Battery Rehab?

seagullplayer · #1 05/04/11, 08:25 AM

A buddy that worked at a junk yard years ago told me this:

He said they would dump the acid out of an old battery into a glass jar, then refill the battery with a baking soda and water mixture and let it set a day or two. Then rinse the battery a few times with clean water. Then refill the acid and charge the battery.
He claimed that this almost always worked.

I use to buy batteries off them and never had any problems.

I am temped to try it on my motorcycle battery, it is getting weak.
I don't see that I have anything to lose, otherwise I am going to have to
buy a new one anyway.

Anyone have any experience with this?

Any ideas on the baking soda to water ratio?

Travis in Louisiana · #2 05/04/11, 09:13 AM

I tried looking up this procedure on the internet, but could not find nothing. I have not heard of this, but if this is what they did, and you have a bad battery already, give it a try. It can't hurt to try and may save you some bucks. I guess the baking soda solution would have be kinda of watery to pour into the battery. You may be able to filter the acid through some coffee filters or a clean rag to remove any particles, if there is any. Lets us know how it turned out. You can buy acid from the auto parts store if you need more.

mothernature · #3 05/04/11, 09:29 AM

Make sure you use distilled water. DH has done this with older golf car batteries. Not sure of the exact ratio, but it was watery.

Two Cents Worth · #4 05/04/11, 11:41 AM

I think that I would rinse the battery upside down in order to rinse out any sulfation material that has fallen to the bottom of the battery cells once the baking soda solution has neutralized any remaining solution.

Harry Chickpea · #5 05/04/11, 12:39 PM

Interesting idea. Higher heat (somewhere around 100 degrees F but less than boiling) and agitation would likely help. The idea of sulfate removal isn't new, and is used to "clean" lead for recycling.

PbSO4 + Na2CO3 > PbCO3 + Na2SO4

Quote from Richard Perez, Home Power magazine #29, page 44:

"The biggest problem in lead-acid cells is sulfation due to chronic undercharging. Here the sulfate ions have entered into deep bonds with the lead on the cell's plates. The sulfate ions can bond with the lead at three successively deeper energy levels. Level One is the bond we use when we normally charge and discharge the cell. After a month or so at Level One, some of the bonds form Level Two bonds which require more electric power to break. After several months of being at Level Two bond, the sulfate ions really cozy up to the lead and form Level Three bonds. Level Three bonds are not accessible electrically. No amount of recharging will break Level Three bonds. The longer the lead sulfate bond stays at a level the more likely it is to form a closer acquaintance and enter the next deeper level. This is why it is so important to fully, regularly, and completely, recharge lead-acid cells."

My guess is that the level 2 bonds are still susceptible to the baking soda or soda ash (the extra carbon dioxide in baking soda would fizz a little, providing some agitation, while the actual reaction is from the depleted baking soda [soda ash] acting on the lead paste.

The reaction would effectively remove a lot of the bound up lead sulfate, especially after repeated rinses (a solid precipitate should be seen in the rinse water) and leave some exposed lead plate or grid.

Adding fresh battery acid would then (in theory) re-start the conversions on recharging.

Downsides would be:
1. Not all the sulphated lead would be removed.
2. The grid structure could be left substantially weakened, leading to possible internal shorts between plates - that could lead to an explosion of the battery under certain conditions, especially normal voltage charging.
3. The capacity of the battery would be significantly reduced.

I would not want a lead-acid motorcycle battery exploding between my legs or at my butt, however it would be an interesting experiment to try to rejuvenate a battery this way. Be aware that the liquid and precipitate you will be getting is hazardous waste and should NOT but drained into a sewer or septic. I would store it away from harm's way in an open container protected from rain until the water evaporated out, then deal with the lead salts.

Ray · #6 05/04/11, 01:14 PM

Hi, we've done this for years to get a little extra life out of auto batteries, an aspirin in each cell was recommended too, for the same reason the base of an aspirin is baking soda. like mentioned there are good and poor results involved in this procedure at times. dissolving all of the solid sulfate that builds up and grounds out the cells doesn't always work, it may dissolve most of it and gain some on the charge but I don;t know that you can clean all of the solids connecting the plates together. It would be a good process that would clean them completely then you would have a like new battery, and some come out fine others just won't clean so I say good luck to all that want to do all the work but I don't need the batteries that bad that I can't buy a new one now. In earlier years I did this and ended up with some extra batteries around, they sell higher now. So no loss. best wishes, ray

Darren · #7 05/04/11, 01:47 PM

I don't see how a baking solution is going to remove the lead suphate that's formed on the plates. Over time the sulphur from the sulphuric acid combines with the lead. The high frequency "ping" from a desulphator seems to break the bonds between the sulphur and lead and force more sulphur back into the acid.

That seems to be why I'm seeing an increase in the specific gravity of the acid. If I have a weak battery an hydrometer points me to which cell has problems and allows me to see what happens over time.

I can see a benefit to cleaning out any sludge that may be have collected in the bottom. I'm not sure putting something in a battery that will neutralize acid is preferrable over plain distilled water.

mothernature · #8 05/04/11, 03:44 PM

OK guys, here's the deal - The battery will NOT be like new again. Darren, yes flushing it with plain distilled water after the old acid is (properly) disposed of will do the job. The added baking soda helps remove more of the old acid (neutralize it). Harry, I agree, I would NOT want to risk battery explosion - especially with a bike!! All this process does is give a little extra life to an old battery. It works great on golf car batteris if you are not planning on keeping it. A friend of ours who bought and sold them tipped us off to this 'battery rehab'. When you must have 6 to 8 good batteries for the golf cars this process pays off. If it were me, I would not do this to my bike battery, well worth getting a new one!

Blu3duk · #9 05/06/11, 12:48 PM

back in the good ole days, when batteries were such you had caps on them to add water to, there were packets sold as 'battery rejuvenator" and they contained baking soda and a couple of inert ingredients that dd not help nor hurt.

It will clean the plates to a degree, but needs vibratory motion to get anything "stuck" to un hook from those places.

If you have a need for sulfuric acid you can boil the acid and concentrate it more, though remember it is acid and it takes a lot of heat to boil sufuric, I use it to recover precious metals but i purchase it new from the auto parts store...... it can be cleaned but not recommended to use again in the battery.

I never had a battery blow up that we rejuvenated, dad had one blow up in a crawler on him one time, but the alternator went funky and over charged and the battery over heated.... totally different scenario.

William
Idaho

Harry Chickpea · #10 05/06/11, 02:30 PM

"I never had a battery blow up that we rejuvenated, dad had one blow up in a crawler on him one time, but the alternator went funky and over charged and the battery over heated.... totally different scenario."

Not really. If a cell or two are shorted, the the "full charge" voltage that the battery now has is two or four volts BENEATH what the charging system is design to provide. As it attempts to bring the battery up to full voltage, it will overcharge the remaining good cells. Slightly different, but still the same concept and effect.

DW had a used Toyota she bought used after a battery had done just that and exploded. Traces of the acid that hadn't been found and removed were CONSTANTLY causing problems. Most expensive cheap car we've ever had because of those problems.

kdts2002 · #11 05/06/11, 04:36 PM

http://www.december212012.com/phpBB2...olt+batteries+

Should tell you what you want to know.

kdts2002 · #12 05/06/11, 04:42 PM

Try this guys solution.

http://www.december212012.com/phpBB2...olt+batteries+

seagullplayer · #13 06/03/11, 06:22 AM

I was all set to give it a try last night, took the battery out of my bike, only to find out it is a gel cell! But I did notice the terminals where not as tight or as clean as they could be.
Put the battery on the charger for the night, will give it another go this afternoon.

I will have to try this process somewhere down the line, but not today.

foxtrapper · #14 06/03/11, 06:34 AM

How crazy you feeling? Another trick that I've watched being done is to use an A/C welder or direct to ac power from the wall. Jumper it across the battery for a few seconds to blast the gunk off the plates. It's worked surprisingly well in my observations (never done it myself).

seagullplayer · #15 06/03/11, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrapper

How crazy you feeling? Another trick that I've watched being done is to use an A/C welder or direct to ac power from the wall. Jumper it across the battery for a few seconds to blast the gunk off the plates. It's worked surprisingly well in my observations (never done it myself).

I have heard of such, I don't have a welder.

I have also heard of shorting the battery to drain it, then change it reversing the leads for a hour or so, then short it again and charge it the correct polarity?