steel shot

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

it has been a long time since i did any duck or goose hunting , well since last time i bought a conservation patrons license 20 years ago

what steel or other non lead shot are you using , and what choke

I have a Mossy with 28 inch barrel 2 3/4 or 3 inch and accu choke

do you choke it more or less

the gun only came with the MOD choke so i can pattern that but I am wondering what your finding patterns the best

also open to ammo suggestions

I have shot lots of deer but very few birds that weren't clay

but my son is 11 and taking hunters ed in a few weeks and salivating over every duck he kicks up out on the river.

he is running a 20ga mossy with 2 3/4 or 3 and a 26 inch barrel he has a imp cyl and a full ,I am going to need ammo and a proper choke for him also

[alleyyooper]

My Ithaca model 37 is a mod choke so is fine with steel shot.

Al

[K-9]

For early season goose, I shoot Kent FastSteel 3" in BBs I use an improved cylinder choke out of my 870, for wood duck and teal I shoot 3" #4 steel. Later in the season, I switch to #2 steel for ducks stay with the BBs for decoying geese, use Remington Hevi shot #2s right now for pass shooting geese with a Carlson's modified extended choke. Steel shot patterns a tighter than lead out of a given choke but doesn't have the weight of lead obviously so you have to shoot larger shot to get adequate penetration. The heavi shot is good but very expensive the only reason I am able to afford to shoot it is a couple of years back I went into a store that was closing it out and bought all they had for an insanely low price, when it is gone, I will go back to steel BBs unless I find another deal. Generally speaking don't plan on shooting Canada Geese at much past 30 yards with steel and closer is better. There are some who take longer shots but the performance gets iffy on the steel at farther ranges, Federal Black Cloud gives you a few more yards and hevi shot extends it or beyond lead shot ranges.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I talked with a co-worker today who does a fair amount of duck hunting , he said he liked the Kent fast steel also , his other favorite was black cloud but he said be ready for the recoil as black cloud recoils like nothing else apparently

[wogglebug]

Birds see colours, mammal's eyes don't work the same way. You can't get away with blaze orange, not even blaze camo, when bird-hunting. your camo for birds needs to be a pattern and colour that doesn't look out of place where you are when you are. That includes a face mask rather than having a shiny pink blob looming up at the passing traffic. Of course, if your face isn't pink, that's not as much of an issue.

[K-9]

Black Cloud is good stuff and I shoot it when I can get a deal on it but Kent does a good job and is usually quite a bit cheaper than Black Cloud, I am still shooting some 3 1/2" Black Cloud that I bought for 7 dollars a box at a sporting goods store that was going out of business. I asked the guy what he wanted for it and he said how much and I said all of it and he shot me a price, I don't think he realized there were as many boxes there as there were or maybe he just wanted rid of it. I only use it during the late season though, generally when the birds aren't decoying as well and your shots are a little farther out. But it does the trick if you get the birds in the pattern.

[Nimrod]

It's been a while since I hunted waterfowl so I am not up to speed on the latest nontoxic loads.

Steel shot does not deform or compress like lead. The pattern won't open as fast so use a more open choke. If the one gun is fixed modified you have no choice. Pattern the other one and I bet you will get satisfactory patterns using an Improved cylinder.

The pellets don't have the same mass as lead so use a size or 2 bigger to get the energy downrange. I used to use #4 for teal, #2 or BB for mallards, and T or F for geese.

Steel pellets slow down faster because they don't have the mass and you are using bigger pellets with more wind resistance. This limits the range that you can get a clean kill to shorter than lead. I would use steel for the first part of the season or if you are getting migrants to decoy in close. Save the expensive heavy shot type loads for the days you are getting long range shots.

Some older guns will be damaged by steel shot loads. These are usually guns with fixed full chokes. Contact the manufacturer and verify your gun will handle the steel.

I got stuck with about 40 pounds of #2 lead when they went to steel shot. I am not using it up fast enough by hot gluing it to the bottom of the Cub Scouts Soapbox Derby racers once a year to bring them up to weight. Guess I will have to wait for TEOTWAWKI, when they are not enforcing the regs, to start loading it up for hunting again.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I was digging around in my ammo and found i had 2 boxes of #2 steel shot 2 3/4

these are old one box was 5.97 marked on it the other 9 dollars something but i know that box was given to me

I figured we were headed to the range i would pattern them and see what it looked like , I would really like to be able to shoot 30 yards so that is were set my cardboard the mod choke in my mossy left a few holes big enough to place a clay pigeon in have shot all around it and still not hit it , I only have the one choke that came with that gun , just for the heck of it i tried the cylinder bore slug barrel , that opened up more . but i was able to shoot some 7 1/2 lead and break clays with it if i got on them fast they would only split , with the mod choke and 7 1/2 lead I could generally just about dust the clays

I also tried some steel on clays with the mod choke I was able to break them

I broke out the old Ithaca it has a poly choke , I am not sure exactly how accurate the markings are but I started with it on IMP MOD then tried FULL and even tried XFULL the xfull didn't look to bad at 30 yards

I am thinking I should order a xfull for the mossy

[Boo8meR]

Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE

I was digging around in my ammo and found i had 2 boxes of #2 steel shot 2 3/4

these are old one box was 5.97 marked on it the other 9 dollars something but i know that box was given to me

I figured we were headed to the range i would pattern them and see what it looked like , I would really like to be able to shoot 30 yards so that is were set my cardboard the mod choke in my mossy left a few holes big enough to place a clay pigeon in have shot all around it and still not hit it , I only have the one choke that came with that gun , just for the heck of it i tried the cylinder bore slug barrel , that opened up more . but i was able to shoot some 7 1/2 lead and break clays with it if i got on them fast they would only split , with the mod choke and 7 1/2 lead I could generally just about dust the clays

I also tried some steel on clays with the mod choke I was able to break them

I broke out the old Ithaca it has a poly choke , I am not sure exactly how accurate the markings are but I started with it on IMP MOD then tried FULL and even tried XFULL the xfull didn't look to bad at 30 yards

I am thinking I should order a xfull for the mossy

DO NOT order an xfull for your Mossberg or you will be sorely disappointed when you start shooting at waterfowl.

Use your modified choke, it'll be fine. Ducks are a lot larger than a clay pigeon. I've killed countless ducks with a modified choke through a 12 gauge with a 28" barrel. You'll be just fine.

Guys like Kents because they're cheap. They also pattern worse. Cut one open and have a quick look at the uniformity of the pellets. Then consider that has a direct effect on flight pattern. There are no tried and true formulas for what to shoot as far as load and choke for waterfowl; but, anyone who does this seriously (present company included - I've guided, hunted all over the country, and have a fairly extensive waterfowling 'resume' if you will) will tell you that your first step back into the game should not be with an extra full choke through a 28" barrel. You will be kicking yourself when you either miss or finally connect and realize there's no meat left.

If you have further questions, please don't hesitate to ask. This is one of my very few areas of knowledge and since I'm taking knowledge and education hand over fist from everyone on this board, I feel it's my duty to share what I know on this topic. For a good starting point, K-9's info is pretty solid.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

so shell out the 21 dollars and buy a box of 3 inch black cloud and run them through the mod choke and go get me some ducks

I am really a single projectile guy , I was figuring I wanted a 18-24 inch pattern at 30-40 yards with no more than an inch and a half hole any where

I remember trying early goose season 20 some years ago they used to call nuance goose with these #2 2-3/4 Remington waterfowl shells through a mod choke I would shoot those geese , I could even tell i hit them as they sometimes would drop 10 feet then start flying again , very frustrating . I used 2 because some oen told me you use 2 for duck and geese they probably meant 2 lead but steel was still new at the time then after i ran though a box of that with no geese i gave up then some one told me you have to shoot them in the head now to make the steel work , so that is what i was thinking with needing a tight patter the head can't slip though

what size do you recommend for early goose and what size for duck

[Boo8meR]

Originally Posted by GREENCOUNTYPETE

so shell out the 21 dollars and buy a box of 3 inch black cloud and run them through the mod choke and go get me some ducks

I am really a single projectile guy , I was figuring I wanted a 18-24 inch pattern at 30-40 yards with no more than an inch and a half hole any where

I remember trying early goose season 20 some years ago they used to call nuance goose with these #2 2-3/4 Remington waterfowl shells through a mod choke I would shoot those geese , I could even tell i hit them as they sometimes would drop 10 feet then start flying again , very frustrating . I used 2 because some oen told me you use 2 for duck and geese they probably meant 2 lead but steel was still new at the time then after i ran though a box of that with no geese i gave up then some one told me you have to shoot them in the head now to make the steel work , so that is what i was thinking with needing a tight patter the head can't slip though

what size do you recommend for early goose and what size for duck

Early goose tend to decoy a lot closer - most of them are traveling in smaller family groups and the juveniles are literally months old and have seen very few (if any) hunters. You can honestly get by with 2's; but, that's going to depend on your decoy spread and your calling ability. If you think either of these are lacking, I'd go with B. I'd never hunt geese with T or F, it isn't needed with today's high velocity offerings of BB and BBB.

I'm not saying you need to shell out any more money for Black Cloud, either. Just buy a few different boxes and figure out which one patterns best through your gun. In the end, you can probably use them all, effectively, you just may have better results with some than others. All guns are a bit different and you truly do need to figure out what your gun likes the best. It's no different than load development for a rifle, save that the rounds are commercially made and you're just trying to match one to your weapon.

You can kill geese without shooting them in the head. I killed a Canada on opening day of 2007 in Webster, SD from 52 (measured) yards and it was 3' off the ground and flying away. The pellets went in through the back and penetrated the vitals. Load was a 3 1/2" Black Cloud BB, if it's of any concern, although, I'm convinced a similarly PATTERNED round of similar velocity and size would have worked.

Let your gun and some patterning sheets tell you what to use, not some guys on the internet!

[1shotwade]

I use 3" steel in #4 backed by #2 and the third round in BB for duck. For goose I'll shoot BB the BBB and the third round in Ts.Most people will tell you to open up your choke. I found for me shooting "steel-full" is the best. I don't have a problem getting a tight pastern on a duck or goose. My failure is not being smart enough in the heat of battle to figure out the bird is out of range!Even with dove hunting I shoot a "turkey full" and have more that once dropped 15 for 19 shots.I tried tightening up my steel but that's a big mistake. First you will were a choke out shooting steel and secondly with steel when you get too tight it blows out the center of your pastern. That's all fine and good if you're having an off day and not getting down on your target but when things are right you're leaving a gaping hole in the center of the pastern that should say "dead Bird" instead it's "by by bird . Bye the way,the reason I am still shooting steel is I'm just too tight to spend the big bucks for the other stuff. I went to a WM years ago just after season and found their steel shot marked down to $4 a box so grabbed a half dozen. When they rang up it said $2 so I told the clerk. His response was"the computer is always right" soooooo, I wiped them out to the tune of about 40 boxes,and I'm still shooting on that!


Wade

[K-9]

Greencountypete, do not shoot steel through your Ithaca if it is an older model 37 as steel will damage the barrel. Your Mossberg with the screw in chokes should be fine. As far as your pattern issues, I am guessing you will be very surprised when you try newer steel loadings, it sounds like yours are fairly old based on the pricing, the newer shells have improved greatly through wad design, buffers etc.

Also with the difference in the #2s vs 7 1/2s remember that you have almost 3 times as many pellets in a load of 7 1/2s as you do #2s so naturally your pattern is going to be fuller but each pellet has less energy but the extra pellets hitting the target is why you "powder" the clays with the 7 1/2s

Also with "traditional" steel when goose hunting (Canadas), I figure 2 shots per bird, one to knock it down and one to finish it on the ground, I don't see this so much with the Black Cloud, Hevi-steel, or Hevi shot so this offsets the added cost of the ammo to a degree because you are firing fewer rounds.

[hawgsquatch]

Speed kills. Steel flies so much faster I think it mitigates the leading problems when shooting fast ducks like teal. I love the way steel shot kills ducks. I use #5 2&3/4 standard loads for all my ducks over decoys. I use #3 shot 3" for Aleutian geese and #1 or bb for honkers. Kent and Estate are very good as well as Active when I can get them.

I use an improved cylinder over dekes and a steel shot tube for geese out to 40 yards. I don't shoot much past that, but where I hunt I don't need to.

Beware of using too tight a choke, because the pellets will compress and deform and it will actually create bigger holes in the pattern than a less restrictive choke would.

[moonwolf]

Anyone try Winchester hex shot shells?