Attention veggrower!

[lonelyfarmgirl]

As I read post after post, day after day, I am beginning to see what you do for a living on a more thourough scale.
could you, or would you post photos of your operation?
maybe talk more about how you do it?

If you are doing this mostly alone, and 17 acres, how do you plant it all? do you plant an acre of lettuce, one plant at a time, all yourself? that must be 100,000 individual plants!

you said on one post you planted 15,000 asparugus crowns last year. You did each and every one by hand? If it took you one minute per crown, and you never stopped, that would take you 10.41 days straight!?!

how do you harvest 10,000 tomato plants on a daily basis? or dig up 5,000 potatoe plants to find the tubers?

how do you handle pest issues?
does it take you hours to 'walk the morning rounds'?

do you have a farmers market, pick-yer-own, or csa? you mentioned packing boxes onto a truck. to where?

what you are doing, is where I want to be. I am starving for your experience information!

[seedspreader]

I am not VG, nor do I play him on TV...

But he posted his website on another post:
http://www.singingpigfarm.com/

I believe he uses automated planting, but can't be sure. I am interested in hearing from him also!

[veggrower]

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

As I read post after post, day after day, I am beginning to see what you do for a living on a more thourough scale.
could you, or would you post photos of your operation?
maybe talk more about how you do it?

If you are doing this mostly alone, and 17 acres, how do you plant it all? do you plant an acre of lettuce, one plant at a time, all yourself? that must be 100,000 individual plants!

you said on one post you planted 15,000 asparugus crowns last year. You did each and every one by hand? If it took you one minute per crown, and you never stopped, that would take you 10.41 days straight!?!

how do you harvest 10,000 tomato plants on a daily basis? or dig up 5,000 potatoe plants to find the tubers?

how do you handle pest issues?
does it take you hours to 'walk the morning rounds'?

do you have a farmers market, pick-yer-own, or csa? you mentioned packing boxes onto a truck. to where?

what you are doing, is where I want to be. I am starving for your experience information!

I direct seed everything except the tomatoes/eggplants/peppers. Those I contract with a nursery to grow into 2" pots. I have a 4-row vacuum seeder that allows me to plant everything from the smallest herb seeds to fava beans. In row spacing from 1.5" up to 6 ft. It is 3 pt mount, pto driven. I plant with my tractor in 7th gear putting along at about 1500rpm, so I'm probably going 5-6mph when I seed.

All of the lettuce I grow, with the exception of romaine, is planted very closely for harvest as baby leaves for spring mix. I set the seeder to drop one seed every 1.5" then set the seeder to slightly overseed. I use over 8# of lettuce seed/year at about 450kseeds/lb.

Asparagus--yes, 15,000. If you know what an orchard bin looks like, they came in 3 orchard bins as ddi the 1000 rhubarb.Planted with a mix of machine and man. I prepped the soil with the tractor. I bought a "middle-buster" or potato plow at the local farm center for $140. I put it on my tractor and used it to cut 12" deep trenches. My rows are 900 feet long and I cut 3 trenches for the rhubarb, 12 for the asparagus and 1 spare just in case in about 15 minutes. My 62hp tractor doesn't even know it is pulling that plow. I just needed to go slow enough that I could steer straight After cutting the trenches the real hand work began. We would get a box of asparagus, drop clumps of roots next to the row every 10-15 feet and then go back and start laying them in the trenches by hand. We put them in at 8-15" spacing, just slapping them into the side of the trench with the crown just under the top of the trench. After I got 1 box in, I would go back with a 48"wide landscape rake.turned upside down and push the soil back into the trench up to a point just below the crown of the asparagus plant. I put my daughter and a neighbor kid to work and we got it done over a period of about 7 days. It wasn't easy but it had to be done.

Either I misspoke or you misread it, but I put in 1,000 tomato plants a year. I don't harvest them daily, I harvest everything with any color 2-3 times/week. I sell to restaurants, and they can't take 100lbs of dead ripe heirloom tomatoes at once. They need them at different degrees of ripeness so the can use dead ripe ones today and let the other ones ripen in the storeroom for use tomorrow and the next day. They need tomatoes with some legs on them-some shelflife.

I don't grow potatoes. I won't until I have the machinery to plant and dig them. If I had 5000 potato plants, I would pay the $3000 or so needed to purchase a 1 row potato digger. Of course I would buy it BEFORE I planted the potatoes so I would know how I needed to plant the rows for efficient harvest. It is a system, seeding affects the harvest, harvest effects the seeding. I won't waste my time and resources on digging an acre or so of potatoes by hand. I have enough work pulling carrots and beets by hand. I will wait until I have the right piece of equipment for the job. BTW,as I write this I realize I would plant them with the middle buster that I used on the asparagus. I used it to cut trenches to plant my tomatoes etc last year and it worked great. The middle buster is also called a potato plow because people use them to dig potatoes. I would rather have an actual digger that will shake the dirt off of them and leave the spuds in a windrow on top of the soil.

Pests--I take very good care of my soil and grow my plants as fast and healthy as possible. A large part of that is precision seeding so the plants have enough space to grow rapidly and without competition. I keep the weeds at bay with regular cultivation. Weeds are insect and disease vectors. Fewer weeds fewer pests. While harvesting, anything I find that is blemished gets tossed. When I am in the field and I see a plant that seems diseased or is covered with bugs, I rogue it out and feed it to my poultry. If disease or insect damage is so bad that it takes too long for me to harvest, I disc it in and replant somewhere else. I don't grow brassicas in May-August because the flea beetles will ruin them. Just common sense management decisions. :baby04:

I have an Allis-Chalmers model "G" cultivating tractor with several different tool bars setup for the different planting schemes I have--4 rows in a bed (most common), 2 rows on the outside (artichokes, broc, cauli, large framed plants that need the space), 1 row down the center (asparagus, rhubarb, tomatoes, peppers, eggplant). Again, it is all part of a PRODUCTION SYSTEM. The tires on the cultivating tractor are set to the same width on center as the tractor I use to plant the beds with. The tools on the cultivaors are set at the same width as the individual drills on my planter, except they come down in between the rows instead of in the rows, they also erase the wheel tracks of the tractors so I get no weeds in mt paths. I can cultivate anywhere from 1/2 to 2 acres/hour with it depending on conditions. For example, I planted 1 acre of carrots last fall--over 1/2 million. I cultivated them 3 times for a total of under 2 hours of work. It only took 3 hours to get the remaining weeds by hand.

Walking my field can take as little as 15 minutes or an hour. Depends on my mood, my schedule, and what I get distracted by.

I only sell to restaurants in a city 70 miles away. I drive the truck myself and make deliveries 3 days/week. If I leave at 1:30pm, I can be back before 6pm, in time to go to town and check my mail and go to the bank. If I leave at 4pm I might not get back until 10:30 or 11 pm and very grumpy

It is 9am, I gotta go to work. Good Growing

[lonelyfarmgirl]

So you only grow brassicas in the winter?
All of this is quite impressive, amazing, and such!
thank you for the info.

[veggrower]

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

So you only grow brassicas in the winter?

Sort of, that post was so long already I took the easy way out. Things I want for salad use--where the leaves need to be perfect I stop growing when the flea beetles show up in April/May. Then I replant them in mid August through mid Sept for harvest Sept thru Feb--at which poin they have frozen out, drowned, started to bolt or I have picked an sold every one.

Things like broc, cauli, kale I will sow in mid July and not worry about the flea beetles because I either just harvest the head, or in the case of kale leaves, they are going to be shredded and cooked so a few holes doesn't matter.

I'll sow the broc cauli kale in April, May, too for early summer harvest.

[dcross]

Originally Posted by veggrower

I direct seed everything except the tomatoes/eggplants/peppers. Those I contract with a nursery to grow into 2" pots. I have a 4-row vacuum seeder that allows me to plant everything from the smallest herb seeds to fava beans.

Care to share info on the seeder?

[Two Cents Worth]

There are many precision seeders on the market, quite a few are the vacuum style as veggrower stated he has.

This company has many kinds and styles and about anything you would need form vegetable production. Geared toward the larger grower however.
http://www.marketfarm.com/

Take a look at a 2007 Johnny's Seed catalog. They have added quite a number and variety of smaller production seeders.

Depending upon where you live and how you grow, i.e. if you need heat from black or other plastic known as plasticulture, you may wish to look at seeders that will plant through plastic that has been laid over beds.

[veggrower]

Originally Posted by dcross

Care to share info on the seeder?

I bought my seeder from market farm implements but I am extremely unhappy with their customer service and I will never buy anything from them again. It is just two brothers so there is no one to complain to when they pull their crap on you, and they will.

There is a company on the West Coast called Sutton Ag that has the same seeder I bought. vacuum seeder

They also have a walk behind one row vacuum seeder.

Johnny's catalog has a lot of seeders but none of them are precision. About the lowest cost precision seeder would be a Stan-Hay belt seeder. I repeat, Johnny's doesn't sell a precison seeder.

My seeder is a 4-row. It is capable of planting the tiniest herb seeds. I just planted miners' lettuce with it--900,000 seeds to the pound and it did a great job. It is capable of planting all the way up to Lima and Fava Beans, although the folks at Market Farm say that is impossible to plant favas with it and they wouldn't even sell me the plates until I lied and told them I was planting limas. Those guys kill me, I spent $13k on this machine and they try to tell me what I can and cannot plant with MY machine in My field in My state 3000 miles from them where they have never been. Can you say arrogant?

It has dual disc openers and V-wheels to cover the seed and tamp it. I can plant at whatever speed I can drive the tractor in a straight line.

[steff bugielski]

where do you live?
steff

[lonelyfarmgirl]

so, veggrower, if you stop planting salad stuff and brassicas from may to sept for the flea bettles, does that mean your restaurant customers are out of luck? and they are cool with this and get supply elsewhere until you are ready again?

how much do you sell your salad stuff to the restaurants for?

If possible could you post a photo of your 13000$ seeder?
thanks

[veggrower]

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

so, veggrower, if you stop planting salad stuff and brassicas from may to sept for the flea bettles, does that mean your restaurant customers are out of luck? and they are cool with this and get supply elsewhere until you are ready again?

how much do you sell your salad stuff to the restaurants for?

If possible could you post a photo of your 13000$ seeder?
thanks

I did not say I stopped planting salad stuff, I said I stopped planting brassicas for salad greens from May to August. BIG DIFFERENCE! Flea bettles don't bother lettuces, spinach, beet greens, chard, chicories and many other salad ingredients.

You asked,"So you only grow brassicas in the winter?" Since you asked a question specifically about brassicas, my answer pertained specifically to brassicas.

Steff, I live in Oregon.

[lonelyfarmgirl]

oh, oops. I didnt realize people bought brassica greens for salad use. except kale, thats a brassica right?

[veggrower]

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

oh, oops. I didnt realize people bought brassica greens for salad use. except kale, thats a brassica right?

Kale is a brassica. I don't use it for salads unless it is very young as the taste is too strong and the leaves to tough to eat raw.

Brassicas for salads: Arugula, mizuna, red mustard,tatsoi etc.

They are all the same family as are radish, pac choi, turnip,canola,rapini. They are all crucifers, if you look at their cotyledens--those 1st 2 leaves that break through the soil formed by the halves of the seeds--they all have the distinctive 4 lobed crucifer shape. Their true leaves look differently, but their cotyledons look the same.

[veggrower]

I need to correct myself, Arugula and radish are not brassicas, but they are still crucifers

mea culpa, mea culpa

[lonelyfarmgirl]

aahhhh. I didn't know. I have heard of all those, but never had them. oh, except turnip greens.
thank you so much for all this wonderful information.

ok, different angle now. you said you take very good care of your soil. would you mind talking about how you do that?

what fertilizer do you use, and when and how do you put it down?
how do you do your crop rotation?
how many sets a year do you do on the same spot?
what do you do to prepare for winter?, etc , etc...

thank you again!

[veggrower]

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

aahhhh. I didn't know. I have heard of all those, but never had them. oh, except turnip greens.
thank you so much for all this wonderful information.

ok, different angle now. you said you take very good care of your soil. would you mind talking about how you do that?

what fertilizer do you use, and when and how do you put it down?
how do you do your crop rotation?
how many sets a year do you do on the same spot?
what do you do to prepare for winter?, etc , etc...

thank you again!

Taking care of the soil is the biggest part of successfully farming sutainably. This covers alot of territory.

1)No chemicals with one exception--this is my 3rd taking ground that has been farmed chemically and converting it to organic. The 1st 2 years I have found the the soil life has been so surpressed by the chemicals that a little chemical fert is needed to get a economically viable crop. The soil is not active enough to convert manure etc fast enough to feed the plants. I use a fraction of what the commercial growers use the 1st year and a fraction of what I used the 1st year during the 2nd year.
Last year was my 2nd year and I used almost no chemical fert. I detected a boron deficiency in August, so I had a cropduster apply 1 pint/acre of 10% boron and, as long as he was flying, 10lbs/acre of a foliar fert of the rapid-gro type. I had this applied twice, 1 in late August and one in Sept.

2)My fertilizer of choice is whatever I can source locally at the least cost. For me that is usually chix manure. I bring it in in 1 ton tote bags for $144/ton pelletized. This product is OMRI listed for application up to the day of harvest. it is 4-3-3-6%Ca-3%S+trace. It is very fast acting, I can see the fertilizer in the leaves within 7 days. I apply it with a spin spreader that holds 800lbs heaped. Last October, I applied 6 tons over 16 acres in about 4 1/2 hours. The company that brings it in has 'power box trailers' they let me use when I buy it through them. They load 2 totebags ata time into the trailer with a froklift. The powerbox has a small diesel engine that augers the material out of the box and into my spreader. It takes just over 1 minute to load 800lbs. Every 2 tons, I make the 8 mile trip into town to get a refill.

This month I also sourced some aged chix manure from a large farm that charges $6/yard delivered and spread. They have 15yd trucks with built in manure spreaders and the spread 15 yards on about one acre. I am going to use this at times this year, also.

I also sourced some organic mushroom compost, 50yd trckloads delivered for $10/yd, I have to spread. This is a much better compost and 2/3 the cost of buying it from a local yard debris recycler.

3)A soil test last fall showed what I already expected. Low NPK, low organic matter, low calcium, low boron, unbalanced CEC. My 5 year goal is to raise the organic matter from just over 2% to just over 5%. No small feat. To raise the organic matter of 1 acre 1% requires the addition of 10tons of organic matter/acre, so to raise it 3% requires 30tons organic matter/acre--540 tons for all of my production acreage. That has to be some very cheap bulk material to do that. I have a plan in place, but that is at least 1 long post in itself.

This is enough for you to digest right now.

[lonelyfarmgirl]

thats great! take your time. I would hate for you to type till you puke. I would like to know about your plan to fix the soil, and how you do your crop rotation. I am patient. thanks again.

[veggrower]

I am just going to try to take a small bite tonight. Soil managemnt is very complex with some many variables interconnecting with so many other variable, it can make your :baby04:

To me, the 2 most important thing an a soil test is the CEC ratios and the %organic matter.

Basics on CEC--(I don't keep all of this stuff in my head. I am reading it off of a soil report)

Cation Exchange Capacity. You want your base saturation to be
greater than 85%, CEC is dealing with the soil cations--Ca, Mg, K,Na,H. You want your CEC satruated with Ca,Mg,K and low in Na and H. Whatever isn't taken by Ca,Mg,K,Na will be taken by H.

The ratio of Ca:Mg:K is very important. You want the ratio to be on this range 65-80%Ca:10-20%Mg;2-6%k. Less than 5% Na and less than 15%H.

Now, once you get your CEC ratio balanced within that range shown above some great things happen. It is now in the optimum range for plant nutrition and health. All of a sudden things make a dramatic shift for the better. Your soil's tilth and texture improve. Too much Mg can cause a chemical bond with the clay in your soil and cause the clay to be tight and soils to crust up and get hard.

It is all about balance.

Organic matter--organic matter in your soil takes many forms. There is living tissues--microbes, fungi earthworms etc. Their bodies all hold a significant amount of a healthy soils organic matter in addition to N which is the building block of protein which is what those bodies are made of. There are dead and decaying tissues--compost or manure you have added, crop residue, weeds you turned under. There is stable humus which gives healthy soil that great crumb structure.

Depending on your soils % organic matter, a ceertain amount of N is released every year from your soils organic matter and that N is made available tot eh plants. Lower organic matter means you need to add more N. When the organic matter hits 5 %, over 100lbs/acre of N is released frome the soils organic matter every year. I don't have the exact number, but it is to the point that very little supplemental N is needed.

What I have found is that when I keep my organic matter over 5%, my CEC is balanced and I have made sure I have ample trace minerals the soil almost goes on autopilot. It is easier to work up. It doesn't crust up or get hard. The weed profile changes. Disease and insect pressure goes down. You plant a seed and you know you are going to get a harvest. Production goes up, your crops weigh more. Your inputs go down because instead of making up for shortfalls, you are just trying to maintain the balance.

I got a soil test last fall and:

%organic matter=2.2% I need to raise it 3% to hit my target of 5+%. To raise the organic matter of 1 acre 1%requires 10 tons of organic matter. So I need to add 30 tons/acre on 18 acres or a total of 540 tons of organic matter I need to add. I need to allow at least 5 years for that. Even if I had the money and equipment to put that much on in one year, 30tons/acre would just gag the soil--too much to digest in one season. I will just have to keep plugging away, doing what I can every year.

Ca is very low. It is only 31% of my CEC and it should be 65-80% Quantified, it is 1384parts per million (ppm) and it should be over 1800ppm. Tied into Ca is pH which is 6.3--just a little low. So I need to lime to add Ca and raise the pH slightly, a few points.

Mg is borderline. It is 10% of my CEC and it should be 10-20%. 251ppm should be 250+ppm, So it is barely at the low end of adequate. A little Mg wouldn't hurt, so I will lime this year with Dolomite which is a lime that has both Ca and Mg.

K is low. Should be 2-6% of CEC it is 3. 260ppm should be 300+

P tested very low. 5 ppm should be 25-40 ppm

N tested low

S tested low 12ppm should be 20+ppm. If I can afford it I will also add gypsum this year. It is a lime that has Ca and S. The extra Ca will help to balance out the Ca:Mg ratio in the CEC.

All of the trace minerals tested adequate with Zn and Fe being very high

Enough for today. I will detail my plan to raise organic matter and balance CEC next time.

Anyone interested should take a look at a book called "The soul of the soil" Can't remember the author's name. It is a primer on soils and doesn't go extremely deep. The authors' bibliography has an extensive list of document and books that you can read to get more info.

[elkhound]

veg...thanks for takeing the time to do all this chatting.i find it very interesting.

[lonelyfarmgirl]

I appreciate your info very mush! So, so you hire someone to come do a soil test for you? how much? then you use that info to apply what needs to be there, or do they tell you what to do?