We're looking at getting a medium sized SUV for a farm vehicle to replace our 2wd Chuckwagon. Youngest daughter has health issues that make it difficult to get around sometimes so we bought a Brister Chuckwagon to haul feed and hay around. Now that we're moving, we have discovered that the locals have to use chains for their 4wd Kubota tractors during the winter. Obviously, if that's the case a 2wd utility vehicle with a belt driven transaxle might not stand much of a chance (think golf cart in the snow).
So we first looked at 4wd UTV's but no matter the brand, they're expensive for what you get! We've got enough land and access roads to get a small to midsize SUV around the farm for chores so we're thinking an older vehicle might be better than a UTV.
We're calling a farm vehicle so we can limit access as needed (i.e. bad grades, etc) but this would probably also be the vehicle our 16yo DD learns on and occasionally drives to school.
At this point, we've narrowed it down to a '98 Olds Bravada (AWD) or a '97 Ford Explorer (4WD). Based on the primary use of farm utility vehicle, which would everyone recommend? I know the "experts" say AWD is worthless off road but we're not necessarily going muddin' or rock crawling, just across a pasture occaisionally. Would AWD work or do we need to stick with 4WD?
Thanks in advance,
Mike
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke
Keeping it together with prayer and the "Handyman's secret weapon" - duct tape!
AWD will work, but 4wd will be better. Like you've speculated, a lot has to do with how hard you're going to be off roading. If it's a case of across a grass field when it has rained, awd will do just fine. If that same field happens to be a mud bog, 4wd would do much better.
Do be realistic about your needs. Your 100% needs. You're looking at buying a vehicle to get the job done. Make sure it can do the whole job, not just most of the job. If you can forsee even the possibilities of ever needing to get down there with feed through a mud and snow bog, then buy a vehicle capable of doing just that.
Fwiw, I started out with a 2wd truck on my place. I tried to make it work. Even changed the differential to a locking type. But, fact is, I need 4wd, for about 1,000 feet per year. And for those few feet, only 4wd will do. And even at that, there have been a few times the 4x4 has sat down by the creek there, waiting until things either dried up or froze before it was able to come back up the ~100 feet to the house.
You dont really want something with a brain that tries to outguess you as to making decisions when to shift, when to engage hubs, etc. You want something simple and everything manual, manual transmission, manual hubs, manual shifting transfer case. The simpler, the better.
AWD not even a consideration in vehicle like you are looking for.
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"What would you do with a brain if you had one?" -Dorothy
"Well, then ignore what I have to say and go with what works for you." -Eliot Coleman
Bravadas were nice vehicles. I knew a guy w/ one and at the end of the summer he backed down the river bank to pull his dock. Sitting on the sand the AWD and traction control spun one wheel at a time until all 4 were dug in to the hubs...his buddy w/ a tahoe used 4X4 to pull him AND the dock out...
I drive my current 4X4s like I did my old '62 Willys Jeep. Use 4X2 until you need 4X4 and then used it to get out and shift back to 4X2........
I have 4wd,manual transfer case with a center disconnect of front axle sides so I dont even have to get out and mess with the locking Hubs.With posi in rear its dang good.No electronics or vacuum system,just straight mechanical connections.
Not 4 wheel axle diffs locked good,but darn good anyhow.
I do have an auto trans,but I also have a wife and ice and while auto wont last as long,wife may last longer with it.Sticks arent that great in ice at all.
1997 Dodge 3/4 ton extended cab Cummins Turbo Diesel.The LAST of the mechanical diesel engines,the last of only 2 years of the manual center disconnect front axle (no stinking manual hubs locking in weather!)the last year before state testing required.And more states are going to diesel testing.
AWD,thats for ON road warriors in moderate conditions,why get a less effective system when the day will come when you want the REAL traction to get out of that mud? I say,hope for the best,plan for the worst....thats real 4WD in that mindset.
Don't go with the bravada. They had issues with the AWD. But, instead go with a CHevy blazer or GMC Jimmy. They are the 2 other same body style as the bravada. But, they have a true 4 wd. From years of running the S10 platform trucks and owning a 1999 blazer. they are very good to get around with in the winter. Also with the 4.3 V6 they have plenty of power to get around the farm in tough slow conditions. Plus they get 17 to 20 mpg.
Bob
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the advice. We couldn't afford to make a mistake and I knew someone here (or several) would have the info we needed. You didn't disappoint!
Take Care,
Mike
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -- Edmund Burke
Keeping it together with prayer and the "Handyman's secret weapon" - duct tape!
I second the idea of looking at a S10 Blazer or S15 Jimmy. I like the ones from 93 or 92 and earlier because of the computer setup and fuel system. The 4.3 is good for way over 200,000 miles. A friend had one with close to 280,000 miles and it never used oil between changes. As mentioned you can get decent mileage.
I generally go most places in 2WD. Mine came with rear end limited slip which makes a difference. I only use 4WD high to cross the creek and climb the sand bank. I may have to use 4WD low in the mud hole at the end of the bottom. I also run agressive mud tires for the soft conditions.
I like the cartridge front wheel bearings that stand up to twice daily creek crossings. With a four door model and the rear seat dropped down I've hauled lots of stuff including a flail mower for my tractor.
My beef with Chev blazers and Jimmys is the intake gasket but once changed they're nice little trucks. We have one and while I think its small my wife likes it. We had a GMC Safari AWD, not sure we ever did much off road farm work but it was a tank where ever it went, ate gas like a tank too. Luv'd it but the Jimmy is a bit more economical.
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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup........
For this type of use where you would be doing offroad (pasture, etc) driving in mud or snow, go with a true 4wd vehicle. One with a locking rear diff would help too, but I'm not sure you'll find that in an explorer size vehicle.
This is what I use around the farm and I drive it to work in bad weather.
The flat bed really comes in handy for wood, hay, you name it.
If you need 4x4, you have to have it.
I have highway tires on for the MPG so I can use it for my 80 mile daily work commute.
Not sure how much work I would get out of an SUV, but to each his own.
Bought it for my youngest son to drive when he was in high school, he is serving in Iraq now, so it is mine again.
(I like a truck for a teenager, if they get together in a group, they will drive something else.)
I LOVE my Explorer for it's 4wd in the snow. Our place gets huge drifts and turns to slush, then a mud bog, and i've never been even close to stuck in my truck. Generally i dont even switch it to 4high anyways because it has the automatic 4wd thing. If it starts slipping it puts itself in 4high. It's awesome! It amazes me how quick it senses the slipping too. There's even been many times just driving around town that other people had trouble getting out of a driveway and onto the road but mine just cruises right through it!
Another thought. The vehicle we use as a "ranch truck" is a '91 Jeep Wrangler. I dont know if that's big enough for what you need (we took the backseat of ours out and modified it so it has a little "bed", so only two people can ride in seats) but that thing will go anywhere do anything. If i didn't have a herd of kids, that would be my main vehicle!
one thing to think about if you have a AWD [and i have had one dedicated AWD and the 98 expedition has a choice] if you are on icy roads the wheels have to slip, and the computer has to sense it before the AWD engages..... it has caused more than one accident around these pars due to the way the roads can be..... especially turning off the main highway onto a side road.... Then too, the AWD has to keep the tires nearly identical, if the air in one gets low the computer kicks in and out and there goes a couple grand getting a new one of those, my mother has a 2002 exploder with a VERY touchy computer, and has to have tires replaced well before they get anywhere near worn off [I now have so many sets of utility trailer tires it aint funny] of course not all those vehicles will react the same.....
If you have a choice to get a manual shift for the 4x4 engaging i suggest that be the best, and i still prefer getting out and locking in the hubs my self and staying away from auto hubs, but even those are getting harder to find on a rig.
William
Idaho
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Upon the plains of hesitation bleach the bones of countless millions, who when on the dawn of victory paused to rest, and there resting died.
- John Dretschmer
This is what I use around the farm and I drive it to work in bad weather.
The flat bed really comes in handy for wood, hay, you name it.
If you need 4x4, you have to have it.
I have highway tires on for the MPG so I can use it for my 80 mile daily work commute.
Not sure how much work I would get out of an SUV, but to each his own.
Bought it for my youngest son to drive when he was in high school, he is serving in Iraq now, so it is mine again.
(I like a truck for a teenager, if they get together in a group, they will drive something else.)
I would add considering a used 4runner with a rear diff lock option if you can find one. Very good 4x4 SUV and if the going gets tough hitting the diff lock button on the dash locking the rear differential helps a 4x4 like nothing else.
You could likely pick up a locking rear diff from salvage yard and stick it under a pickup like the one above.
Why a used Toyota truck? These guys figured out why I have driven them since the 80's.
I personally spun one at 100mph a 360 before it went flipping end over end and side over side on a freeway at 3am until it came to rest with me inside it, unharmed, and after crawling out and getting some young dudes passing by to help me flip it back on it's wheels, fired it up and drove it 40 miles home.. In one of my stupider much younger moments in life.
I will say my old '67 ford pickup was just as tough though.
one thing to think about if you have a AWD [and i have had one dedicated AWD and the 98 expedition has a choice] if you are on icy roads the wheels have to slip, and the computer has to sense it before the AWD engages..... it has caused more than one accident around these pars due to the way the roads can be..... especially turning off the main highway onto a side road.... Then too, the AWD has to keep the tires nearly identical, if the air in one gets low the computer kicks in and out and there goes a couple grand getting a new one of those, my mother has a 2002 exploder with a VERY touchy computer, and has to have tires replaced well before they get anywhere near worn off [I now have so many sets of utility trailer tires it aint funny] of course not all those vehicles will react the same.....
If you have a choice to get a manual shift for the 4x4 engaging i suggest that be the best, and i still prefer getting out and locking in the hubs my self and staying away from auto hubs, but even those are getting harder to find on a rig.
William
Idaho
I dont know if some of the "Exploders" have full time AWD, but mine has the automatic 4WD, so it kicks in if it starts to slip. Here in SE Idaho, i haven't had a problem with it taking too long to kick in when tires start to slip. In fact, i've TRIED to get it to brake loose in an icy parking lot on more than one occasion and it just wont do it.It actually surprises me how fast it kicks in and out. Dang thing is no fun sometimes! Lol! I've never had a problem with tire pressure problems, or tires wearing low and setting off sensors. In fact, i KNOW my tires are all wonky and down to nothing right now and it hasn't given me any trouble!
Not too many own a bravada they simply cost too much I DO, I 'didn't read the other responses, so hope you didn't buy yet, I own a 98 bravada smart track and it has been the best 4x4 vehicle I've ever had for going in slick or snow or mud conditions, hands down, will go over anything. Now it is also the most expensive to get repaired anytime anything happens its nearly always $1500 bucks, it has a special brain box computer for each separate processing action, like the smart trac drive, the transmission, the climate control, everything, it will $1500 or $2000 you to death when it starts breaking down, on the other hand mine has been fairly hardy, I believe I would look to see if the Blazer has the same smart trac drive and if so i'd get one of them they are for more than bravadas, and blazer retain a higher resale value, tho not much. But if the ability to go and go now is your need then I'd get the bravada, it will go where other vehicles only dream of going and i've been in 4x4s since 1970, good luck and best wishes, ray
AWD is not 4WD and the onboard traction computer will go nuts trying to apportion the load on the front chains to the rear tires without chains,or vice versa.
