Please evaluate 12 gauge pruchase and give advice on loads

mooman · #1 09/27/09, 01:29 PM

I have been dealing with a poultry killing dog and a fox. Need finally overcame my frugality and I bought a 12 gauge at a gun show last weekend.

Remington 870 (modified choke)
Serial: X1070##M

Good condition except for some wear on slide and stock and some small rust spots on barrel.

I paid $200 with the tax. Good buy or not? There were a couple others for a little less, but this was the cheapest 870 I could find.( FYI the one next to it , also a remington 870 had a serial number of only 4,000 and was 30 dollars more)

I need loads for medium sized varmints. Shot will be from between 75 and 150yds. I assume the "light game loads" I have won't have the energy needed at that range. I know very little about shotguns and loads for them.

Loads I've seen available are heavy game, buckshoot and slugs. The shot will possibly have to be taken while the varmint is in pursuit of bird (need to know spread at distances mentioned).

How much to I lead fox going full speed at 125yds?

Thanks all

CSA again · #2 09/27/09, 02:07 PM

Very good pick on the 870 ... one of the best pump action shootguns out there
the older ones seem to be better quility.
200 is a good price i would think.

150 yard shots with a shotgun... you will need a slug. Shot is not effective at that range.
With oo buck about 80 yards is the longest shoot I would take with most shotguns. and thats pushing it.
I have found shells with a mix of OO and #4 together. as well as #4 and #6 mixed , these hold good patterns and extend the range that is effective.

I would buy a box of slugs . a box of OO buck, and a box of #4. Then set up targets at 25 , 50 , and 100 yards to see how your gun patterns with each load and range.
most all guns patteren a little diffrent.
Use the biggest target you can come up with. ( so you can see and count all the shot ) and aim at a very small bullseye in the center.
The 100 yard target a 4' x 8' sheet of plywood would be a good size target. Cover with paper so you can tell the new holes from the old ones.
You need to know your own gun and what IT will do.... not what everyone else will say.

zant · #3 09/27/09, 02:46 PM

I have to be honest about this.Unless you have a slug barrel,a 100yd shot that kills-NOT wounds,will require a LOT of practice....Buy a H&R single shot in whatever caliber you like.I have shot a long time and am a NRA certified trainer and I would'nt attempt this with a shotgun unless it was a dire emergency.Just my opinion.

Ed Norman · #4 09/27/09, 02:53 PM

It looks like if you are using a slug at 1600 fps, sighted for 25 yards, you will need to hold 4.5" high and lead the running fox 141". Shouldn't be any problem at all for an incredible marksman.

Or you could get a cheap single shot rifle like zant suggests and make your life much easier.

Bearfootfarm · #5 09/27/09, 04:43 PM

Quote:

between 75 and 150yds.

You need a rifle

Pops2 · #6 09/27/09, 05:37 PM

depending on what's cheaper for you, get it threaded for choke tubes or get a threaded barrel. buy semi custom extra full turkey/coyote tubes. then pattern using BBB, T, F & #4 buck in lead & heavi shot loads. when you find the choke/load combo the gun likes best (tight dense pattern at 80yds) stock up on it. dedicated coyote hound hunters up north use these set ups to take running yotes as far as 100yds.
another option is to buy a cylinder bore riot gun barrel and flechette loads which are also deadly out to 100yds.

foxfiredidit · #7 09/27/09, 06:04 PM

You didn't mention what type of choke you have. I'm assuming that it is more than likely a "modified" choke. You probably need a "full" choke configuration for what you want to do. If you're going with what you have, then it might be better to hold off the 150 yard shots. Get better at getting closer to your game. Shoot them out to 75 yards with 00, 000, or number 4's. Still, you're going to have to practice with it. Just because it's a scatter gun doesn't mean it doesn't take some skill to operate it effectively. You make want to get it fitted for the internal chokes that are interchangable and like I said, use the full choke.

Congrats on the 870. I'm still using the one I got in '61.......an 870 Wingmaster. The action is still smooth as silk, but because I diminished the "modified" choke it came with by killing deer with buckshot for about 20 years, I now have it fitted with choke tubes that are interchangable. Now just get some ammo and warm up that barrell. Every now and then, don't forget to kill something and eat it.

dngrous · #8 09/27/09, 06:11 PM

I'm going to go with the "buy a rifle" crowd... Even a .22LR will do plenty in the way of varmint control, especially when used with a good hollow point round.

But, after checking prices on rifles lately, I'd suggest getting something like a Mossberg 100 ATR. I bought one a couple years ago for $300, 3-9x40 scope included. I got mine chambered in .270 Win, and it'll easily take down anything in this state that weighs more than me, unless it has claws. (meaning bear, but I don't hunt bear, and they aren't really prevalent in the area.)

Compare the $300 to the $250 you'd spend on a Ruger 10/22 carbine, and I'd go with the firepower. Although, if I could get my fiancee to agree, I'd have one of each.

mooman · #9 09/27/09, 10:27 PM

Thank you guys. really nice advice. I was guessing at distance in the op (might be shorter, need to pace it off). I will purchase some buckshot and give it a try on some targets. I did get a box of slugs, but will have to save up if I want to practice much with those.

I have a .22LR with a decent scope and may use that instead depending on the results of some target practice and the situation. But with that being my only firearm figured the shotgun was the next one to get as far as versatility.

Thank you again.

dngrous · #10 09/28/09, 09:56 AM

You can never have too many...

jross · #11 09/28/09, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooman

Thank you guys. really nice advice. I was guessing at distance in the op (might be shorter, need to pace it off). I will purchase some buckshot and give it a try on some targets. I did get a box of slugs, but will have to save up if I want to practice much with those.

I have a .22LR with a decent scope and may use that instead depending on the results of some target practice and the situation. But with that being my only firearm figured the shotgun was the next one to get as far as versatility.

Thank you again.

Check Cabelas, Redhead, or a sporting goods store like Dick's. If your gun has a ventilated rib (flat metal strip on the top of the barrel), you can buy adjustable sights to mount on the rib for the slugs.

mooman · #12 09/28/09, 02:39 PM

It does have the ventilated rib, good deal, would never have known that. Is that what the rib is actually there for, or is using it for sight mounting just a bonus?

WstTxLady · #13 09/28/09, 03:28 PM

I have hunted canine predators for several years & a slug is useless for them. As for the distance you mentioned, a shotgun isnt made for that. There are a couple options that will help tighten the pattern & retain accuracy. Some #4 will be cheaper also. Skip the steel & get lead. Great deal on the gun, have one myself.

Dead coyote choke tube & ammo. Most hunting supply places/site have it...Cabelas, Midway USA, etc...here are some sites to give you an idea.

choke tube:
http://www.cabelas.com/p-0041021228297a.shtml
ammo:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...link&cmCat=CRR

Midway USA has some great stuff & are a great site to order from also.
http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/Brow...x?brandid=2266
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=841438

As for the .22, up close (under 80 yrs or so) it should be ok but they arent always dependable. Go for a .17 HMR, they are a step up from a .22 but as deadly as a bigger caliber rifle but with less kick & noise.

**GREENCOUNTYPETE** · #14 09/28/09, 04:41 PM

i use a scoped 12 ga with slugs for deer i use the winchester 15 pack standard 2 3/4 rifled slugs in a smooth modified choke barrel 28 inch it looks od but it will put slugs in a group at 100 yards from a bench about 3-4 inches low i shoot deer out that far butnot running and a fox is a lot smaller than a deer i have never etemped to shoot a running fox with a slug i have seen others in my hunting party try this is why they did not hit it from my calculations below

5280 divided by 60 secnds = 88 feet per second = to 60 mph so figuring the top speed of a fox about 20 mph 88 fps/3= 29.3 fps and 300 feet /1500fps =.2 seconds for the slug to get there
29.3 fps X .2 seconds = 5.86 feet

so with a slug one should expect a 1500 fps avg speed and a lead of 5.86 feet

obviosly the chances of hitting it would be better if you had a faster round say .223 at 3000 fps
29.3 x.1 = 2.93 feet but still not great but this is why most people who varmint hunt regularily use .223 or other 22 or 25 caliber rounds for thier flat fast tragectory
low recoil and fast follow up shots

gwhilikerz · #15 09/28/09, 06:27 PM

Use the shotgun out to about 50 yds (no farther and that is actually stretching the sure kill) with #4's. Slugs and buckshot will be about the same distance if you are not equipped with a sight. 75-80 yds tops with the 22 and then only if you can guarantee a head shot. A 22 thru the lungs of a dog will kill it, but it takes what seems like an eternity and the howling is excruciating. If you are going to shoot at running critters use the shotgun w/#4's and get close.

oakwoods201 · #16 09/28/09, 09:09 PM

DH says that #4 or #5 turkey load will do the job.

Bearfootfarm · #17 09/28/09, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Is that what the rib is actually there for, or is using it for sight mounting just a bonus?

The rib is to help cool the barrel.
Sights are a fringe benefit

NJ Rich · #18 09/29/09, 01:03 PM

If you can get within 40 yards then turkey loads may surfice. If you have to shoot further I would try #4 buckshot. This load carries several more shot than OO Buck. You may get 60 or 70 yards out of them. I would be prepared for a quick second or third shot. Forget slugs if you don't have a slug barrel.

A .22 at ranges you are accurate shooting at would do but I wouldn't want to wound an animal. I don't think you mentioned if the dog that is klling your chickens maybe someones pet . If so or not sure you certainly don't want the animal running home wounded. Shoot, Shovel and Silence is in order none the less.

BTW: A Remington 870 is a very good reliable shotgun.

You do have a right to protect your property in my humble opinion. NJ Rich