Is this a pressure switch problem???

[copperkid3]

The tenant gave me a call this morning; stated that she had no water. So went up to take a looksy. This is a shallow well with a Burke pump and somehow it had tripped the breaker to avoid overheating. Tried to flip the breaker on and it made the pump hum and then kicked off the breaker again. Figured that impeller or bearing shot in pump and since I have replacement Burkes that I pick up at sales (garage, auctions, etc.), that it would be faster for everyone involved to just pull the pump out and replace it with one that runs. Unfortunately......the replacement(s) never line up quite right or there is just one part that doesn't quite fit......and you have to run to town to find it. Such was this case, but upon returning.....had everything back in order and rewired, primed the pump and hit the switch and lo and behold......we had water again!!! Truely a joy when everything comes together.....but wait; what do we have here? The pump is moving the pressure needle up to about 23-25 lbs. and continues to run.......this goes on for over 30 minutes. I fiddle with the nuts inside the pressure switch......nothing happens. Finally, I reluctantly reach up and flip the switch to the shut-off and the pump goes silent.......don't need to have it burn out after spending the effort to get it going. The tenant has enough water to take a shower, etc. for tonight......but something needs to be done tomorrow. Am I correct in thinking that the pressure switch is bad since it won't trigger the pump to shut off? Can I replace it with the parts off the old pump which had a replacement switch put on about a year or so ago? Is there anyone who can talk me thru what needs to be done on setting the nuts on the switches to the correct positions for proper running and shut-off? Any other suggestions/tips are as always.....most welcome.

thanks

[Bearfootfarm]

Most pumps wont cut off until it gets to around 40 -60 lbs. If its not building pressure there may be an underground leak somewhere. Try running it with the water line to the house shut off and see if it builds pressure. If it does there is probably a leak between there and the house

[copperkid3]

Originally Posted by Bearfootfarm

Most pumps wont cut off until it gets to around 40 -60 lbs. If its not building pressure there may be an underground leak somewhere. Try running it with the water line to the house shut off and see if it builds pressure. If it does there is probably a leak between there and the house

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Thanks Bearfootfarm, but when I was pulling the old pump out, the line coming from the well was under extreme pressure and took almost 10 minutes to blow off the water! Besides which.....about a year or so ago, we had the well guy come out and replace the black plastic to the well and also put on a replacement siphon foot on the bottom of it. So not likely a leak on that side. Regarding the side going on to the rest of the house......have tried the shut off and it STILL refuses to build up pressure higher than 25#.......will just continue to run. So for the time being......have let it run for 10 minutes and then shut the pump off on a daily basis. Tenant doesn't have much water or pressure obviously, but I'm running out of ideas......ANYONE ????

[12vman]

How far down is the syphon foot? Using just 1 line from the pump to the well limits you to around 25' of lift. Maybe the water level in the well dropped? If this is the case, you may need to move the jet to the well using the 2 line system..
Don

[copperkid3]

Originally Posted by 12vman

How far down is the syphon foot? Using just 1 line from the pump to the well limits you to around 25' of lift. Maybe the water level in the well dropped? If this is the case, you may need to move the jet to the well using the 2 line system..
Don

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The well itself is LESS than 20 deep; in fact there is so much ground water that we have the sump pump in the corner of the basement that continues to pump thru-out the year.....water comes in at a steady basis......that pump probably comes on at least 12-20 times a day! Not likely that the water level has dropped any.
This shallow well pump is a SINGLE line.

[rambler]

Sounds to me like the 1st pump wore out & locked up.

The replacement used pump is also wore out & can't build up the pressure.

'Here' with 2 story houses, don't know of a pump that can't make 50psi, or it doesn't get water up to the bathroom. If you have a way different pump, then never mind.

--->Paul

[agmantoo]

You need to clean all the supply lines to the pump itself and you need to install a cutoff valve between the pump and the line feeding the tank. A second cutoff valve from the tank to the home also is a major benefit when trouble shooting the system. If the pump then cannot make pressure , then consider pump replacement. My opinion is that there is an obstruction (partial) on the inlet to the pump.

[copperkid3]

A lot of good suggestions and I thank you one and all. It will give me some more ideas on how to proceed on some. In going over them, I thought it might help to update and clarify some, if these were covered in more depth now.

The pressure tank is the bladder type; about 20 gallon size. The pump is a single line, shallow well Burke pump that sits in a heated, Michigan basement; so no frozen lines. The supply line comes out from the corner wall, just above the floor; and the well itself sits about 10 feet further out and runs about 20 foot deep. I've always used a Burke pump because of their relative simplicity, ease of use and replacement.....because they are all about the same, they just slide out and then slide in the next one. Usually everything works and we're back in business. Nothing ever changes; no regulators, no check valves.
I spent a good portion of the afternoon tearing apart the old pump; salvaging parts and also to see what was wrong with it. It appears that while the motor itself still runs, the impeller had corrorded and started to "hang-up".....which explains why the electrical breaker kept tripping. However, even if that hadn't been at fault, it also appears that it was living on borrowed time, as there is also a very noisy bearing that is/was about to fail in the motor itself. Being down in the basement with no one around to check on it on a regular basis.....oh well......(no pun intended)
Burke is good pump, built to last and had been around forever ......perhaps TOO good is more precise.......they eventually went the way of many who build an item that threatens the competition. They were bought out and then quickly and quietly discontinued. Parts are still out there, but are getting harder to locate now. I've got one more "spare" older model Burke that is going to be tried in place of my "problem child" tomorrow morning. Then if that fails.....guess it's time to call in some expert help. Though it seems that the professionals around my area, seem to know less about pumps and wells than some of us free-lancers!

[Jack in VA]

Since the simptems(sp) are not the same, I'd say the problem is in the pump...worn out or fried impeller.

[Jim S.]

Aha! Posted in two places!

Jet pump? Then while fixing it the first time you simply knocked loose a rust chunk or sediments and clogged the jet. Been there, done that. Clear it.

[copperkid3]

UPDATE ON THE SHALLOW WELL PUMP TROUBLE

Thought it was about time to bring everyone up to speed on what has transpired. Spent most of yesterday checking and rechecking the connections at the joints/black plastic pipe and then pulling them and redoing them again......ended up doing it at least (5) times before giving it up and pulling that pump out and putting in another "used" older Burks pump. After reconnecting it and powering it up......could only get a maximum of 10# of pressure!!! So instead of going forward, ended up getting further behind.....at least the other pump had 25#. Went home late......tired and defeated. This morning I decided to bite the bullet and called the pros and a short time later, 2 guys from the pump repair shop showed up and started to try and figure out what was wrong. Almost immediately they decided that "while the Burks was a good pump ......they are now out of business and parts are nearly impossible to get...." I could see where this was leading and sure enough, he turned the discussion very quickly into ....."we can hook you up with a BRAND NEW PUMP for only $376.00 which includes all labor.......plus tax." (In other words; $398.56) Of course he then hedged his quote, by stating that there might be a leak in the line leading out to the well....or in the well pipe itself.....all this without having even checking out that we had a 4" deep well covered pipe just 5 feet away and outside. I then invited him to take a look at the well. At this point he became more excited and stated that it was actually a deep well and that we could put a submersible in it and have more pressure with less trouble than using the shallow well pumps. However, his inept helper then broke off the set bolt on the side of the well cap and then both of them tried pounding on the die cast cap.....attempting to break it.....I quickly put a stop to that......as he also just previously mentioned that they would have to put on a special cap if they did put the submersible in ....which would cost $69.95.....plus tax!!! Having just put in submersible a few years before in our "new" house ....with the help from a friend.....I knew we could get that same cap for less than a third what he'd just quoted me......and figured these guys are just looking to rip-off the ill-informed. So they were paid their pound of flesh for less than 20 minutes on the scene ($69) and sent on their way.
My dad and I then went into town and started shopping and finally decided on a 1/2hp Flo-Max shallow well pump for $147.00 from Menards. Spent about 2 and half more hours putting the fittings together and making sure everything lined up perfectly, wiring it in.....then primed it and turned it on...... it ran and ran and .....continued running.....I began to get a bit nervous and re-read the instructions again....(okay, okay.....for the 1st time!!!) But it said that it should have water flowing after 5 minutes; and if not......to repeat the priming sequence and try again. As it started to approach 4 minutes.....I suddenly detected a "different" sound like a sucking sound when someone is trying to get that last bit of slurpy out of the bottom of their cup ......and suddenly there was a slight movement on the pressure gauge......and little by little it began creeping upwards......oh what a beautiful sight!! It approached and then suddenly passed by 40# and continued onward.....and when it hit 50# it quickly shut-off. Silence......just the "sound" that I'd been waiting for. Gathered up the tools and useless junked pumps and brought them out of the basement and over to the truck. And it was great to be able to look the tenant in the face and tell her she could now take a shower.....or whatever. She was VERY thankful as well. After working at trying to get some old and obsolete pumps to work for the past 3-4 days, I learned a hard lesson. Sometimes it pays to just buy new and get it finished right the first time. Anyway.... the job is finally DONE. Thanks all for your help and suggestions in this trying time.