looking for a used truck

[travis91]

well im in northern Virginia staying with family for a while. and my grandma whom im living with insists that i need a vechile and we are working on finding a truck. i have found a really nice and clean 1989 ford F250 and it has a 302 and a 5spd transmission it is 4x4. it has a newer jasper motor. 39k on the motor 201k on the truck. any one have any expertise on this set up? its gonna be a daily driver but i need the hauling and towing ability so im looking at F150s and this one came up.

[Beeman]

It will burn a lot of gas and I'm no fan of manual trans especially with a lot of miles.

[PhilJohnson]

Every fuel injected 302 I drove in a 4x4 truck was a dog. They all had automatics so perhaps a manual would help out in the power department. If it was me I'd go with a diesel or a 300 six. I actually prefer the 73-79 Fords over the 80-91 trucks. I think the older ones were better built, got better mileage, and are more reliable. I've had a few and have had nothing but good luck.

[HermitJohn]

I'd go for 300-6 if its geared right. Or 351-8 if you are going to tow. Or 460 if you are really, really going to tow though I am no big fan of the 460. 302 fine in a F150 for a 2wd people mover. Diesel only if you are going to put lot miles on the truck.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Beeman

...I'm no fan of manual trans especially with a lot of miles.

Are you a fan of high mile automatic transmissions? I'm not as they are far more likely to leave you parked alongside the road and cost a pretty penny to fix. A bad manual transmission should be replaceable via a junkyard. This should be the heavy duty 5spd in bigger trucks and if it drives ok and has ok fluid level, it should be ok. The light duty 5spd used in the half ton is much less desirable. It was geared kinda weird and prone to leaks. On 3/4 ton not sure if they used the heavy duty 5spd in both the light duty F250 and the heavy duty F250. Why in world they need to play stupid marketing games with a "light duty" and a "heavy duty" F250 in first place is beyond me. Probably were just following the GM lead like they have in North American market for some time.

[Beeman]

Auto trans are just as easily, actually easier, replaced with a junk yard unit and many times cheaper. The manual trans built in the last 25 years aren't the cast iron anvils of yesterday. Most with OD like a 5 spd. are notoriously weak especially if used to tow. Now the manual trans also has a clutch, price one lately? Then there's the ingenious hydraulic master and slave cyls, notorious to go bad and not easy to replace.

[PhilJohnson]

Originally Posted by Beeman

Auto trans are just as easily, actually easier, replaced with a junk yard unit and many times cheaper. The manual trans built in the last 25 years aren't the cast iron anvils of yesterday. Most with OD like a 5 spd. are notoriously weak especially if used to tow. Now the manual trans also has a clutch, price one lately? Then there's the ingenious hydraulic master and slave cyls, notorious to go bad and not easy to replace.

The 5 speed manual transmissions put in half ton trucks for the past 20 years stink. But you could still get the heavy duty NP-435 4 speed in an early 90s Ford half-ton. Once one jumps into 3/4 tons and up I'd say the manual transmissions are just as well built as the anvils of yesteryear. Also not all manuals have the slave cylinder inside the bellhousing. The ones that mount outside the transmission are pretty easy to replace. Having replaced both automatics and manual transmissions in various trucks I'd say an automatic is almost always easier. There is less to hook up and no splines to align. That said I prefer manual transmissions. I like the control and the ability to still start my truck even if the starter goes bad.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by Beeman

Auto trans are just as easily, actually easier, replaced with a junk yard unit and many times cheaper. The manual trans built in the last 25 years aren't the cast iron anvils of yesterday. Most with OD like a 5 spd. are notoriously weak especially if used to tow. Now the manual trans also has a clutch, price one lately? Then there's the ingenious hydraulic master and slave cyls, notorious to go bad and not easy to replace.

I can tell pretty quick after installing a used manual tranny if its any good. Cant do that with an automatic. Automatics tend not to give lot symptoms until they leave you stranded. So unless junkyard owners have become scrupulously honest the last few years, I might have hard time believing their stories on how it was out of a car only driven on Sundays by little old lady...

Clutches tend not to give out all at once, though hydraulic linkages can. And no, dont think much of those combo slave/throwout bearing deals. All mine are external at this point. If I get one of those internal ones, when it gives out I will do everything I possibly can to try and re-engineer it to external. cutting a hole in bellhousing and making a pivot and arm arent that hard. Making a sleeve around the input shaft for throwout bearing to slide on is the real tricky part, but I dont think its impossible. No mechanic is ever going to re-engineer something like that but then I'm old with lot of time on my hands.... so for my own use, I would. As to the stupid plastic master cylinders and such. The answer is aftermarket. When I put the 300 in my Ranger, I used Wilwood master and slave for the clutch. Just incredibly easy to bleed and all metal. There just wasnt any question of using the clutch linkage from the little V6, it was one of those internal combo things and the master was plastic mounted at a weird angle. Ford even used plastic hose to connect them with some proprietary connectors. Total obnoxious junk.

Oh cant think of the name of the 5 spds used in 90s 3/4 ton and 1 tons, but it was indeed very heavy duty. About the equivalent of an old granny 4spd with an overdrive added. The half ton Fords had some light duty Mazda made thing that as I said was geared weird and it tended to develop lot leaks. If you get one that hasnt started self destructing and install new seals to keep it from leaking, its not horrible transmission.... in a half ton people hauler. I wouldnt try to tow anything big with it.

Yep clutch parts arent $10 for a rebuilt disk and $15 for a rebuilt pressure plate anymore. Costs me about $100 to buy the parts to do an old school type clutch if I shop around. Probably another $100 to $150 on top of that for one of the new age internal slave/throwout combos. The big cost is what shops charge for labor. And lot newer stuff is so obnoxious to work on, that I couldnt fault them too much on what they charge. My anger is at the manufacturers for designing and selling such a monstrosity. They save few pennies in labor on assembly line, but us customers have to pay for their savings over and over again for the life of the vehicle.

[mightybooboo]

HJohn,I didnt know the 302 is a dog in a truck,but I guess it makes sense.I hauled in a chevy 350 and it was seriously lacking in power.

As for diesel,beyond the longevity and being a new to diesel owner I love the brute torque on that thing,and the solid feel of it growling at low RPM's down the road.No gasser can give that feeling of solidness. I will never go back to a gasser truck,and hopefully will be all diesel in all future purchases.

There are reasons that serious trucks and professional drivers are diesel,its the best IC motor there is IMO.

Better built,better efficiency,better lifespan.Though to get a strong mechanical one it is a noisy puppy for sure.

[mightybooboo]

As for the man vrs auto argument longevity on older ones in my experience was manual cant be beat,but like the changes made to diesels I guess what Im reading is new ones leave much to be desired.So I look at intended uses.

For me its snow and ice,and auto is better/easier IMO.I was surprised how the 4x4 Dodge Cummins long bed extra cab did in the mud too,Bud was amazed too as he has the stick regular cab.

Also safer for wife in those conditions.Have a stroke (Bud)... or break your foot like I did that stick is NOT good to get you to civilization.And it really stinks in stop and go traffic.

So thats part of why I have an auto,usage seems to be a big factor to consider beyond which is better built?

[mightybooboo]

Also love using A/C in a diesel,that motor doesnt feel it at all,sure the rpms drop a few at idle(unlike a gasser where it IS a notable drop),when you power her up it isnt even noticeable.Add that turbo at altitude and you are still pumping out the power unlike an injected gasser,another few reasons why Im diesel from now on.

[travis91]

well im gonna use the truck to haul mulch and top soil in the bed(not commercaily), tow our boats(biggest one weighs 2900lbs dry) and use as a daily driver. i have found a 89 f250 2wd with a 300-6 and a auto matic but idk how that would hold high way speeds

[HermitJohn]

I have a 300-6 in both my F250 4wd and my little Ranger, but both have manual transmissions, 4spd in the F250 and 3spd in the Ranger. Both however are carb engines. So I cant speak to the fuelie versions. I will say the 300-6 does much better with a manual tranny from past experience. The automatics tend to kind sap some of its strength. But my 6000 pound F250 has plenty pep to maintain speed going up hills with the 300-6. But you do notice when something does go wrong. I got away from home once and dang F250 wouldnt go over 45mph. It had no problem going up hills at 45mph, but no power beyond that on flat or hill. So it was a slow crawl home. Well of all things, two spark plugs were faulty though they were nice tan color on tips and looked like they had very little use. New set of plugs and it would go 75 no problem. Wish all things were that easy and cheap to fix.

Only thing I can say is drive any truck you are considering up steepest hiway hill you can before parting with your cash. That will give you an idea what that truck in the state of tune its in can do. Not just the transmission, the axle ratio makes lot difference too. Dont know about the 3/4 tons, but Ford sold some half tons with the six in the 80s with crazy rear end ratios like 2.43 and 2.73 so they could claim super high EPA hiway gas mileage. In their advertising they never mention that this axle ratio also means the thing is a total dog to drive and cant really haul anything beyond maybe couple people. I'm sure the dealers didnt have trucks with these silly axle ratios as demonstrator vehicles. Nobody would ever buy one.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by mightybooboo

Have a stroke (Bud)... or break your foot like I did that stick is NOT good to get you to civilization.And it really stinks in stop and go traffic.

I sprained my ankle couple or three years ago. Only time I really wished for an automatic. Somehow shifting a manual in traffic never bothered me. My brain just goes into autopilot mode and I just dont think much about it. Gear down to a stop, gear up to speed. What drives me crazy is when I occasionally do drive an automatic and out of habit try to push the clutch and shift.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by mightybooboo

HJohn,I didnt know the 302 is a dog in a truck,but I guess it makes sense.I hauled in a chevy 350 and it was seriously lacking in power.

As for diesel,beyond the longevity and being a new to diesel owner I love the brute torque on that thing,and the solid feel of it growling at low RPM's down the road.No gasser can give that feeling of solidness. I will never go back to a gasser truck,and hopefully will be all diesel in all future purchases.

There are reasons that serious trucks and professional drivers are diesel,its the best IC motor there is IMO.

Better built,better efficiency,better lifespan.Though to get a strong mechanical one it is a noisy puppy for sure.

Drive same truck with a 300, a 302, and a 351. With manual tranny, the 300 and 351 will outshine the 302 by good margin at slower speeds. The 302 has about same torque as the 300, but it developes it at much higher rpm. Thus the 300 will out grunt the 302 at lower speeds at lower rpms. But if you want to cruise at 70mph then the 302 will show up with lot more horsepower at the higher rpms and higher speeds.

The 351 doesnt care, it has good torque at low rpm about equivalent to the 300 and lot horsepower at high rpm. Its also a thirsty beast.

The 300 and other old school long stroke gas engines like the Chevy 292 were the poor mans diesel. The car companies no longer make high torque, low speed, long stroke gas engines like that. When the commercial customers switched to diesel, the car companies decided most of their gasoline engine customers wanted high speed, high rpm engines only. Cause everybody wants to accelerate fast in 5mph traffic dont they?

[mightybooboo]

Originally Posted by HermitJohn

The 300 and other old school long stroke gas engines like the Chevy 292 were the poor mans diesel. The car companies no longer make high torque, low speed, long stroke gas engines like that.

Guess that says it all,torque is the answer in a truck that has to work for a living.

Did that 300 ever exist in 4x4 trucks? How does it do in the fuel dept?
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What drives me crazy is when I occasionally do drive an automatic and out of habit try to push the clutch and shift.
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LOL,we did that going from the S10 to the Jetta.

[HermitJohn]

Originally Posted by mightybooboo

Guess that says it all,torque is the answer in a truck that has to work for a living.

Did that 300 ever exist in 4x4 trucks? How does it do in the fuel dept?
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What drives me crazy is when I occasionally do drive an automatic and out of habit try to push the clutch and shift.
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LOL,we did that going from the S10 to the Jetta.

My F250 is a 4wd. It apparently started life as a 6.9L non-turbo diesel. Then some previous owner replaced that with an old 460. That thing was a 4mpg nightmare that I avoided using so much either I needed to get rid of the engine or the whole truck. I replaced it with a 300 and get around 12 to 13mpg with a T19 4spd. It likes the gearing that existed for the diesel. But you could get 300s from factory in 4wd 3/4 ton for sure, not sure about the 300 in later years being offered in one tons. Late 60s and at least through mid 70s they even offered the 300 in smaller dump trucks and other medium duty trucks. And there were industrial versions used in all sorts of things. UPS used to use both 300 and the 292 in their vans.

That was what was so frustrating about that little V6 in the Ranger if you remember that. 2.8L V6 with 5spd and it would get 12 to 14 mpg and it weighed half what the F250 weighs and lot less wind drag. I get around 18 with the 300 in the 4wd Ranger now. And you can actually accelerate UP hills in top gear. I am sure it would do much better with fuel economy if I had an overdrive or something like 3.08 axle ratio. The weight of the Ranger is no real burden on engine at all, but it would rather cruise at around 1800rpm, however due to the gearing it has to go 2400 rpm for 55mph. And gets little on noisy side if you go faster than that. Odd since the F250 isnt that bad at 75. Dont have a tach in the F250 though so not sure what rpm its turning at various speeds.

[mightybooboo]

Travis,whats the latest news on your hunt?

[fordy]

..................I acquired a 2003 Chevy dually , 8.1 with an Allison ! Only had 46,xxx miles and had been very well maintained by the origional owner as he had slowly succumed too Alzheimers and truck had been in the barn for almost a year . Son in law had driven truck regularly . I had maunual trany for my last truck . I have been very impressed with the Ally and it's nice too not have too shift any gears although this particular auto requires some extra engine torque too spin it's rotating mass of internal components . My fuel milage isn't great but my daily driver is a Ranger with a 2.3 that get around 23 to 25 depending upon my foot . I'm saving this truck for future pulling duty's for my 5'ver about 3 years down the road .
...................Anyway , I'd encourage you too take a look at the 2001 , 002 and 003 Chevy's with the 8.1\Allison combo . I don't need 4x4 so I purchased a 2x4 and have been very happy . , fordy

[mightybooboo]

Unless you are in desperate need,take your time,took me a few months to find what I wanted.I shopped on Craigslist as I was able to search for exactly what I was interested in,then could compare price/quality,found pics helpful.Saw tons listed,visited a few, and found 'the deal'.I found mine a good four hours away from home,and drove 5-6 hours to see one that wound up disappointing.But felt it was worth the time to get what I wanted.Spent a ton of time in 'prep',then bought.Anywho,thats what we did.FWIW.

Great deal for ya Fordy,that truck may outlast you!