1975 and earlier Jeeps,what to look for?

[mightybooboo]

OK,car died and repair is about 5 grand....time to look for a pre smog 4x4 Jeep.Meaning 1975 and earlier in California. Tell me about engines,I like straight 6 or 4,mileage.Really would prefer no V shaped engines but tell me about those too in Jeeps.

You know,the whole story.Problem child Gremlins.ANYTHING.....Willeys,you name it!

Oh,landcruiser,FJ40 stories too.No Ford/chevy/dodge models.

Thanks!

[Ross]

The nice thing about Jeeps is you can rebuild them from the VIN tag out. The only thing I know about Jeeps (this morning ) is the cj5 was kinda tippy on corners. Get the 6 if you want to tow anything but the 4 is fine if you just want to putter into town for groceries in bad weather. That said the 6 will get you home again too.

[Esteban29304]

Neither the 6 cylinder, or the 4 will get any mpg to brag about. The older 6 cylinder is a tough motor, though. Look out for rust , whining from transmission, transfer, rear end, blow-by [ smoking for where you add oil ] , etc. There are plenty of Jeep forums on the web to ask questions.

[Tarheel]

Had the CJ5 with the 6. Tuff as nails, if you could get the wheels over it- it would go. These vehicles were very reasonably priced and very economical to work on 25 years ago. Good luck !

[Ky-Jeeper]

The 258 straight six. There is a Chevy HEI inginition that replaces the junk one, which in turn makes the CJ really reliable. The 4-banger is way under power for highway use. Check with flashlight the very bottom of frame the entire length of Jeep for rust through. It's the number one deal breaker on CJ's.

Here you go.

www.jeepsunlimited.com

Pm if any questions.

[Truckinguy]

I had a 77 CJ7 and it was the toughest vehicle I ever owned. It had the 258 six cylinder and it started like a charm in -20 degree weather. My brother and I replaced the body in my Dad's garage in one weekend, drove it in Friday night and drive it out Monday morning. We used a one piece fibreglass body that my Dad used to sell.

The bodies rust out pretty quickly, maybe not as quick in California. My frame finally rusted out just behind the rear wheels. You're going to get terrible mileage no matter what but the 258 will have more torque than you'll know what to do with. We beat the crap out of it, took it on motorcycle off road trails and went off roading every chance we got and it just kept going. It's been 20 years since I parted it out and I still miss it. I hope to build another one someday.

[mightybooboo]

Lots of great advice and thanks for the link.Yup,Im reading tuff as nails too,what about axles,any problems/leaks common? How much benefit in real world ice/snow are the locker axles worth? Are rears at least posi,what about fronts?

What are you guys calling horrible mileage. Was surprised to hear so many good things on earlycj5.com forum on the 225 Buick engine,guess I shouldnt write that off hastily? So good to hear you all like that 258 motor too,sounds like just what i want.

Keep em coming,I really need the advice and its much appreciated!!

[Truckinguy]

Actually, I can't remember the actual mileage being 20 years ago and all but I had the Quadratrac full time four wheel drive system and an automatic transmission and it sucked the gas up like there was no tomorrow. The system worked pretty good but I had a clunking when I went around corners sometimes. I was told it had to do with the clutches in the transfer case so I put in an additive which helped but I went through u-joints pretty regularly so you might want to stay away from that system.

I would think a standard tranny and unlocking front hubs would give you better mileage and less strain on the drive system.

Did I mention I miss my jeep...??

[catahoula]

I used to have a 1972 FJ-55 Toyota Land-cruiser, the four door version of the FJ-40. It's the only vehicle I regret selling. I liked the extra carrying capacity and the fact that it had almost no plastic on it. The fuel mileage was pretty abysmal but the rig certainly had heart. Some people think the FJ series rigs are underpowered so they put V8s in them which is a shame, the metric Chevy straight six is all about low end torque. All the FJ series parts are interchangeable 2 door 4 door and trucks.
Don't let the "made in Japan" fool you, 1970s and earlier land-cruisers are built tough. You see a lot of the trucks in Central America, easy to work on for sure.

I looked at the engine on a new Toyota forklift, it's a modern version of the FJ series engine. Industrial strength rigs, if it wasn't for the poor mileage I'd go out and find another one.

[HermitJohn]

Ok, pre-1975. Think CJ7 was around and thats what you want unless you need super short wheelbase of a CJ5 for some reason. The 1971 and and back through the 60s were Kaiser Corporation. They offered the old Willys F-head 4 which you really dont want, its the flathead WWII engine only with a redesigned head for better breathing. It is NOT a hiway engine and wont last if you try to force it to max rpm very often. Really a tractor engine that should have come with a governor to keep rpm down. For 60s era Jeep with an OEM engine you want the Buick V6. Oh and in 60s you had the CJ5, but no CJ7, instead there was the Jeepster which is actually pretty nice vehicle, I've only seen them with the Buick V6, but think they offered the F-head 4. Somewhere in there think they offered a CJ6, longer version of CJ5, but kinda rare. Of course there were all kinds of kits to put just about any engine you can imagine in a Jeep, one of neatest was one to put a Ford 2.3 four cylinder in anything that came with the Willys flat head or F-head four. And of course anything with early Buick V6 meant that Buick V8 would bolt right in. Kaiser offered the Buick 350 V8 in the Wagoneer. Early Buick 350s had oiling problems. They would throw a rod at around 70k to 80k miles unless you went through bearings before that occured. Oddly I never heard of the Buick V6 having this problem though it was just V8 with couple cylinders lopped off. I've owned Buick V8s, never owned a Buick V6. Olds V8 was the bulletproof engine back then though it didnt get the gas mileage of the Buick V8. Buick, Olds, and Pontiac V8 all had same bolt pattern. Chevy had top two bolts on block different placement.

Back to the 70s and the AMC version of Jeep. AMC killed off the F-head 4 and offered 199, 232, 258 straight six. They ALL look very simular cause they are all basically same engine, just stroke and bore differences.. You want the 258. If you are geared right and you tune one right, a CJ can get around 18-20mpg on hiway. Most people stick huge knobbly tires on them and drive like a bat out of hades and wonder why they get 10mpg. These really were not good hiway vehicles to begin with, putting them on stilts doesnt help. And if you go V8 you really dont want the 304 V8. The 360 was actually pretty good. I've owned three of the big Wagoneers with them. Even with quadratrack and automatic, one of those I owned got honest 16mpg on hiway. The other two got like 14mpg, but back then I wasnt going to do whole lot just to get couple more mpg.

Saying all that, and even though you dont want to hear it, I'd take a stock 71 Ford Bronco with 200 straight six and 3 on tree any day over any Jeep. I used to own one until it rusted into oblivian and I sold the remains before making a move. But it had such better hiway manners than any CJ Jeep, early Scout, or other compact 4wd and got me 21mpg on hiway. I wouldnt want the earlier 170 straight six, nor the V8. Nor the automagic tranny. But you wont find a cheap early Bronco unless its a total basket case with rusted out body. People have bought up any with decent body, slapped some paint on them, stuck a V8 in them if they originally had a six and priced them to the moon.

Oh that brings up another consideration, these vehicles tended to have front drum brakes. Dont think the early Broncos had disk brakes until last couple years of their production in 76-77. Not sure when Jeep CJ started offering disks but assume simular time period. Course they all can all be converted, but more work. Front drum brakes if you arent aware really suck in modern traffic.

[Curtis B]

Check the body mounts for rust also, that also is a common rust point. The floorpans also were one of the first to rust. Someone mentioned the quadratrac, I can't remember if it was put in pre 76', but if you find one they are a great transfercase. They do make an aftermarket selector that is operated by vacume, to turn the 4 wheel off (the quadratrac was full time 4-wheel), which saves a ton on front end parts and gas. The great thing about the older jeeps, is the amount of parts available. You can install just about any engine, trans, axle, and transfercase, and everything else, body, wiring etc. I can't talk much about the engines, since I usually put in V-8's. Another week point some say was the model 20 rear end, but I never did have a problem.

[mightybooboo]

More great comments,thank you. Problem with the American made around here is all you find is totally worn out junk....run em into the ground then junk em pretty much.At least with Jeep its possible to find some nice units with lots of rebuilding/restoration done on them.

Example,Mrs looked at bronco a bit back,all that was wrong with it was it leaked oil,engine was tired,needed a radiator,axles leaked and needed front end work. 4,500 bucks,no thanks.

[Ky-Jeeper]

I wouldn't rule out 87-95 YJ Wranglers. Unlike CJ's, YJ's have gavinized bodys. 4.0 with ax15 is a good combo. Axles in all Jeeps are fine for street use and "light" off roading. Change all fluids in what ever you buy. If you find a CJ that gets 20mpg buy it.


My Tj has a full locker in the rear 44. It is a hand full on ice and snow slush. Trac-lok or Trutrack for highway use works well.

[Qhorseman]

I have a 73 CJ5, its had an engine and tranny swap to a 4.3 chevy and a TH350 trans. Been a good combo for me. I threw the Fuel injection in the trash and switched it to a carb.

[mightybooboo]

Originally Posted by Ky-Jeeper

I wouldn't rule out 87-95 YJ Wranglers. Unlike CJ's, YJ's have gavinized bodys. 4.0 with ax15 is a good combo. Axles in all Jeeps are fine for street use and "light" off roading. Change all fluids in what ever you buy. If you find a CJ that gets 20mpg buy it.


My Tj has a full locker in the rear 44. It is a hand full on ice and snow slush. Trac-lok or Trutrack for highway use works well.

Must be smog exempt,hence 1975 or earlier.

[Wis Bang 2]

Thru College I dove a '62 Willys CJ5 that had a Kelly 'All Steel' cab & a Westin 6' hydraulic plow, the pump rode side saddle atop the generator & a solid rod protruded out under the dash on the other side of the central instrument housing.

Loaded for the semester, Easton to Scranton [around 75 miles], mostly uphill, I'd burn 3/4 of a 10 gal tank. Same load at the end of the semester going home used 1/4th tank.

All the road driving meant a few engine repairs over my 4 years. I had the F head 4cyl. The exhaust valves were in the block [like the flathead] and the intakes were in the head, the little rocker cover ran down one side of the head and the carb bolted directly onto the other...it had 14" long connecting rods so it made gobs of torque. The draw back was the three speed trans.

The drum brakes were all manually adjusted, almost needed to be done daily!

I only ever got it totally stuck once!

Loaded w/ 400 pounds of hot dogs I towed a damaged ford 8n w/ woods 3 point cutter out of the way at an event. That jeep did alot of stuff!

[sandc]

Unfortunately the cj7 started in '76 or I would suggest that for the extra wheelbase and interior space. The thing to remember on a jeep is that almost everything is interchangeable. I would avoid the older buick engines solely based on the 258 parts being readily available everywhere like a small block chevy. Given your parameters, I would look for an early to mid 70's cj5. Mainly because I would want the open knuckle front axle for turning radius as well as dease of maintenance. If the price is right and you are mechanically inclined at all, you can pick up a stock set of axles from someone building a crawler for next to nothing. I would avoid an auto tranny just because a stick is less maintenance and less heat. Some of them came with the amc 20 for a rear axle. Very strong center section, but two piece outer axles. Easy swap.

Oh yeah, some of the early wags came with the 258 as well...

You can look at www.pirate4x4.com for lots of tech help and a large classifieds section. Be forewarned, that the language and attitudes can get annoying but there is a lot of tech on the site plus the classifieds might help you out.

[mightybooboo]

Sand,I think you are spot on ,and I heard the same comment about Pirate elswhere,LOL!

Seems the 258 with t-18 should be the rig.Also finding they are kinda rare actually,esp in good shape.

I liked these 2,but the 9,500 is a bit out of range (my range that is)
http://fresno.craigslist.org/cto/2197518847.html

This looks real good,but a good 1000 miles away from me,too far to go looking but I think thats just what we need.
http://susanville.craigslist.org/rvs/2214417556.html

Finally the price is right but not the drivetrain I want,what do you folks think of it,its close by
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/2189970124.html


What say you folks

[Ky-Jeeper]

Is the presmog preference strictly a cost issue? A t-18 tranny coupled with the Dana 300 transfer case is almost bullet proof.

Originally Posted by mightybooboo

Must be smog exempt,hence 1975 or earlier.

[fordy]

Originally Posted by mightybooboo

OK,car died and repair is about 5 grand....time to look for a pre smog 4x4 Jeep.Meaning 1975 and earlier in California. Tell me about engines,I like straight 6 or 4,mileage.Really would prefer no V shaped engines but tell me about those too in Jeeps.

You know,the whole story.Problem child Gremlins.ANYTHING.....Willeys,you name it!

Oh,landcruiser,FJ40 stories too.No Ford/chevy/dodge models.

Thanks!

.....................Might also want to look into old International Scout , they came with a 304 , and a 394(?) V8's . They also came with 2-4 speed manual tranny's , A T18 and a T19 , both are tough , and have a granny low , the T19 is fully synchronized in all gears which means you don't have too come too a complete stop too go into granny low(1st gear) .
...................The best thing you can do for an older jeep is too install a Ford 9 inch rear axle and a dana 44 heavy duty front axle off of a 1970's ford f250 for the front . Also , the Chevy SM 465 manual tranny is a big , tough 4 speed with a granny low , Unsynchronized ! I'd drop a chevy 350\SM 465 into a CJ6 and were it me . My 1986 CJ 6 had a 350\SM 465 and was conservatively rated at 450HP , .......it was Very quick !
....................The NP 435 (new process) 4speed is also an excellent 4 speed tranny and as strong as the T18 , T19 , and SM 465 , it came in both f250's and Dodges made in the late 1960s , up thru mid 1980's ! You can tell an NP 435 because it will have an Aluminumn Top cover where the shifter is attached . , fordy