Thoughts on a Shell home

TxHorseMom · #1 08/02/12, 03:48 PM

Hubby and I are considering a shell home. What we originally thought was to buy a "handyman special" something inexpensive that we can buy for cash, and fix up the way we want. We are very "handy" We totally remodeled our last houses' kitchen and bath. We have done extensive tile work, layed laminate floors, carpet, are able to do some plumbing and electrical (the easy stuff) and some sheetrock, kitchen cabinets, etc. But after considering all the "hidden" problems you can have, expecially in an older home, we thought that maybe a Shell home is the way to go. What we would want to have done is the basic shell, and the electrical and plumbing plus (depending on where we buy a piece of property) septic or hooking into existing sewer line.

Thoughts? Pros/Cons?

eta we would have the heat/ac put in by professionals also.

hhhandyman · #2 08/02/12, 04:18 PM

Are you planning on living in the shell while you complete it? Will you have to deal with frost / freezing during that time?

TxHorseMom · #3 08/02/12, 04:36 PM

No, we are currently living in an inexpensive rental home while we are saving up $$ so figured to just stay there until its done. There *may* be a hard freeze this winter. We don't get one every year.

hhhandyman · #4 08/02/12, 04:56 PM

Will it be on a slab, crawlspace, or full basement?

bignugly · #5 08/02/12, 05:20 PM

If you plan to stay in the home the rest of your life, build new and then you are sure of what is there-proper energy efficiency, plumbing, electric and possibly some solar. If you are planning to resell shortly then go with already existing home and remodel.

TxHorseMom · #6 08/03/12, 12:37 PM

We plan on living there for at least 10 years. (I say the rest of our lives, DH is not so sure, but I know him. If I'm happy and not pushing to move, he won't push to move.) We are leaning towards slab if we were to build, although there are different companies out there, so we could pick pier and beam or post and beam. There aren't basements in Tx due to the large amounts of sand in the ground. Too unstable.

janetn · #7 08/03/12, 04:14 PM

We built one 17 years ago. Its much much easier than remodeling! We did everything but the basement septic and well. Had the house liveable in 16 weeks. We lived in a camper on the property while we built. I would highly recomend going for it! We built on a cash basis so it took us longer to finish the house. My advise would be keep it simple, the lumberyard guy said to look at it as a large garage and it wont seem so daunting

. Ive heard that the post and beam type of building is much more expensive and harder. We picked out a ranch style and then modified the plans a tad - added a cathedral ceiling in the great room and moved interior walls ect. If you have any questions Id be glad to answer them to the best of my ability.

PS the hardest thing was seaming the frickin drywall

Alaska · #8 08/03/12, 05:08 PM

If you have the time and the energy and work with the hubby real well go for it.
just remember the best investment you will make is insulation.
we have lived and built in the north and now in the south.
Living in texas now most people/builders pay a lot less attention to the insulation than us yankees but let me tell you from my expierence it is much easier to keep a house warm than it is cool.
If you are very sure of where you want everything as far as layout goes I think a slab is great.
I prefer pier and beam or a full on basement. Its much easier to move and/or add plumbing/electrical. A storm shelter is a real comfort also. A crawl space is a naturally cool place.
I think they do slabs for ease/speed and cost of building. Ive never met a slab that did not crack.

clovis · #9 08/03/12, 09:10 PM

I like the idea of a shell home...but only if your county allows it.

TxHorseMom · #10 08/04/12, 12:56 AM

Alaska, you're absolutely right! Many builders skimp a lot on the insulation. But it gets so HOT out here I don't understand why. DH is originally from NY and I am from MI so I know exactly what you are talking about. We are currently researching the spray foam insulation that Mike Holmes uses so often on his show. (I'm a HGTV, DIY and all those shows junkie) We like the idea of it getting every nook and crannie and there are "kits" out there so you can DIY.

Hubby and I work GREAT together. He knows his strength and weakness and so do I. Who ever is the best at something, the other one will "assist". ie I am the "tiler" in the family. He measures and cuts and I lay them and grout them. Electrical and plumbing, I had him the tools lol. I remember on our last house, we were installing the new garden tub and I had to crawl underneath it and attach "something" and he was holding it up and off of me. I kept asking him was he SURE he had a hold of that thing because I wasn't sure how I was going to explain that I had a bathtub land on my face the next day when I went to work. lol But fortunately he did have a hold of it and I was able to go to work unscathed.

TxHorseMom · #11 08/04/12, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janetn

We built one 17 years ago. Its much much easier than remodeling! We did everything but the basement septic and well. Had the house liveable in 16 weeks. We lived in a camper on the property while we built. I would highly recomend going for it! We built on a cash basis so it took us longer to finish the house. My advise would be keep it simple, the lumberyard guy said to look at it as a large garage and it wont seem so daunting

. Ive heard that the post and beam type of building is much more expensive and harder. We picked out a ranch style and then modified the plans a tad - added a cathedral ceiling in the great room and moved interior walls ect. If you have any questions Id be glad to answer them to the best of my ability.

PS the hardest thing was seaming the frickin drywall

I HATE tape and floating drywall!!! And I am not very good at it either. We have no problem putting up the drywall but the other......not so much. That part we will probably have to have someone do for us. If you have any tips, I would love to know them. We want to do as much as possible.

bignugly · #12 08/04/12, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxHorseMom

Alaska, you're absolutely right! Many builders skimp a lot on the insulation. But it gets so HOT out here I don't understand why. DH is originally from NY and I am from MI so I know exactly what you are talking about. We are currently researching the spray foam insulation that Mike Holmes uses so often on his show. (I'm a HGTV, DIY and all those shows junkie) We like the idea of it getting every nook and crannie and there are "kits" out there so you can DIY.

Hubby and I work GREAT together. He knows his strength and weakness and so do I. Who ever is the best at something, the other one will "assist". ie I am the "tiler" in the family. He measures and cuts and I lay them and grout them. Electrical and plumbing, I had him the tools lol. I remember on our last house, we were installing the new garden tub and I had to crawl underneath it and attach "something" and he was holding it up and off of me. I kept asking him was he SURE he had a hold of that thing because I wasn't sure how I was going to explain that I had a bathtub land on my face the next day when I went to work. lol But fortunately he did have a hold of it and I was able to go to work unscathed.

Those shows are great for ideas and such but just remember most if not all materials they use is given to them for advertising. The spray foam is excellent but expensive, even the DIY kind. One option would be to put a thin layer of foam on the outside wall or ceiling to seal it then whatever insulation you want over that. When you do start to build, plan ahead and "rough-in" for eventual uses later. Like maybe adding solar as an example.

mike554 · #13 08/04/12, 08:49 AM

Check out structual insulated panels (sips). It's what I put on my timber frames but you can also build using just the panels. Very energy efficient.

TxHorseMom · #14 08/04/12, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike554

Check out structual insulated panels (sips). It's what I put on my timber frames but you can also build using just the panels. Very energy efficient.

Yes we're looking into that too. (are you talking about the panels that go on the outside before you put the outside material such as siding?) If it's what I think you're talking about we're thinking to put a layer of those panels, then foam over them, or vice versa.

mike554 · #15 08/04/12, 03:14 PM

Yes but you don't need to add anything like foam to them. You can get different thicknesses of foam. I have 5 1/2" on my walls and 7 1/2" on my roof. It should be completely air tight when done right since you spray foam between the panels during assembly. They go up quick. You also don't have a hot attic space to radiate down during the summer. I get my panels from General Panel out of Johnson City, Tenn. They have the best prices that I've found. I put up a timber frame in Mt. and it was still cheaper to get panels from Tn and ship to Mt. than getting them some place closer.

Alaska · #16 08/04/12, 03:31 PM

im not a fan of the foam being prayed on the under side of the roof decking.
If you ever have even a little leak in your roof the moisture is trapped and you would not know it until the decking and rafters rot away. Seen major damage to more than home in AK.
WE built with papercrete blocks. Adobe style blocks made of a mixture of recycled paper and portland cement. A friend of mine is building with pressed earth block looks and sounds like a good system. blocks are made from soil on site.
WE moved in as soon as we had the hardwood floor layed in one bedroom and enough of the kitchen to put the frig in place.
WE did most of the work but we did hire the drywall and painting of the interior walls and ceiling done to speed up the move in date. Plus its the part I like the least and its nice to have a nice finish.

Alaska · #17 08/04/12, 03:35 PM

careful on the ac especially if you insulate well. All these guys down here want to put in a monster unit with miles of ducting (breeding grounds). Bids were out of site.
Check out minisplits. we are cooling our whole house 1900sq ft with one minisplit unit.

mike554 · #18 08/04/12, 03:54 PM

When I worked for a timber frame company here in NC we worked on a couple places that used the spray foam. It may have been the crew doing the spraying but I noticed quite a few places where you could see daylight from either where they missed or the studs shrunk after they sprayed. With sips you don't have that thermal break that you get with studs also. When my ac was installed in my timber frame with sips in Md the HVAC company did put a smaller unit than the sq. ft. called for. I also installed an air to air heat exchanger. We don't have or need ac here in the NC mts.

janetn · #19 08/04/12, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxHorseMom

I HATE tape and floating drywall!!! And I am not very good at it either. We have no problem putting up the drywall but the other......not so much. That part we will probably have to have someone do for us. If you have any tips, I would love to know them. We want to do as much as possible.

If we were to do it over we would go ahead and do the walls but have someone else seam the ceiling. The best advice I got was to water and mix [with a drill] the mud, much much easier to seam with the mud " fluffy". Other than that its just plain a PITA no way around it.

We did our own electricial and plumbing - wasnt that hard [per hubby] he had zero experience but wasnt afraid to pick brains and get really good books. The books were our saviour, they are easy to follow. BTW we passed all of our inspections on the first try. The electrical inspector was known to be tough and nobody passed on the first try! He walked in stood there a few minutes [while we were sweating bullets] then announced "I can see someone took a lot of time and did this right!" Remember you are going to do things right and much better than a contractor. You have a stake in the job and to a contractor its a job to get done as fast and as cheaply as possible. Our daughter has a home in one of those fancy expensive devlopments. We can see where they cut corners and did a half -----ed job even on their high end house.

As far as insulation - well in our ignorance we cut the insulation around outlets and windows exact. Found out later thats not the way its done the contractors cut fast and not so close lol. We have no drafts and our house only uses a fraction of propane and wood of what comparable houses do, and I keep it warm during Michigan winters. Again the lesson is do it yourself and it will pay off in the end.

Lastly it was fun and Id do it again in a heartbeat. Much much easier than a remodel job!

TxHorseMom · #20 08/04/12, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alaska

careful on the ac especially if you insulate well. All these guys down here want to put in a monster unit with miles of ducting (breeding grounds). Bids were out of site.
Check out minisplits. we are cooling our whole house 1900sq ft with one minisplit unit.

Please tell me more about these minisplits. I've never heard of them.

MO_cows · #21 08/04/12, 08:29 PM

This is something we are interested in doing, too. We want to take down our old house and build a new one in the same site. We have plans already drawn and got 3 bids, all much higher than they should have been for the size and simplicity of the house. DH is likely going to lose his job soon so we don't dare take out a construction loan now anyway. So, our fallback plan is scrimp and save, save, save enough to get the foundation and shell done, then finish it pay as we go. We have an RV we could stay in, also. One stumbling block is we want a full basement and a tornado shelter under the back porch, so just the foundation bid is almost $15k. That is one thing we can't do ourselves.

TxHorseMom · #22 08/04/12, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janetn

If we were to do it over we would go ahead and do the walls but have someone else seam the ceiling. The best advice I got was to water and mix [with a drill] the mud, much much easier to seam with the mud " fluffy". Other than that its just plain a PITA no way around it.

We did our own electricial and plumbing - wasnt that hard [per hubby] he had zero experience but wasnt afraid to pick brains and get really good books. The books were our saviour, they are easy to follow. BTW we passed all of our inspections on the first try. The electrical inspector was known to be tough and nobody passed on the first try! He walked in stood there a few minutes [while we were sweating bullets] then announced "I can see someone took a lot of time and did this right!" Remember you are going to do things right and much better than a contractor. You have a stake in the job and to a contractor its a job to get done as fast and as cheaply as possible. Our daughter has a home in one of those fancy expensive devlopments. We can see where they cut corners and did a half -----ed job even on their high end house.

As far as insulation - well in our ignorance we cut the insulation around outlets and windows exact. Found out later thats not the way its done the contractors cut fast and not so close lol. We have no drafts and our house only uses a fraction of propane and wood of what comparable houses do, and I keep it warm during Michigan winters. Again the lesson is do it yourself and it will pay off in the end.

Lastly it was fun and Id do it again in a heartbeat. Much much easier than a remodel job!

I'm starting to get excited about this. Unfortunately, we're still about a year away from doing this. But, that gives me plenty of time to plan, learn, and find a piece of property. I'm thinking we might just get our dream home for a fraction of the cost. (We're not going crazy here, only going to do 1800 sq ft max) We will be paying as we go. Buying the shell outright and then work on it some every month until it's done. We should be able to sink in about
$2k a month till its done. Janet, I was thinking the same thing. With the shell, you don't have demo work and there are no "surprises" when you open up a wall.

TxHorseMom · #23 08/04/12, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO_cows

This is something we are interested in doing, too. We want to take down our old house and build a new one in the same site. We have plans already drawn and got 3 bids, all much higher than they should have been for the size and simplicity of the house. DH is likely going to lose his job soon so we don't dare take out a construction loan now anyway. So, our fallback plan is scrimp and save, save, save enough to get the foundation and shell done, then finish it pay as we go. We have an RV we could stay in, also. One stumbling block is we want a full basement and a tornado shelter under the back porch, so just the foundation bid is almost $15k. That is one thing we can't do ourselves.

You will definately have to keep me posted on your progress! It sounds like you are closer to starting than we are, so I will be interested in your progress. Good luck. What type and size shell are you looking at? If you don't mind telling me, what quotes did you get? ie they quoted $45k for a 1400 sq foot?

MO_cows · #24 08/05/12, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TxHorseMom

You will definately have to keep me posted on your progress! It sounds like you are closer to starting than we are, so I will be interested in your progress. Good luck. What type and size shell are you looking at? If you don't mind telling me, what quotes did you get? ie they quoted $45k for a 1400 sq foot?

We got the bids for a full build, not a shell. The house is a simple rectangle, 1700 sq feet. Trusses for roof with overhang for full front and back porches. Interior walls are not load bearing. Easy peasy construction for pros. We would provide corrugated steel for roof and siding and other material; we were furnishing about $25k in materials. The bids came in between $170k and $238k. Two other builders we had out never even came back with a bid, and one of those was to build with SIP's. Really an eye opener. In the meantime we spent some of what we had saved to buy another property, our son and family live there and will buy it back. And DH's job got really shaky. So if we took out a mortgage I couldn't sleep at night. We have to figure out a way to do it debt free.

willow_girl · #25 08/05/12, 11:09 AM

DH#2 and I did this back in the early 90s ... when we were finished, our "sweat equity" was worth about $75,000 (what we had into the home vs. its appraised value).

Not sure, with the housing market in the state it's in, whether that would be the case today, though!

janetn · #26 08/05/12, 06:41 PM

This is what we did - A 768 sq ft main floor, with a walkout basement - which gives us another 768. We did this 1] because of taxes, much cheaper to have a walkout. 2 ]Since its only the two of us it has worked out well. Also we could finish the upstaris faster/cheaper, then work on the walkout [BTW we havent done it yet! Found we dont need the room! ] and we always find other things to do ie greenhouse pool ect.... If we go to sell we will finish the basement. We have saved thousands in taxes over the years. Plus its less to heat too. We originally thought we would want the extra room - we found we dont need it nor even want it!

We ended up with $40,000 total in the house including the land [5 acres] We have been able to get some of the goodies we would have gone without - like a whirlpool tub and high end woodstove, and all wood trim. With no housepayment we have had extra money to have fun with too. - boat camper trips ect.

Something to keep in mnd when you look for land is whether you can put a walkout in. Also ask the neighbors how deep their well is. The cost of a well can vary by thousands depending on how deep you have to go.We got lucky and the house across from us was a well driller. He put our well in at 45 ft for a thousand dollars, including the pump, said it was the neighbor discount!

TxHorseMom · #27 08/05/12, 08:58 PM

JanetN,
We can't have a basement or walkout of any type. The soil in Tx is way too sandy and unstable for a basement. They just aren't allowed. We also don't want to have any house payment at all. One of the areas we are looking at has "city" water so we won't have to dig a well. The other area we would probably have to dig a well. So that was a good tip about asking the neighbors. Thanks.

dablack · #28 08/06/12, 10:53 AM

I'm building my own home right now. We are just south of Rusk TX and I'm building on slab. Remember the most expensive part of the house is the roof and foundation. We are keeping it very simple so it is easy to build. We went with 26x52 for the slab. Open floor plan with kitchen, dining, living all down stairs. I don't have any pipes in the slab. The only water downstairs is the kitchen and it will just kick out the wall to go to septic. Upstairs we are using attic trusses. This gives us a 19' wide room the whole length of the house. Upstairs will be three bedrooms and two baths (we have four kids). Easy plumbing because almost all the piping is between the 2nd and 1st floor.

Slab and dirt work: $10k
septic: $5k
windows, down stairs lumber, 2nd floor subfloor, and roof sheathing: $5k
Upstairs trusses: $6k

Not too bad to get dried in. We are building it all ourselves. Cost us $1k to pipe the water 600' up to the slab.

Check out countryplans.com for lots of great builds. I've got a thread going with pictures and prices.

Austin

TxHorseMom · #29 08/06/12, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dablack

I'm building my own home right now. We are just south of Rusk TX and I'm building on slab. Remember the most expensive part of the house is the roof and foundation. We are keeping it very simple so it is easy to build. We went with 26x52 for the slab. Open floor plan with kitchen, dining, living all down stairs. I don't have any pipes in the slab. The only water downstairs is the kitchen and it will just kick out the wall to go to septic. Upstairs we are using attic trusses. This gives us a 19' wide room the whole length of the house. Upstairs will be three bedrooms and two baths (we have four kids). Easy plumbing because almost all the piping is between the 2nd and 1st floor.

Slab and dirt work: $10k
septic: $5k
windows, down stairs lumber, 2nd floor subfloor, and roof sheathing: $5k
Upstairs trusses: $6k

Not too bad to get dried in. We are building it all ourselves. Cost us $1k to pipe the water 600' up to the slab.

Check out countryplans.com for lots of great builds. I've got a thread going with pictures and prices.

Austin

Thanks! We currently are in the Huntsville area, and hope to move to Point Blank. What company did you use? We may be close enough to check them out. I'm just not sure about building it ALL ourselves. A)I don't know if we have all the skills to do from total scratch. B) Don't know if I could convince DH to do that. C) We don't know if that area will allow us to totally build from scratch. But definately something to check into.

katydidagain · #30 08/06/12, 07:05 PM

Shell house vs rehab? Shell sounds great to me. I'm currently looking at old houses in GA--Atlanta area--from far away and basements scare me there. Who knows what evil lurks beneath the house? I keep trying to buy gutted shells and my agent there keeps discouraging me. STUPID! Who wants someone else's "kinda renovation"? Not me. (The latest I'm considering was rehabbed in 1970--can you say aluminum wire? (House built in 1938!))

Go for it! And post copious pictures from start to finish!