Dodge Cummins Engines

**clovis** · #1 05/13/10, 08:27 PM

Here is an interesting topic, at least to me:

Dodge Cummins engines.

I met a guy tonight at McDonalds, and struck up a conversation while we watched our kids on the play place.

This guy is a "hands on' field engineer and mechanic for Cummins, which is about 30 miles from where I live, in Columbus, Indiana. Cummins is a HUGE employer for our area. They are a company known for good pay and benefits.

This guy works with test vehicles, test truck and engine programs, and is a real mechanic/engineer, and not some guy in a pin-striped suit and tie.

Anyway, here is some stuff he shared with me:

*Cummins knows of numerous Dodge trucks with their engines with over 1 million miles, and have had no engine rebuilds.

*Cummins builds the beefiest and strongest diesel engines when compared to the Chevy and Ford. He said they have "torn down and mic-ed out the competition's engines, and by far, our's is the strongest".

*The Cummins engine is a $7,000 option on Dodge trucks.

*This particular engine started on the drawing board as a tractor engine.

*For the 2010 model year, Ford is now building their own diesel, the Powerstroke. I sadly already knew this because Navistar, the former builder of the Powerstroke, closed in Indianapolis, costing hundreds and hundreds of jobs.

*For 2010 or 2011, all three manufacturers will use a Bosch fuel rail system.

*Of course, the Cummins engine is built in the US, at their Walesboro, Indiana plant.

*Cummins contracts with a certain truck owners to test, check and study how their engines are performing in the real world, under real world conditions.

*One of the people they contract with owns a 2007 Dodge Cummins Diesel, and it already has over 500,000 miles on it, even though it is less than 3 years old.

The most interesting thing of all:

Leaving a Cummins engine idling instead of shutting it off because it uses less fuel to let it run than it does to restart it, "is an old wive's tale." He even chuckled at that, and added "that hasn't been true about diesels in many, many years."

Thoughts? Opinions? Comments?

**fordson major** · #2 05/13/10, 08:33 PM

Thoughts? you lucky dog! what i would not give to have talked too that guy! Opinions? cummins build some of the best diesels out there! Comments? did you at least give him the HT site addy?

oneokie · #3 05/13/10, 08:42 PM

Did he say anything about when they are going to get a fix on their injector pumps that will last?

Rob30 · #4 05/13/10, 10:16 PM

I'm a new cummins owner. Mine in a 2001 with 456000km or roughly 270000 miles. Hope I can get to 1000000 miles.
Have not worked it yet, but I will be starting to this summer.

fordy · #5 05/13/10, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clovis

Here is an interesting topic, at least to me:

Dodge Cummins engines.

I met a guy tonight at McDonalds, and struck up a conversation while we watched our kids on the play place.

This guy is a "hands on' field engineer and mechanic for Cummins, which is about 30 miles from where I live, in Columbus, Indiana. Cummins is a HUGE employer for our area. They are a company known for good pay and benefits.

This guy works with test vehicles, test truck and engine programs, and is a real mechanic/engineer, and not some guy in a pin-striped suit and tie.

Anyway, here is some stuff he shared with me:

*Cummins knows of numerous Dodge trucks with their engines with over 1 million miles, and have had no engine rebuilds.

*Cummins builds the beefiest and strongest diesel engines when compared to the Chevy and Ford. He said they have "torn down and mic-ed out the competition's engines, and by far, our's is the strongest".

*The Cummins engine is a $7,000 option on Dodge trucks.

*This particular engine started on the drawing board as a tractor engine.

*For the 2010 model year, Ford is now building their own diesel, the Powerstroke. I sadly already knew this because Navistar, the former builder of the Powerstroke, closed in Indianapolis, costing hundreds and hundreds of jobs.

*For 2010 or 2011, all three manufacturers will use a Bosch fuel rail system.

*Of course, the Cummins engine is built in the US, at their Walesboro, Indiana plant.

*Cummins contracts with a certain truck owners to test, check and study how their engines are performing in the real world, under real world conditions.

*One of the people they contract with owns a 2007 Dodge Cummins Diesel, and it already has over 500,000 miles on it, even though it is less than 3 years old.

The most interesting thing of all:

Leaving a Cummins engine idling instead of shutting it off because it uses less fuel to let it run than it does to restart it, "is an old wive's tale." He even chuckled at that, and added "that hasn't been true about diesels in many, many years."

Thoughts? Opinions? Comments?

................Fords new diesel is a very innovative design , the exhaust is channeled up thru the position previously occupied by the intake manifold and moves vertically directly into the turbine . The fuel injection is positioned where the exhaust manifolds were previously . It is more complex than my superficial explanation . , fordy

**clovis** · #6 05/14/10, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordy

................Fords new diesel is a very innovative design , the exhaust is channeled up thru the position previously occupied by the intake manifold and moves vertically directly into the turbine . The fuel injection is positioned where the exhaust manifolds were previously . It is more complex than my superficial explanation . , fordy

Okay...I didn't know that.

What exactly are they trying to do? Increase the power, while reducing fuel consumption?

**clovis** · #7 05/14/10, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford major

Thoughts? you lucky dog! what i would not give to have talked too that guy! Opinions? cummins build some of the best diesels out there! Comments? did you at least give him the HT site addy?

It was a very cool conversation, to say the least!

I know that no one will believe this, but the thought of mentioning HT ran thru my mind...no joke...it really did.

We got side-tracked on body work for a minute, then chatted about ebay, and then our kids started chasing each other, while in the parking lot. That pretty much ended the conversation.

Then again, we didn't talk about gardens, farming, livestock, or shearing sheep. He might have thought I was plumb crazy for mentioning HT.

lonelytree · #8 05/14/10, 01:31 AM

I like my Cummins. Would easily buy another. I would like to see a 5 cylinder with 250 HP for 3/4 ton trucks. 325 HP is too much and wastes fuel.

**fordson major** · #9 05/14/10, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clovis

It was a very cool conversation, to say the least!

I know that no one will believe this, but the thought of mentioning HT ran thru my mind...no joke...it really did.

We got side-tracked on body work for a minute, then chatted about ebay, and then our kids started chasing each other, while in the parking lot. That pretty much ended the conversation.

Then again, we didn't talk about gardens, farming, livestock, or shearing sheep. He might have thought I was plumb crazy for mentioning HT.

maybe its just cause i am a mod but i try and recruit interesting people too HT all the time!

fordy · #10 05/14/10, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clovis

Okay...I didn't know that.

What exactly are they trying to do? Increase the power, while reducing fuel consumption?

..............Yes , but all three mfgers have had too add Urea tanks that mix Urea with the exhaust too clean it up to comply with ever increasiing standards of purity . The previous 5.9 Cummins can easily be made to produce 800 too 1000 ft. pounds of torque depending upon the application . , fordy

mightybooboo · #11 05/14/10, 09:59 AM

6-8000 for injectors on a new one.

1997 and earlier are purely mechanical motors and do get 3,4,and 500,000 miles routinely with owners reporting high mile rebuilds with the lower end still in fine shape.

It was/is? the only pickup truck motor of medium class you can buy.The older motors on Dodges were detuned to make 4sp auto tranny last(FWIW,was still a weak torque converter with 40%!! slip before third gear TC lockup.),so to see really high motor miles not unusual.Auto tranny definitely needs after market upgrades when original fails around 100,000 or so.

The Dodge Diesel forums report million mile motors all the time.

"I love my Cummins Motor,I hate my Dodge Truck" truer words were never spoken,that motor is beyond compare.

Buy Cummins parts from Cummins,not Dodge,better prices

215,000 miles on my 3/4 ton 4x4 gen 2, 1997,runs excellent,just breaking in IMO.Pretty low miles in fact,about average for age in Diesel forums,about only thing regarding longevity miles is people havent driven em enough miles yet.To see what they will do for them.17 mpg combines,weighs 5,800 pounds and does a 5000 foot climb up Mtn when driven for work.With plenty power too.

350,000 on buds 1991 I think it is,last year of gen 1.Runs excellent,25 mpg on freeway at 65 MPH,5 speed stick,1 ton.

Bud has 3.55 gears,I have 4.10,thats good for about 2 extra MPG with the 3.55,dont NEED 4.10 really with the cummins but certain models it was what you got.The 5 speed stick,3.55,1997 or earlier is the holy grail for miles.

mightybooboo · #12 05/14/10, 06:55 PM

oops,make that 3.54 gearing.

tyusclan · #13 05/14/10, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelytree

I like my Cummins. Would easily buy another. I would like to see a 5 cylinder with 250 HP for 3/4 ton trucks. 325 HP is too much and wastes fuel.

Bite your tongue, man! Saying a truck has too much HP is like saying a woman is too pretty.

I have been a big fan of Cummins engines since the 80s when I got to know a guy in the trucking business. He had one truck with a Cummins, and the others were Macks or GM's with Detroits. He could never brag enough on that Cummins.

My son also had a '90 Dodge with the Cummins. You just can't beat'em for torque and fuel economy. He's kicked himself ever since he sold it.

oz in SC V2.0 · #14 05/18/10, 02:50 PM

I have just at 190,000 miles on my 1998 Dodge 24v.
Still running strong and apart from the crappy lift pump placement that almost guarantees failure it would have required no real work on the engine...oh and the pedal sensor because a regular throttle cable was too simple for Dodge.

Now the Dodge part of the truck isn't THAT bad...although it is quite funny that to replace a power seat motor requires buying the complete seat assembly from Chrysler,it doesn't sell just the motors.

Same went with the accelerator pedal position sensor(APPS) that will go out eventually,it is sold as a complete unit including large metal bracket...except of course all you need is the little plastic sensor.

I am actually trading my truck for work getting done on our place and have been looking at other options in the truck world and might...GASP!!! but a gasoline truck.

DaleK · #15 05/18/10, 05:44 PM

Today isn't the day to talk to me about Cummins. Got a tractor sitting in a ditch 5 miles from home because, for the second time in 14 months, the entire fan assembly removed itself from the front of the block and went through the rad. Apparently some Cummins engineer determined that 4 1/4" bolts threaded less than an inch into the block on a 5.9L is adequate to hold the arm holding the fan and taking the entire torque passing through the belt. Hopefully we'll be able to get the broken ends out again.

DaleK · #16 05/18/10, 06:40 PM

Should mention this is a used tractor we bought almost 3 years ago. It's a 97. If you look at the end of the motor you can see where the previous owner had to fill in the original holes and drill and tap new ones to remount the fan. So this is at least the third time on this engine within 6000 hours.

**clovis** · #17 05/19/10, 10:11 AM

DaleK-

I'm sorry to hear about your problem, and hope that the repair goes smoothly and quickly.

I'd feel this way about what you are facing, regardless of the brand of engine.

I wonder if you called Cummins, and talked with one of their field techs, or someone like that, if they have a fix for your problem? Surely, you are not the only people to have experienced this problem.

A phone call might be worth a shot, especially if you have down time while waiting for parts.

DaleK · #18 05/19/10, 08:40 PM

Hey Clovis.

Talked to somebody at Cummins, he wasn't surprised. Apparently it's a known weak spot. Didn't have much to suggest. Dealer I bought the tractor off is looking into it to see if we can drill out the holes and retap them a couple of sizes bigger without risking getting too close to the water jacket or other parts of the block. Went to a rad shop to order a new rad, owner knew exactly what motor I meant. He has another customer who's replaced 4 rads in the last year because of the exact same Cummins problem.

Meanwhile, the clutch seized up on the AC compressor on my JD 7510 so it's sitting for a couple of days too. Good thing we're almost 2 weeks ahead on planting.

**alleyyooper** · #19 05/19/10, 09:09 PM

On my third Cummins/Dodge. first was a 91 with 3:54 rear and a 4 speed tranny. Easily got 22 MPG going to work down a paved two lane road thru to towns and a village @4 MPG going to the UPPER to the cabin with all my gear. It got 17 MPG when I took two of my Masseys on the tri axel equipment trailer to the Beaver Dam Wisconsin Massey show running 65 and 70 across the turn pike. Had 240,000 when I bought my 98, Know the fellow who bought it from me and he has close to 500.000 on it now. Body is getting a bit on the ruff side.
My 98 12V had 3:10 rear & 5 speed and the milage wasn't any thing to write home about. I was dumb and bought it like that off a lot cause it was a pretty truck with a quad cab I wanted. I still put 180,000 on it before tradeing it off for my 2004. It had 373 rear 6 speed I get 20 MPG no mater what I do with it it seems. I am always looking for a 7th gear and wish it had 3:54 or even 3:23 rear in it. sort of stupid on Dodges part the way I figure. the early lower HP engines you could get taller gears for milage and still pull houses of the foundation and with over 300HP you can't get any thing better than 3:73, How stupids that.

They also should do a smaller diesel for the 1/2 ton people.

Dodge Cummins Engines - Shop Talk

Al

**clovis** · #20 05/19/10, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleK

Hey Clovis.

Talked to somebody at Cummins, he wasn't surprised. Apparently it's a known weak spot. Didn't have much to suggest. Dealer I bought the tractor off is looking into it to see if we can drill out the holes and retap them a couple of sizes bigger without risking getting too close to the water jacket or other parts of the block. Went to a rad shop to order a new rad, owner knew exactly what motor I meant. He has another customer who's replaced 4 rads in the last year because of the exact same Cummins problem.

Meanwhile, the clutch seized up on the AC compressor on my JD 7510 so it's sitting for a couple of days too. Good thing we're almost 2 weeks ahead on planting.

I really hate to hear of your troubles.

I'm glad that you called Cummins. At least you know now.

FWIW, I knew a gal that had a faulty head gasket on a 5 year old car. I urged her to call the manufacturer, even though she resisted the idea. Turns out that her car was one of them that were covered by the manufacturer. Who on earth would have thunk it? Even I thought it was a crazy idea, with one in a million odds. She was desperately broke at the time though. The car was repaired in less than a week, and at no charge!!!!

I'm wondering if you could do a few things:

Are the bolts shearing? Could you replace them with a hardened bolt?

What about the idea of building a guard out of steel that would protect the radiator, but still allow the radiator to cool?

If the bolts are working themselves out, can you put lock tite in the threads?

This one will sound crazy, and when everyone gets done laughing at me, but can you tack weld the head of the bolts in place? Would a small tack or two of weld help hold the assembly to the block?

Please don't laugh too hard at me with these thoughts. I'm no rocket scientist, just a dumb guy trying to think out of the box.

Clove