Small engine mechanics please

[Dahc]

I have a question on getting education in small engine mechanics.

For the last few weeks I have been looking into community/technical colleges in my area for courses on small engines and welding. I haven't been having much luck due to certain restrictions on the distance I can travel. The closest one that offers anything close to what I want to learn is 25 miles away and would require daily trips which is out of the question.

So, my next question is naturally, what level of quality is a distanced education in an area where it seems that "hands on" training is a necessity? I know that a lot of these things will supply me with a diploma but I seriously need to "learn" something here. I need to be able to actually fix a small engine because the necessity is right here at home with the tractor and lawnmowers and this and that. A diploma would be nice in case I ever thought of entering the field but real knowledge of how to fix small gasoline and diesel engines is the main motive.

Can a person get this from an online education?

[moopups]

This all depends on your currant level of experience. Such as if you can rebuild motorcycle engines then you don,t need outside knowledge. But if you don't know the exact correct term for a specific tool, a school will not do much in the ways of hands experience.

Can you hire on in a shop or rental place that rents a lot of powered equipment?

[Dahc]

Originally Posted by moopups

This all depends on your currant level of experience. Such as if you can rebuild motorcycle engines then you don,t need outside knowledge. But if you don't know the exact correct term for a specific tool, a school will not do much in the ways of hands experience.

Can you hire on in a shop or rental place that rents a lot of powered equipment?

I'm afraid I wouldn't be very useful to a shop. I am considered to be disabled from an illness I had in 2001. I CAN work, I just can't do everything that may be required in a shop for 8 hours a day.

As for experience levels, I would say my knowledge is basic at best. I can identify the major parts of an engine, cranks, cams, valves, rods, pistons and carburetor but I don't have any knowledge of troubleshooting what could be wrong with one that doesn't run. I know very little about the troubleshooting side of it all. Just the basics, if I smell gas it's probably flooded, if it wont turn over check the battery and it's terminals... That's about it though.

I feel kinda dumb being a 37 year old male who can't figure out what's wrong with his own tractor... I have some engines I can mess with here while viewing material (educational material) but I have this fear that I'll invest $500 or more dollars in an education like this and then not learn what I need to know. The $500 would be extremely hard to come up with so It'll be kinda like a one shot deal. I'll either get the education I'm looking for or just be out of luck.

[farminghandyman]

a good factory shop manual will uslay guide you step by step through many repairs or engine rebuilds, but you will have to study and learn the systems of engines in general Example: you will need to know how a carburetor works and why it does what it does to fix it and to properly diagnose it, and why you would work on it instead of the electrical system or the valves or the rings or piston,

some books can guide you but some times one need experience as well to work through things,

on the small and older motors the electrical is/was usually the weakest link of the motor, then the fuel system and then the mechanical systems, may times jsut cleaning the spark plug or changing it will make it run or not,

[Blu3duk]

how bout starting with the local parts supply house and purchasing a book on HOW TO rebuild small engines, generally those books are around $20-50.00 and are generic in information.... if you can understand the basics and transfer any of that knowledge base to a practical application of one of your current engines/ problems, then a course is not immediately needed, and a "hands on" course is probably not what you need much over the little tips and tricks a person learns from many tearing apart and putting back together over years of experience that usually cannot be taught, as no one ever knows all those tips and tricks and if they do in a learning center, they sometimes never think to pass that information along as it seems common knowledge to those folk unless it is something hardly ever encountered ..... Savvy that?

If you want to get engine specific it will of course cost you more, but like all things, most manuals have been transferred to CD and multiple manuals can be found on disk to be printed out, and such information can be found on the junkyard of cyberspace..... Ebay (tm) often for around the same pricetag as a single manual from the local parts haus.

It aint rocket science, and if you need practice engines, you can always look to the free sections of craigslist.com or the tool sections and look for the damaged mowers or the cheap ones needing a tune up.... or place an add in the local nikel sheet, you will get a response or three most likely.

William

[Dahc]

..... Savvy that?

Savvy!

Thanks for the input guys. It was very helpful. I think I'll check some parts stores and ebay this weekend and see what's available. I really want to be "able" to tackle more problems than just those I am encountering at the moment but I guess I'll start where I'm at and see what comes up as I go along.

I guess I could also try and find someone who fixes engines for themselves and trade 2 or 3 hours a day labor for some knowledge. I know I can do it for 2 or 3 hours a day if I can find someone to agree to it.
I'm not doing much more at this time other than sitting around wishing my tractor ran. lol. I guess I have the time.

[WayneR]

There are sites that rent DVD's and videos on the subject. A visit to the local library will also be usefull.

Interlibrary loan the following: Small Gas Engine video series #834,835 & 836
by Creative Educational Video. VHS. Always get more from watching than reading about it.

Never had much luck with wanting to "help someone " at their business. They see you as loosing a customer and as a potential competitor.

[moopups]

Dahc, open a new thread and tell us what brand and model of tractor you have and the details about it not starting. We will give you the necesary info to get it running, thats why we get the big bucks!

[Dahc]

Originally Posted by moopups

Dahc, open a new thread and tell us what brand and model of tractor you have and the details about it not starting. We will give you the necesary info to get it running, thats why we get the big bucks!

I've pretty much had it with my current tractor. It's a Yanmar 1700 with a front end loader and this is pretty much the straw that broke my back. I'm in the process of trying to use it (broken) as a down payment on a used Mahindra 2310. We've had the yanmar for about 5 years and it's spent at least 3 of them broke and it's always the same thing, cracked stuff because it got too hot to quick. It's air cooled junk. The mechanic told me it has to run at a higher rpm than normal because it's not water cooled but the higher I run it, the faster it breaks again no matter how much maintenance I do on it. I'm just sick of the thing. We've put more money into it than we spent to buy it. The bucket's worth 2k and I'm hoping the tractors still worth at least that. That'll mean the mahindra 2310 will only run us about 4k after the trade.

There's a lot of design flaws to it also. High thin back wheels and it's really short wheel base make it very easy to tip over. I have an uncle who has tipped it over twice after I loaned it to him to work on his driveway. It's a lucky thing for him, no injuries. I've never done that myself but riding on two wheels is not a new thing while using it.

That's kinda what this whole issue is over. I'll have a newer, better tractor and I want to be able to work on it when I need to and not have to save money for 6 months just to get it running if something breaks. I also wouldn't mind being able to bushhog fields to supplement my SS check. It would be even better to be able to tell the gov to keep their SS check but I can't see that happening unless I can fix my own equipment. Sure would save a lot in repair costs. Last time the yanmar broke it was $1000 to fix it.

The way I see it, if I had a tractor that ran most of the time and could get enough work for 3-4 hours a day, 3-4 days a week, I could easily give up that SS check even still being partially disabled.

Yanmar 1700 + SS check = constantly broke

[retire2$]

My advice is to check out the library first. They usually have or can get books on almost any subject. Even if you don't have the time or experience to do a certain job you will gain a certain amount of knowledge that will be helpful when you contract the work out.

The local college uses "Outdoor Power Equipment" by Jay Webster ISBN 0-7668-1391-6 for the small engine repair course it offers. The book is available from Amazon.com.

Home, internet, mail order courses are only as good as the text books.

College and hands on education is only as good as the instructors.

[foxtrapper]

As for the small engine side, you really can learn that yourself. Find some lawnmowers, literally, and take them apart. They are simple and the manuals available a the library will walk you through them quite well. You can take digital pictures of components and post them online to get input on what you're seeing from various forums. And you will learn.

I wouldn't recommend jumping straight into more complex engines just yet. Though that will come quickly.

As for welding, that's harder to learn via the library and internet. Not that it can't be done, but it's much more difficult to learn good techniques without someone watching over your shoulder. Though a number of welding equipment sites have very good films and such showing proper techniques and what to listen for.

Many a welding shop would be willing to let you pay them to spend some time welding with them on your stuff and critique you or show you how to set the machine up.

[Dahc]

Thanks all! Got a wealth of information here.

What do you all think of military training manuals? There is a guy on ebay selling a military diesel manual on CD. It's supposed to be 7 courses/ 1500 pages. No video with it but maybe the library (as mentioned) has some video. The guy also has military hydraulics and welding courses in the same format.

They're fairly cheap, like $10 after shipping. I can't see it as a loss if I was to buy them.

[crafty2002]

I know the feeling about the ss check. They don't go very far, do they??

Small engines are fairly simple to work on. I took a shop class on the in the 7th or 8th grade and learned it all pretty much in one hour a day for a year of school.

If I were you, I would get a manual for the tractor you have and use it as a learning tool. I expect with your tractor, a manual for it, and and a thread on this forum, the good people on here can help you get it running.
You will earn what it would cost by getting it running and probably more , on the trade in. This will get you some hands on experiance. I have fixed many a thing that I had no idea what I was doing, but I always knew to call on someone that did know and start asking questions.
If I were you though, even when you do get it running, stick to your guns about tradeing it in. A tractor like that can kill you in a heartbeat.

As far welding, I have welded sense 1971. I can't think of which ones are the better ones, but there are some good video's that can help you learn. I have already told someone on here tonight that Harbor Freight has a pretty good welder for less than $200 bucks and 3/32" 6011 rods are the easiest to learn to use you can find. That's the only rod I use any more because I can't hardly see the puddle any longer and I am pretty much welding just from experiance from over the years. But I can still do a good job with that rod. A 7018 rod is a lot better rod to use on most things but you have to be able to see good and handle the puddle at all times and I just can't see, and I already have a 2.25 power cheater lens in my shield, lol.
If you do get a welder a start haveing problems feel welcome to e-mail me and I will try to help out as much as posible. And I am sure there are plenty others on HT that well do so too.

Good luck
Dennis

[Dahc]

Originally Posted by crafty2002

I know the feeling about the ss check. They don't go very far, do they??

Small engines are fairly simple to work on. I took a shop class on the in the 7th or 8th grade and learned it all pretty much in one hour a day for a year of school.

No, they sure don't go far.

I took that same course. lol. I just had other things on my mind like girls and beer. That's the only reason I can identify the parts of an engine. Really wishin' I would have paid more attention right about now.

If I were you, I would get a manual for the tractor you have and use it as a learning tool. I expect with your tractor, a manual for it, and and a thread on this forum, the good people on here can help you get it running.
......
If I were you though, even when you do get it running, stick to your guns about tradeing it in. A tractor like that can kill you in a heartbeat.

It's history. I turned it over to my dad and he went and bought a brand new Kioti CK20 with a front end loader and backhoe attachment. It's a bit more than I would have spent. $17,900. I guess I need to find a repair manual for it. I guess I just became a small backhoe operator along with bushhog specialist. I'll practice with it so I can help him pay that huge bill. Once I can use it, I already have work for it (paying work).

If you do get a welder a start haveing problems feel welcome to e-mail me and I will try to help out as much as posible. And I am sure there are plenty others on HT that well do so too.

Thanks man. I actually have 2 ark welders I could use whenever I chose too, I just can't use them. I also have a pretty decent welding manual my wife bought me last year. I like to make stuff and JB weld only goes so far. lol. Just need to find some decent gloves to weld with. I know they aren't "too" expensive, it's just rerouting money for one purpose to buy the gloves. You know how it goes...

Thanks to all of you. You have been very helpful.

[65284]

Hey Dahc,

I bought a box with 10 pairs of welding gloves at a sale for not very much. More than I'll ever use. PM me you address and I will send you a pair.

65284

[Dahc]

I want all you guys to know that 65284 DID send me this set of welding gloves that he offered. I got them 2 days ago. I should have posted this earlier.

Thank you so much! God is going to bless you for that too!

[steader]

great input everyone, thanks.

[crafty2002]

Hey Dahc, we haven't heard from you lately. Hows things going???
That was nice of you 65284. I could have sent him a pair, but all of mine are peretty well broken in, lol. I have been looking at the 3 pairs for sale at Harbor Freight for about 10 bucks, but my money is short also, and I ain't burning my fingers yet, lol.
Dahc, just be carefull and go slow with your new toy and you'll have it down pat in no time.
You may have done better than I did in the shop class. I didn't want anything to do with girls at the time and when I did get interested I was dum as a door nail!! Never did get over that. Still can't figure them out. I should have taken Home ec LOL.
Please know one thing. Your new toy can kill you in a heart beat. It can kill someone else even faster than that. Make sure you never touch a lever if there is anyone in the way. I was smacked about 25 feet, by a bucket when I was a kid, and the guy was a good operator. I was just a dum kid. A luckey dum kid. Just a few brusies. And a lot of .
But it doesn't take long to learn to run one. Faster than learning to weld, I assure you.
Good Luck and God Bless
Dennis