Help with finding a shot deer???

froebeli · #1 12/04/14, 04:29 PM

As suggested by another HT member, I am posting my experience for others and myself to learn from. We all know mistakes are made, so lets keep this helpful for all.

Had a deer present itself at about 75 yards broadside. The brush was high on the deer's body but I thought a high shoulder shot... should be a kill shot. ( maybe first mistake?) Would not have taken it if I felt it wasn't.

Deer jumped up like a bronco with all legs in the air and the body drawn up. Ran for 20 yards and disappeared.

Waited for 20 mins and went looking where I saw him last.(by 5:15 it was after sunset) 25 mins after the shot I found where I saw him last and found a good blood trail. Followed it til I came to this:

Followed the trail more and thought about stopping and waiting til morning. A doe came over the hill then and it was pretty dark. Saw it was a doe and eventually it moved on with several other deer, but too dark to tell what. Walked to the top of the rise where I saw the doe and stopped. Blood trail had thinned out a lot.

Next morning went back and about 10 yards or less found what looked like where the deer laid down (smeared blood). Did circles around this spot to find more blood and found one pencil eraser sized drop about 4 feet away. ( I have helped a friend, once, track a deer with this size blood drops for more than an hour... but that's my tracking experience) DH tried to help but is color blind(not much help)

We searched in every direction for the next 3 hours, circling and walking creek bottoms and 100's of yards in different directions through heavy wooded ground.

So let's start the discussion on what to do next time... I was heartsick that I couldn't find this one (my first ever not found in my seven years hunting)

1shotwade · #2 12/04/14, 05:42 PM

Dark rich blood indicates arterial blood so there's a good chance you didn't connect to the lungs. A shoulder shot is almost always fatal unless he was quartered to or away to some degree and you only got one shoulder.The reaction of the deer when you shot said "dead deer' I've never failed to recover after seeing that jump and kick thing that they do.
I always give a deer 1/2 to 1 hour before tracking but with the indicators you had I think you should have been OK.What I do is "stalk" the blood trail. Many times you can come upon the bedded deer and finish the job or while you are on the blood trail get the chance at another deer. This happens to me a lot. This year opening day as a matter of fact. I understand it was dark but staying silent could have allowed you to get to see him bedded and in the dark if he was not head down I would have backed out and give him time to bleed out or at least stiffen up.
Two things to keep in mind. An injured animal will almost always try to go back to where they came from because it was "safe" at that time. If you know which way he came from you may be able to at least find him and see just what went on between him and the projectile. Next deer spooked or injured will most likely use an established trail as an escape route. It's the path of least resistance and they are familiar with it.

Punching through brush is sometimes a risky shot but you rarely get a perfect shot so it's just a judgement call.Only you know how you feel about taking that shot. I would have likely done the same thing.Same thing with the distance. You know your capabilities. That's not a long shot for someone that is experienced with firearms but did "buck fever' creep in? I've had it happen to me on a doe that was so bad it took me three times trying to stand up I was shaking so bad. Everyone experiences it sometime.And of course the weapon you were using plays a role in determining how far out you should be shooting.

I don't see much i would have done different. The biggest thing I see is giving them enough time to lay there and bleed out.I stuck a doe once and new I had hit her high so waited an hour to start tracking. The blood trail was a foot wide.I ended up kicking her out of the bed and backed off till morning and trailed her out to a dead end. Never did recover her. The bed must have had a gallon of blood in it. It was a five foot circle of nothing but blood. Sometimes stuff just happens.

I wish I could tell you how to find this but there is a documented case of a deer being shot on a military base in VA. The guy didn't give it enough time to bleed out and ended up kicking it up. With help from the military they tracked the deer and recovered in on a different military base. The blood trail was 8.7 MILES !

Wade

froebeli · #3 12/04/14, 06:53 PM

Okay.. I will try to respond in colors. [/COLOR]Dark rich blood indicates arterial blood so there's a good chance you didn't connect to the lungs. A shoulder shot is almost always fatal unless he was quartered to or away to some degree and you only got one shoulder.The reaction of the deer when you shot said "dead deer' I've never failed to recover after seeing that jump and kick thing that they do.
The deer was definitely broadside. One son thought it was a liver shot and I guess it could have been. I was shaking pretty bad.

I always give a deer 1/2 to 1 hour before tracking but with the indicators you had I think you should have been OK.What I do is "stalk" the blood trail. Many times you can come upon the bedded deer and finish the job or while you are on the blood trail get the chance at another deer. This happens to me a lot. This year opening day as a matter of fact. I understand it was dark but staying silent could have allowed you to get to see him bedded and in the dark if he was not head down I would have backed out and give him time to bleed out or at least stiffen up.

I was trying NOT to come on it bedded. I stopped and almost left several times, then the doe came over the ridge and I thought it was this buck (yes it was a nice one) She stayed forever and then flagged and went on, along with several others. I then figured if the injured deer was near it went off with them. Walked to where the doe was and stopped all tracking til morning.

Two things to keep in mind. An injured animal will almost always try to go back to where they came from because it was "safe" at that time. If you know which way he came from you may be able to at least find him and see just what went on between him and the projectile. Next deer spooked or injured will most likely use an established trail as an escape route. It's the path of least resistance and they are familiar with it.

Punching through brush is sometimes a risky shot but you rarely get a perfect shot so it's just a judgement call.Only you know how you feel about taking that shot. I would have likely done the same thing.Same thing with the distance. You know your capabilities. That's not a long shot for someone that is experienced with firearms but did "buck fever' creep in? I've had it happen to me on a doe that was so bad it took me three times trying to stand up I was shaking so bad. Everyone experiences it sometime.And of course the weapon you were using plays a role in determining how far out you should be shooting.

I was shooting a Remington model 700 .243 my Dad gave me when I first started hunting. And yes, "buck fever" probably played a role, as it was the biggest deer I ever shot at, although probably not the biggest I have seen (passed on a quartering away shot my first tow or three on a big buck I didn't think would be a clean kill). Still thought it would be a good kill shot though, not a pot luck one.

I don't see much i would have done different. The biggest thing I see is giving them enough time to lay there and bleed out.I stuck a doe once and new I had hit her high so waited an hour to start tracking. The blood trail was a foot wide.I ended up kicking her out of the bed and backed off till morning and trailed her out to a dead end. Never did recover her. The bed must have had a gallon of blood in it. It was a five foot circle of nothing but blood. Sometimes stuff just happens.

1shotwade · #4 12/04/14, 07:13 PM

Quartering away is by far my prefered presentation.There are so much of the vitals exposed.A broadside shot it the best for a nice double lunger but other than that it can be risky. I lost a nice buck 6 years ago because i only took out one lung. Found him days later and understood why he escaped the freezer.
I think you " done good". Sometimes "stuff" just happens !
When you get some time walk back over where you think he might have gone. Seeing exactly what happened will help you out in the future.

Wade

froebeli · #5 12/04/14, 07:38 PM

Thanks for the positive encouragement. I really did think I had a good shot and would find him where I last saw him. Dang'd deer are really resilient!!! Here's what I shot a week and 1/2 later and my sons think it might have been him. I don't think that blood blowout I posted would have come from a grazing shot on a front leg, like this deer had. About the size of a quarter on the outside front leg... I'll get a picture of the skin tomorrow. Do you think that came from a front leg above the joint hit?

froebeli · #6 12/04/14, 07:48 PM

I've done quartering away and quartering to shots since that first Big Buck look I passed on several years ago and have taken them all with shots through the lungs/heart. I'm not saying I'm the best shot, but give me a quick presentation at close range (20 to 40 yards) and I haven't missed yet. (knock on wood) ... this one was just more of a challenge I guess, although I didn't think so at the time.

Maybe he's still walking around somewhere, but I don't think so... at least the coyotes, foxes, bears and others will get a meal out of my losses.

1shotwade · #7 12/04/14, 09:07 PM

Was that blood from where he was when you shot him on in the bed or on the blood trail?Just a guess but I'd rather think than would be from the neck or high on the back.If you meant to post a pix it didn't show up.Also, over time you will realize that for some reason bucks are a lot harder to put down and keep down.

Wade

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #8 12/04/14, 10:45 PM

It happens , you do your best practice more , always make sure to sight in before season if groups are just as you want them your good to go hunt

like my grandpa says ," coyote got to eat to"

243 is a capable round on white tail , bullet selection can make some difference most prefer the 90, 95 or 100 gr for deer

a Colman propane lantern is the best thing for looking for blood int eh dark , they sell "blood tracking lights" my cousins bought a few different ones and I have talked to others who have bought them none like them and have all gone back to the Colman lantern

I mark the blood trail , and I keep marking the trail every little ways a role of the fluorescent tape can be helpful with this often if I can see the direction from the trail even if I loose the trail

It has been my experience that gun shot deer that go farther than 2-300 yards of blood trail are not shot well this happens , people flinch , they shake , twigs get in the way , shots are rushed

you practice in the off season and get better at the kind of shot you missed or made poorly so your better next time

75 yards is not a long shot especially with a 243

If I had to guess I would figure you hit it just a little to far back they bleed but they go a long ways , then just stop bleeding some times

froebeli · #9 12/05/14, 07:45 AM

Wade: That blood was from on the trail. He was bleeding really well then had the blowout of blood I pictured, then more good blood trail. The blood trail thinned and I stopped for the night. I probably went 100 yds(could be more or less, but you get the idea) on good blood. Went back the next morning and started again where I left my hat on the last blood and about 20/30 feet later found a smeared blood spot that looked like he laid down. Only one little drop of blood could be found after that. My Dad said he probably clotted and that was it.

Pete: My gun was sighted in before the season. Learned that lesson, before. I'm shooting 80 grain soft points. What Dad gave me along with the gun. Yes, I was shaking. Had a tree to lean against, but I think part of my problem, was that I had too much time to think about it. My first shot, I didn't have a shell chambered. (yeah BIG mistake. It's safe to get into the tree stand without one chambered for both me and the deer... hahahah) Had to load a shell with him standing there looking my direction.

Here is what he looked like. This is the one I got 10 days later. He had been injured on his front leg, but just a grazing shot. I don't think it was the same deer.

froebeli · #10 12/05/14, 07:48 AM

I know I need to practice more, and now that I have a .22 I expect to go squirrel hunting this winter and get more practice with sighting and shooting. Not exactly the same as deer, but I have heard it will help.

Skamp · #11 12/05/14, 09:24 AM

Pete's point about the Coleman lantern is a very good one, they can make a world of difference.

Another old Indian trick is to keep Hydrogen Peroxide in a spritzer bottle. Is that blood, or is that just a spot on that leaf? A shot of Peroxide will bring the blood, even dried blood, to a boil.

**alleyyooper** · #12 12/05/14, 12:13 PM

I also recommend a Coleman 2 mantel gas lantern. Better than any light that I have seen that is hand held.

Al

JoePa · #13 12/05/14, 02:17 PM

I think a .243 with 80 gr is about the bottom end for deer - my grandsons starting hunting and they used a .243 but they did hit a couple deer and never got them - me I'd use something a little heavier - like a .270 maybe - at least use a heavier bullet with the .243 -

If you hit a deer and it takes off - I would trail it for only a short distance - if it keeps going I would wait for any hour or more or come back in the morning - the deer will want to hide and lay down somewhere - my following it you will only it kick up and it will run further - I know how you feel -

kycrawler · #14 12/05/14, 10:22 PM

The blood you posted wasn't a liver shot. Liver blood is almost black . The 243 is a great deer rifle for a seasoned hunter but I still prefer a 30 cal rifle with 150 gr or heavier bullets

**alleyyooper** · #15 12/06/14, 11:24 AM

I love my 243 with hand loaded 85gr.HPBT Sierra game king bullets. Shot placement in the vitals and the deer drop in their tracks.

I likes the 260 6.5 MM Remington also but I feel the ammo is to expensive to buy for them when a 7MM 08 is just dandy for recoil sensitive persons.

Even with a 105 MM cannon if you don't hit them in a vital area they are going to run off.

Al

tarbe · #16 12/06/14, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kycrawler

The blood you posted wasn't a liver shot. Liver blood is almost black . The 243 is a great deer rifle for a seasoned hunter but I still prefer a 30 cal rifle with 150 gr or heavier bullets

I understand that a gun given by a loved-one is special...but I am with kycrawler on this.

You can certainly kill deer with the .243, but at the very least, use a 100gr Corelokt or similar.

Personally, I believe a 308 with a good 150 or 165gr bullet will serve the average deer hunter better, especially on large deer like in your picture!

The debate on the 243 for deer has raged for decades. I believe it is more suited for an expert, who can really pick their shots, not us regular folks.

tarbe · #17 12/06/14, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alleyyooper

I love my 243 with hand loaded 85gr.HPBT Sierra game king bullets. Shot placement in the vitals and the deer drop in their tracks.

Al

haha...just because you can do it, doesn't mean the rest of us can!

Use Less · #18 12/06/14, 11:40 AM

In my area there are some seasoned hunters, and a group who train search dogs, who are happy to help someone who knows the deer is hit soundly but not found. The man who taught my safety course was one such; he gave out his number at the end of the course.

froebeli · #19 12/06/14, 01:22 PM

Thanks for the info on the Coleman lantern. Since I tend to hunt mostly evening, this may come in handy sometime in the future.

Thanks also for the thoughts on gun and bullet choice. Up until this deer, I have put them down in 50 yds or less. Shot placement does count. The deer pictured was taken with the same gun at 20ish yards and ran less than 50 yds. A heart shot does do that.

Things I have learned:

Make sure you have a good shot. (thought I did)

Wait to track no matter how big the deer is and stop EARLY in the tracking (no matter how little sleep you'll get that night)

Use a coleman lantern after dark.

Hydrogen peroxide can help in determining blood from other "stuff" when tracking.

Consider a bigger grain bullet or larger caliber rifle. (most of my deer have been taken with my .50 caliber muzzleloader during the muzzleloader season)

Thanks all!!! Keep the ideas coming. You're never too old or seasoned to learn something.

MichaelZ · #20 12/06/14, 03:59 PM

My guess is that the bullet hit a branch and deflected a bit. Then it passed through broadside below the spine and above the lungs. A deer hit like this will bleed somewhat, but then sometimes recover. Otherwise, if it was a lung shot, I would think for sure you would have found it unless it hid itself really well. But if the deer recovers, you won't ever find it.