wirefeed welder question

[fishhead]

I was looking at wire feed welders on line and noticed that some used a gas and others used wire coated with flux.

Which is better for everyday welding? Is there a difference besides cost of wire?

[sammyd]

the flux is messier but you don't have to worry about your bottle of gas running out
both will provide a decent weld

[fishhead]

When making multiple passes with fluxed wire on thick metal do you have to grind out the slag?

Also, does higher amperage mean you can weld thicker metal?

[Allen W]

The flux is actually inside the wire. It splatters and doesn't look real pretty but doesn't lay down a coating on the weld like a stick welder.

Yes a higher amperage welder would weld thicker metal. If I was welding anything really thick I would want a regular welder but they do make some serious commercial size wire welders.

[Sawmill Jim]

Welder with the gas does much better for me anyway.Can't be in windy place though .Buddy had a high dollar one and we have reworked semi trailers with it .

[oldasrocks]

fishhead, I'm a retired professional welder. I have a Miller 250 wirefeed. It will run .023, .030 and .035 with ease. The heavier the wire the thicker metal can be welded. With it I can weld car body steel to 1/2 inch plate. Don't ever be fooled into buying a 110V welder. Don't use any flux wire.

I'd give you some lessons if we were closer. Its practice practice practice. Learn ot backstep if you want welds on thin metal with no warps.

[oldasrocks]

Additions

Use 75/25 gas unless you'e welding stainless then use Trigas. The main trick to wire welding is to have the metal clean. Stick welding will burn through paint and rust. If you ever get bubbles in a weld that is an indication that you have contaminates bubbling or burning in the weld.

[sammyd]

but they do make some serious commercial size wire welders

you should see some of the ones where I work

[Allen W]

sammyd I've seen the welds from the big migs on equipment. It would be something to see the welders.

[idonutn0]

Using gas gives you a cleaner weld. Also, dont get a 110 volt. Spend the extra for a 220 volt

[HermitJohn]

There is a lot of variation in the 120V migs. You dont want a cheap one though I found one I am happy with that is a genuine clone of a Lincoln, in other words it uses Lincoln consumables and parts. For me, a mig is only for thin metal, I am perfectly happy with a stick for thicker metals. Yes I know you can get a big mig and weld thick metals, but I dont see a reason since I am not running a pro welding shop or doing production work. Stick welders used can be had very cheap and they are very low maintenance. Stick welder plus a small quality mig for thin metals is fine. Modern world, lot alloys and aluminum showing up, I will probably someday regret not getting a TIG, but I dont think I would use it enough to justify the cost. Heck at this point not sure I use any welder enough to justify going and buying one if I didnt already own them. But far as I am concerned, its a must have tool for a low budget lifestyle. I can fabricate bits and pieces out of scrap to do repairs that simply wouldnt be doable for reasonable cost any other way. The days of a local welding shop that would do small jobs for few bucks are long past, plus you have to drag whatever pieces to the shop and then try to explain to the guy what exactly you want done.

[fishhead]

So a stick welder is better for thicker steel than a low cost wire feed? I thought stick welders were outdated?

Most of my welding would be 1/4" or less.

[HermitJohn]

Its not necessarily "better", its CHEAPER and less moving parts, basically a transformer and a fan. Old technology that still works fine. It can sit in corner for years unused and fire right up, no circuit boards, no liners, no nozzles, no gas. I bought one in 90s for like $25 and it still works. And if you have never used one, its probably bit more difficult to get used to, you have to learn to adjust since the rod is constantly eroding so you have to learn to automatically adjust distance of remaining electrode to workpiece for this loss. Migs were annoying to me since I kept getting too close cause it was in my brain to automatically adjust... 120V mig is not going to do 1/4 inch steel. I'd say 1/8 inch or less. And the cheap migs dont allow settings to do thin metal. Stay away from el cheapo crappo $90 specials from Harbor Freight. Most other cheapo ones arent much better. We are talking $400 and up for quality 120V mig. You will need a 220V mig to handle more than 1/8 inch steel. Now you are not going to like stick welder for thin metal though if desperate you can get a real ugly weld with lot swearing, thats why I have a mig. Your average buzz box 220V welder is going to do fine from around 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch. DO NOT BUY A 120V STICK WELDER!!!! THEY ARE USELESS JUNK!!!! You should have little problem buying a used 220V stick welder for between $50 and $100. Yea 220V is a pain if you arent wired for it, but really nothing is going to do more than 1/8 inch on 120V, neither stick nor mig. If the wiring upgrade is going to cost too much, take a look at an engine driven welder like a ZENA (do a google). I've used ZENA and they are ok welder. I think they are overpriced for what they are, but they are an ok stick welder.

[fishhead]

I don't have a problem wiring up a 220 plugin but I think I'm out of slots in my panel.

[texican]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Its not necessarily "better", its CHEAPER and less moving parts, basically a transformer and a fan. Old technology that still works fine. It can sit in corner for years unused and fire right up, no circuit boards, no liners, no nozzles, no gas. I bought one in 90s for like $25 and it still works. And if you have never used one, its probably bit more difficult to get used to, you have to learn to adjust since the rod is constantly eroding so you have to learn to automatically adjust distance of remaining electrode to workpiece for this loss. Migs were annoying to me since I kept getting too close cause it was in my brain to automatically adjust... 120V mig is not going to do 1/4 inch steel. I'd say 1/8 inch or less. And the cheap migs dont allow settings to do thin metal. Stay away from el cheapo crappo $90 specials from Harbor Freight. Most other cheapo ones arent much better. We are talking $400 and up for quality 120V mig. You will need a 220V mig to handle more than 1/8 inch steel. Now you are not going to like stick welder for thin metal though if desperate you can get a real ugly weld with lot swearing, thats why I have a mig. Your average buzz box 220V welder is going to do fine from around 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch. DO NOT BUY A 120V STICK WELDER!!!! THEY ARE USELESS JUNK!!!! You should have little problem buying a used 220V stick welder for between $50 and $100. Yea 220V is a pain if you arent wired for it, but really nothing is going to do more than 1/8 inch on 120V, neither stick nor mig. If the wiring upgrade is going to cost too much, take a look at an engine driven welder like a ZENA (do a google). I've used ZENA and they are ok welder. I think they are overpriced for what they are, but they are an ok stick welder.

What HJ said.

I've got a 30 year old 220v stick welder... it's bombproof... no moving parts outside of the fan, (mine is broke, but I have a spare), and it'll work fine for short periods without the fan. Use it for heavy steel.

I chose an el cheapo wire feeder (~$100) because it wasn't for professional level use... couldn't see spending $400 or more for a 'good one' with gas.

Fishhead... do you have full size breakers? You can get the half size breakers now, and that'd free up some slots.

[OkieDavid]

Thanks for the comments about the 120v wire welders. I was considering one to have around for lightweight work like "glueing" stock panels in the corral where they have broken welds or popped loose. Trying to get by powering it with a 3000-4000 watt generator.

[fishhead]

Yes my breakers are full sized. I'll see if I can find the half size ones next time I'm shopping.

I think I know what you're talking about when you say half sized. Do they have 2 small levers instead of one on the breaker? We've got those in our office.

If that's the case when one of the small levers is tripped is it necessary to trip the other one on the same breaker before resetting? We do that but it means shutting down computers.

[sammyd]

I used my 100 dollar 120V wire feed to weld up the hitch on my haybine a couple of years ago and it's still together

[Win07_351]

Flux core is used with heavier gage metals or outside where wind could be a problem blowing away the shielding gas.

[Win07_351]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Its not necessarily "better", its CHEAPER and less moving parts, basically a transformer and a fan. Old technology that still works fine. It can sit in corner for years unused and fire right up, no circuit boards, no liners, no nozzles, no gas. I bought one in 90s for like $25 and it still works. And if you have never used one, its probably bit more difficult to get used to, you have to learn to adjust since the rod is constantly eroding so you have to learn to automatically adjust distance of remaining electrode to workpiece for this loss. Migs were annoying to me since I kept getting too close cause it was in my brain to automatically adjust... 120V mig is not going to do 1/4 inch steel. I'd say 1/8 inch or less. And the cheap migs dont allow settings to do thin metal. Stay away from el cheapo crappo $90 specials from Harbor Freight. Most other cheapo ones arent much better. We are talking $400 and up for quality 120V mig. You will need a 220V mig to handle more than 1/8 inch steel. Now you are not going to like stick welder for thin metal though if desperate you can get a real ugly weld with lot swearing, thats why I have a mig. Your average buzz box 220V welder is going to do fine from around 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch. DO NOT BUY A 120V STICK WELDER!!!! THEY ARE USELESS JUNK!!!! You should have little problem buying a used 220V stick welder for between $50 and $100. Yea 220V is a pain if you arent wired for it, but really nothing is going to do more than 1/8 inch on 120V, neither stick nor mig.

Well said