urea tanks,aka diesel exaust fluid

[james dilley]

Well it seems the gen. of diesel engines now have A urea tank. And burn D E F. they go thru A regeneration process. to burn the carbons from the filter in the exuast system. So anyone else know about this system????

[plowjockey]

Apparently the filter is a catalytic converter.

Since a diesel engine exaust is not as hot as a gasoline engine, therefore the exaust gases won't burn the residue off of the converter. They have tried electric heaters to burn the carbon off, but it does not work all that well. Injecting urea somehow causes the converter to burn hot enough, to burn up the soot.

I have heard that truck stops will be forced to sell urea and drivers will be forced to buy it for their rigs.

Sound's like yet another nightmare, heaped on the shoulders of the trucking industry, in the quest for perfectly clean emissions.

[james dilley]

Urea, is $12.00 A gallon. right now. And the unit injects the fluid. into the filter system The sound is not that loud. the end result , is sopposed to be N O S

[unioncreek]

Burning the urea is not the big problem. My son worked for Detroit Diesel when they were developing the requirements and he said that trucks will have to stop and let the system burn it's self out. If you check on the new engines they have a particulate system on it that cost $10K to replace.

Bob

[zant]

Buy a glider and put a good(pre02)motor in it.My old codriver sat in a wally pkg lot for 45min with idle at 1200 before it would allow him to drive away.Pilot,TA,etc have urea for sale.Look at the roofs of trucks with these new motors that have side stacks-nice brown sludge.No thanks,if I decide to buy trucks again,it will be either pre02 or glider kits.

[Bluecometk]

I think Urea systems are a stopgap and will be short lived. The engine manufacturers haven’t been able to catch up with Gov regulations. A small change in fuel mixture to match the fuel in Europe, combustion chamber burn rate speed and a little ECU tuning and we should be ok with out the Urea systems in two to four years is my guess

These are just my opinions

Bluecometk

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by james dilley

Urea, is $12.00 A gallon. right now. And the unit injects the fluid. into the filter system The sound is not that loud. the end result , is sopposed to be N O S

I thought NOS was supposed to be bad for "the hole in the ozone layer!"

Anyone remember that end-of-the-world scenario?

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by Bluecometk

I think Urea systems are a stopgap and will be short lived. The engine manufacturers haven’t been able to catch up with Gov regulations. A small change in fuel mixture to match the fuel in Europe, combustion chamber burn rate speed and a little ECU tuning and we should be ok with out the Urea systems in two to four years is my guess

These are just my opinions

Bluecometk

You're probably right.

The Govt. wants clean air and truck mfgrs and truck buyers, get to foot the bill. If it's obsolete in a couple of years, too bad!

[Darren]

Diesel particulate filters came in with the 2007 models. When the sensors see that the exhaust is being restricted the engine goes into regen mode to burn out the carbon in the filter. The exhaust temperature during regen is 800+ degrees.

We recently ordered a new tanker for the fire dept early enough to get a 2009 KW without a urea system. As of the 2010 model year only one diesel engine manufacturer has been able to meet EPA requirements without a urea setup. All the others have to use them.

[james dilley]

My 2010 cascadia has A DD15 Detroit engine. An it regens while running down the road. The embolyn lights up during regen. 1st time it lit up I had No idea what was happing.. I know theres A better idea out there but who will decide when it comes out

[plowjockey]

Originally Posted by Darren

Diesel particulate filters came in with the 2007 models. When the sensors see that the exhaust is being restricted the engine goes into regen mode to burn out the carbon in the filter. The exhaust temperature during regen is 800+ degrees.

We recently ordered a new tanker for the fire dept early enough to get a 2009 KW without a urea system. As of the 2010 model year only one diesel engine manufacturer has been able to meet EPA requirements without a urea setup. All the others have to use them.

As you are probably aware, this regen setup can be considered a potential fire hazard. Here is one link that addresses the issue. http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110398

I drive a fuel tanker. Many fuel terminals now ban trucks with these regen systems, unless there is a manual shutoff switch, which many early versions did not have.

Something that can just start heating to 800 degreees anytime, anyplace can be a cause for concern.

[Sawmill Jim]

Something that can just start heating to 800 degreees anytime, anyplace can be a cause for concern.

Yes and believe it or not these fools run these things in the oil patch

Think the may have some that gets much hotter .

[Darren]

I'm aware of the fire hazard. We're a countywide fire dept. The tanker will be used in the rural areas. That means that it may be off road and on grass near brush at times.

The potential for starting a fire is something that has troubled me since I found out the exhaust temperature during regeneration. AFAIK the chasis hasn't been delivered to the body builder yet. KW knows the truck has been ordered for emergency service if for no other reason, the transmission.

The simplest solution might be a vertical stack on the exhaust.

[artificer]

I think people are mixing two different systems. One is to decrease particulates/soot, and the other is to lower NOX emmisions.

The particulate filter and regen control the soot emissions. Our work 2008 F250SD had to go back for a recall. The recall was due to proplems with

"thermal events."

(Can you say flamethrower? watch the video...)


Urea injection is used to lower the lean burn combustion's production of NOX. Used more in Europe, but its been showing up more in the US the last couple of years.

Michael