Welder recommendations for occasional use?

[DJ in WA]

I haven't welded since high school shop class with an arc welder many years ago. My dad was a professional welder mostly with arc.

My current interests are in welding some metal reinforced racks for a trailer, welding some more stake pockets on the sides, making some metal reinforced feeders, welding some hooks on a tractor bucket, muffler tailpipe, etc.

I'm assuming most welding would be 1/4 inch or less.

From reading, sounds like if you had one welder, it would be a wire feed? I have 230V power available.

Any ideas on how much umph I'd need, brands, models and roughly how much to spend?

[CrashTestRanch]

Portable for taking out to the field or Stationary in the shop?

How much you got for a budget?

Do you want Miller or the "other" brand? LOL

[DJ in WA]

Originally Posted by CrashTestRanch

Portable for taking out to the field or Stationary in the shop?

How much you got for a budget?

Do you want Miller or the "other" brand? LOL

Stationary in the shop.

Budget - I was wondering if a few hundred to 500 would get you something pretty good.

As far as brands, I don't know. I've heard Lincoln is a big name. Local farm supply sells Hobart.

Are Millers expensive for frequent professional use?

[CrashTestRanch]

I've used Lincoln, Miller, Hobart, AirCo, and a dozen other brands. Depending on the job site/shop I was at, didn't really matter which was used, just had to tweak settings to get the job done, some were better than others depending on the metal I was welding, ie steel, aluminum, stainless, exotics, etc. because of design uses of the machine.

BUT:

Cheap off brand welders have a tendency to smoke, burn up or catch fire.

A small wire feed that has the option for gas or flux is a good all around duty welder. And with an aluminum spool gun rig, you can make some of these weld aluminum.

Hobart Wire Feed

Miller Wire Feed

Lincoln Wire Feed

[Bret4207]

I've used wire feed in the past. I have to say for the welding I do (farm repair and fabrication) I'm perfectly satisfied with my 2 free 220 volt stick welders. While DC would be a dded plus I've used it before and don't miss it-yet. My dream is to have a Lincoln Ranger with all the bells and whistles. For now my ancient Forney (FIL's) and Birdsell (Fathers) do me fine. Plus I just got my 25KW pto alternator back and my electrical shop assures me I can run the welder with that alternator in the field with zero issues. Field repairs, here I come.

Wire feed is faster and saves some time, but the consumables are quite expensive compared to a simple stick welder.

[SamEwing]

We had a flood a couple years back and lost most of our gear.
Try Cyberweld, you can get quality welding equipment from them for less than many places sell off-brands. If you want to go new.
The prices and service we got from Cyberweld was fantastic!
Replaced all our gear and added many new pieces for way under the expected pricing.
http://store.cyberweld.com/
If you don't go Cyberweld, use their website for specs and pricing comparison for other places.

For occasional usage Mig is the most popular. Remember though, AC and a high-frequency generator are needed to do perfect aluminum welding. It can be done without but will not pass inspection.
If you are doing sheet metal or tubing work, a Tig is the best performer.
Mig leaves a larger, more brittle bead than Tig. If doing body work the Tig joint can be hammered to shape without cracking. Not so with Mig.

The type welding you describe can be accomplished with a basic mig set-up. Try not to go below a 180 amp welder. Preferably not below 200 amp.
Duty Cycle should not be below 60% @ 230 volts if serious welding is to be done. Stay away from welders with a duty cycle below 30% at 230 volts. You will be disappointed if you begin to weld more frequently. Not to mention an expensive investment when it fails.

The price range you are requiring will leave only the used equipment option.
Many great used welders are available at low prices.
Miller is arguably the top runner, some Lincolns are great pieces. Don't be afraid of a Hobart. When Chrysler in Belvidere retooled back in 1986, they scrapped all their Hobart gear. I bought a mammoth portion of the equipment and was delighted with the amount of life left in it. My friend is still welding with one of the migs we got back then.

If you run across an old Lincoln SP200, let me know. I bought one back in 1983. It survived the flood and has since 1983 run out thousands of miles of wire and is still operating as good as a new unit.

Let us know what you find out there, it will be interesting.

[Beeman]

Best deal is a Hobart mig. I'd go 220v like a 175 model. Best deals at TSC or Northern. Hobart and Miller are owned by the same company, they're not the same welders but Hobarts are good. Stay away from box store Lincoln's as they are not the same as the Lincoln's you buy at a welding supply.

[HermitJohn]

Consumables for stick welders have skyrocketed too. Want a real shock, go price some nickle rod.... But I agree, an old 220V buzz box stick welder is most bang for the buck for general farm repairs if you are wired for it. Can easily weld anything from 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch without much problem. Can weld thinner if really ugly isnt a problem, can weld thicker with bevelling and multiple passes. Copper core buzz box better, but lot heavier. The old aluminum wound Miller Thunderbolt I gave $25 for used, nearly 20 years ago, still going strong and its the welder that gets used the most cause its always handy.

They are too expensive for what they want full retail, but the Zena portable welders are nice. I've used one. Its a DC stick welder looks like an old GM alternator though way outperform any homemade alternator welder I've seen. I'd suggest you want at least a 16hp engine for full output. Can use it with as low as 11hp if you dont need full output. Can also mount it on your car, truck, or tractor and of course then no want of horsepower though running those to weld kinda sucks the gasoline.

As to mig, they are a necessary evil, cause they weld sheet metal far better than any stick welder ever could. And I find anymore that I am wanting to weld sheet metal lot more than I would have ever thought. Recently welded up a new exhaust system for my Festiva out of 1.5 inch EMT conduit for like $14 in materials, new factory exhaust without muffler well over a $100. Those little jobs will pay for a welder fast. I wouldnt even begin to try and weld up an exhaust system with a stick welder unless absolutely desperate.

I had an old 220V Harbor Freight Chicago Electric mig for about 10 years that I hated. After bunch research, I finally bought a Real Gear 120V mig. Its a clone of the Lincoln and all major consumable parts can be replaced with Lincoln parts. I couldnt find any negative comments or bad experiences from ANYBODY WHO HAD ACTUALLY USED ONE. Just from those that insist Lincoln and Miller/Hobart are only brands out there and everything else will self destruct in 5 minutes and kill half the worlds population in the process. Its far more pleasant to use than Harbor Freight mig. So far I've just used it with flux core wire but it does pretty good job. And its about $100 cheaper than the Hobart on sale. I have no regrets buying it so far. I still think these 120V migs are way overpriced for what they are, but things are as they are and you want to stay away from any with a real low price and without a stellar reputation. After lot of looking, googling, and reading, I didnt really find any other 120V mig outside of Lincoln/Miller/Hobart that people werent rather disappointed in. Northern sells their store brand 120V mig (Northern Industrial brand?) that gets pretty good reviews, but you can come awfully close to its price with a Hobart on deep discount sale. The Hobart is better welder I think. The RealGear mig is $100 cheaper than that and so far I would put it up against a Hobart or a Lincoln. It should compare to a Lincoln since its a Lincoln clone.

[DJ in WA]

Thanks for the ideas. Gives me a general track to follow. I'm thinking I might save a little longer and spend more than what I was thinking. If it's like the tractor I got, I didn't think I'd have much use for it, but now the wife is giving me this and that project. Maybe I'll buy her a welder for Christmas.

Sounds like I ought to have more power than cheaper migs get you. I saw a debate at the link below between the Hobart 187 (up to 185 amp) and the Miller 180. Sounds like the Hobart is plenty good. Maybe I can also check out the one you mentioned, HJ.

http://hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/sh...ht=hh187+mm180

[CrashTestRanch]

DJ in WA,

You can also talk with reps about floor models and displays, especially SHOW models. You can get these pretty reasonably, some with "extras", like tanks, spool guns, upgraded torches and lines, etc..

[DJ in WA]

So Northern Tool has the HH187 (no longer a 175) for $670 and free shipping.

Local farm store has it for $700 plus 8% sales tax. Guy there suggested I could do okay with the 120Volt HH140 (140 amp). Supposedly does up to 1/4 inch. He said just do more passes if do thicker stuff. And he said I could plug it in anywhere. And it is $50 off at $450.

I'm thinking if I have to live with it for decades, a couple hundred up front doesn't make much difference. I guess it just depends on what I'll use it for, which I don't really know for sure the future. Please tell me when I would be disappointed in a 120 volt, lower amp, vs higher.

If I use it every week or two on stuff 1/8 inch, would it matter?

[CrashTestRanch]

110 vs 220 is like night and day. My OPINION for what is worth

220 gives you the choice of thick AND thin welding.

I had a 110v Miller, it did fine for my smaller, thin metal jobs, but there was NO way it would do the thicker metals without some serious pre-heating, duty-cycle issues, etc.,which amounts to MORE money outta my pocket for an Oxy/Act setup + gas and consumables.

You already have the 220v line. It's worth it in the long term. Again MY OPINION for what is worth

Just a little background on my welding experience, I'm no expert, but still hold my DoD/Aerospace certs in GMAW/GTAW. Worked on and built parts for the MRAP, M1 Abrams, up-armored the HMMWV (thru BAE Systems), built robotic dies and molds for the plastics industry, built cattle guards/gates/fencing/panels, fencing for prisons and our national border, "art" fencing for our airport, traffic light poles and gas meter/flow cages (thru a local fab shop), plus I build fire pits, yard/garden "art" (thru my own Co.). Not to mention a few "private" bridges out in the middle or nowhere for folks with large acreage to get across washes and such.

[HermitJohn]

Well, duh, no 120V welder is going to do heavy duty stuff, or if it does, its going to be slow going with multiple passes and such. Up to you what you want, but I like arc welder for heavy stuff anyway, get a good 120V mig for light stuff and a cheap used 220V buzz box arc welder for heavier stuff. Use the mig for anything under 1/8 inch and the arc welder for anything over. The 120V is very portable.

If you are going into welding buisiness, then thats different. There are all kind of amazing fancy equipment if you have money to burn or can depreciate the expense. But for occasional home use, new expensive equipment tends not to be great investment.

Thats where you get the bargain, some guy bought a new top of line welder 20 years ago and used it maybe 10 times in those 20 years.... Dont be that guy.

[CrashTestRanch]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Thats where you get the bargain, some guy bought a new top of line welder 20 years ago and used it maybe 10 times in those 20 years.... Dont be that guy.

Agreed, Craigslist, Backpage, Craiglook all have "USED" welders that have very low hours bought originally by "that guy".

[DJ in WA]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

Well, duh, no 120V welder is going to do heavy duty stuff, or if it does, its going to be slow going with multiple passes and such. Up to you what you want, but I like arc welder for heavy stuff anyway, get a good 120V mig for light stuff and a cheap used 220V buzz box arc welder for heavier stuff. Use the mig for anything under 1/8 inch and the arc welder for anything over. The 120V is very portable.

I kind of like this thinking. Don't know why I didn't think of Craigslist, but here's some stuff around here like you mentioned that hasn't been used much. What do you think of these?

http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/1863223972.html

http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/1855459404.html

[Joel_BC]

I'm going to add something to the discussion that no one has decided to say - so take it for what that's worth.

I like my oxy-acetylene gas-welding set-up. Victor brand, medium duty (full-size handle). Bought the rig at an estate sale for $150, including 20-foot hoses, many welding and brazing tips, a cutting-torch head, about 30 small-gauge mild-steel filler rods, and a bottle cart... all of it in good shape.

Why do I like it? Oxy-acetylene equipment is very versatile, being preferred for some sorts of "artsy" iron or steel welding, and it lends itself to brazing, braze-welding, metal heating (for annealing or tempering, bending or forming). Also, the loosening of really stubborn corroded nuts and bolts. And, with the cutting head, O/A is an ever-popular means for the cutting of many types of steel.

I welding up to and including 1/4" steel - but I do not like to do long beads on 1/4" with the O/A equipment.

But if you could get a good deal on a used old buzz box (for the thicker-stock welding), and therefore had a bit of money left for welding equipment, maybe you could find a deal as good as the one I got on my oxy-fuel equipment.

[CrashTestRanch]

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

http://spokane.craigslist.org/tls/1855459404.html

"...purchased in 09 has been used twice for about 5min..."

This is "that guy", which is mentioned in HermitJohn's post.

Both welders seem to be a good deal. But again, one is 110 wire feed the other 220 stick only.

Personal opinion here:

Get a 220 wire feed, some of the newer units can/do stick weld too. Just need to get a stick setup for them, as most will not come with it.

[taylorlambert]

I bought a Miller Thunderbolt AC/DC stick welder new when I was 14, Im 30 now. I ve built loaders, buckets, blades, trailers, and several things from 14 gauge tubing to 1inch plate with beveleing. . I have one old Millermatic 35 wire welder I rarely use and am taking it to work for use there. Then I have a big 3 phase Miller power unit for gouging and heavy welding. Then I have a Miller Bobcat 250 portable welder on the truck. It and the Thunderbolt get used the most.

Miller bought out Hobart a few years ago and some of the models are the same. When I buy new machinery I go to 4 dffewrent suppliers and hint Ive been looking. The salesmen have alot of wiggle room on machines and consumables. I drive 45 miles one way to get my argon at another dealer because they are 50 percent cheaper than the local store.

[longrider]

There are more of these sitten in Barns and workshops than any other welder. I bought one when I graduated Lincoln Electric welding school back in 04. I highly recommend this welder- it is the big brother to the AC 250 yoiu can buy in lowes or home depot.

You can weld anything with this box. and will last three lifetimes.



http://http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=2494