in the well pipe that allows air to be sucked into the pipe to help the non bladder tank hold pressure I suppose that would have to be removed.

agmantoo · #14 08/02/12, 03:23 PM

sammyd

If G5 Farms has one of those devices it is not working as that is his original problem. : )

G5 Farms · #15 08/02/12, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyd

Most old time non bladder tanks will have a device in the well pipe that allows air to be sucked into the pipe to help the non bladder tank hold pressure I suppose that would have to be removed.

What does one of those look like and could I even see it?

There is a device on the top of the well - a brass fitting with a spring inside it. Is that what you're talking about?

Water well is short cycling - Shop Talk

agmantoo · #16 08/02/12, 05:58 PM

G5 Farms

You do not have one of the devices. They were used on jet pumps and you have a submersible.

sammyd · #17 08/02/12, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

sammyd

If G5 Farms has one of those devices it is not working as that is his original problem. : )

I understand that but no one addressed it.

jdrobison · #18 08/02/12, 10:34 PM

what you put in pic is a pressure relief valve. it protects things if the pressure switch sticks.

and they do use those air inlet devices on submersible pumps that have the old non bladder tanks. I have been doing this for 20 years.

it usually looks like a tire valve stem on the pipe from the well. all you would need to do is cap it with a tire valve stem cap. it is prob plugged up anyway and thats why is isnt working. those old tanks needed air in them, they usualy had a device that screwed into the side of the tank that has a float on the inside to let extra air out and keep it at the correct level. my old system had this and when it quit it would spit air out of the faucets each time the pump came on.

there should also be a check valve in line between the air inlet on the pipe and the tank. this keeps the tank from leaking off back down the well pipe since there is a very small hole in bottom of the first pipe joint down the well so the water can drain back and suck air in the air inlet device and when the pump starts the next time this air is added to the holding tank. this is why those tanks had a separate in and out. I hope this helps you understand how your old system works.

agmantoo · #19 08/03/12, 05:58 AM

jdrobison

I am aware of putting a hole in the down pipe. It works but it is inefficient as it wastes pumped water when the pump is running. It is nothing more than a drilled hole put in by the installer. I am also familiar with the float valves for controlling excess air in the old galvanized tank. Yes, I am also aware that you need a check valve if you have a hole drilled in the down pipe. Schrader valves are installed so that air can be added. I am also familiar with having a small compressor connected to a float switch to add air to the tank. The device that allows air to be sucked into the water supply is similar to the link below or a variation thereof. As for what sammyd described I do believe it is for a jet pump. I have never seen the type of air volume control shown in the link below on a submersible pump because there is no way to get on the suction side of the submersed pump. Once G5 Farms gets his bladder tank installed he will have his water logging issues resolved.

Merrill MFG. :: Product Catalog

jdrobison · #20 08/03/12, 07:18 AM

those are the air volume controls used on the old tanks, (the piece with the float lets extra air out of the tank,) you dont use the other part on a sub system and there are many of them in my area on submersed pumps. then you have a check valve and a schrader to let air in down to the bleed hole. also these schraders used a core with a much weaker spring so the suction would draw the air in easier. you lose very little out of the bleed hole since it is so small. I do agree he will have a better system with the bladder tank. he just needs to be sure and leave the check valve so if his system has the bleed hole it wont depressurize constantly making the pump run more.
the other option is to replace the first joint of down pipe to eliminate the bleed hole.

also you should never have a valve between the tank and the well. if someone who don't know would turn it off and the pump started and there was no relief valve it can damage the pump very fast. most sub pumps are capable of producing well over 100 lbs pressure if a pressure sw fails or that valve gets closed