Garden planning on paper/Seed saving

ItchingDuck · #1 01/28/13, 09:34 PM

Ok, I didn't want to start two thread here (unless I should have?). Anyways, here are a few things I need an anser to.

1. When planning my garden, should I figure out how much produce I need, then figure how much one plant provides, then that will tell me how many plants to plant? We have a large family and use a lot of tomato product here. So it is important to me to have enough to can.

2. How do you save/store your seeds? What do you use to keep them in and where in the home do you keep it?

3. How do you personally plan your gardens? Do you wing it, grow vertically, container garden, etc? I guess the more ideas I can get the more I can find out what will work for me.

I plan on doing raised beds with PVC pipe with drilled holes in it laid about 20" beneath the soil and a fill tube at the top. Maybe not every bed, but I would like to try it and compare results. I also wanted to do a mini hugelkulture to compare that result as well.

Just looking for whatever advice you can impart. Thanks

Callieslamb · #2 01/28/13, 10:30 PM

1. google "expected vegetable yields" and try to find a source of that information from your general area. That will help you know how much. I'm not sure how accurate it is but it will give you some idea. Is your garden space limited? I usually aim to produce too much. Then if it's too dry or too cold or too warm..I can still feed us something.

2. I put mine in envelopes that are inside envelopes that are inside envelopes that are inside plastic tubs. I keep them in our colder basement. I should switch some to the fridge but I have probably one whole fridge full....... I had to divide my groupings of seeds out I have one tub for early veggies one for late. Inside it are large manilla envelopes 1-2 for each veggie. Inside there are envelopes for the earlies, mid and late-season of each veggie that are inside their designated envelopes and I think you get the idea. I have a master list on the computer that always needs updated.

3. I wing it. After 35 years, I know what we need. My problem is more not expending so much energy growing things for our friends. I will always have more tomatoes that we will ever eat, can or sauce. There are too many varieties that I need to taste to not grow as many as possible. I have the room, I can grow how much of whatever I want except corn. I don't give much room to corn. I'm the only one that will eat it so I don't mind letting the guy down the road grow it for me. I don't do containers. I like vertical. It makes teh garden interesting as well as easier the older my back gets. I like trying new things in new ways. I always start 2x as many transplants as I can use - in case of disaster. I have an outline of my gardens space all printed up and I fill it in every year. I rarely follow my plan exactly but there is one. I like hedging the season with plastic tunnels or wax caps. Learning how you like to garden is a process that might take years. Martha Stewart got me started. Square foot caught my eye for a while - but it's too fussy for my style. Dick Raymond gave me some tips that I wouldn't garden without. Now I follow my own book.

ItchingDuck · #3 01/28/13, 11:18 PM

Very helpful and informative. Thank you. I am sketching out my plans right now. I realized that there are so many varieties of tomatoe I wanted to try, but I am controlling myself. I am goinng to keep it manageable. I have a family of 8 to feed and donn't buy anything processed. I like toeat out of the garden so mine will still be a bit large but I plan on companion gardening which should help. Thanks for your input. I need to make sure I store myseeds properlyfor next year. Would hate to ruin them

kudzuvine · #4 01/29/13, 04:06 AM

I put a drawing on paper every year sowing what is plant is planted where (different varities) and when planted. Also writeffirst harvest. Then the next year I know where to plant what in order to rotate.

Waited a little late last year to figure out water irrigation, but we drilled holes in a pvc pipe and placed beside each tomato plant buried about a foot deep and several inches above ground. Plan to do this at time of planting

After my seeds have dried, I store in either old medication bottles (plastic) or make an envelope out of wax paper and store in cool place. Have lots in fridge but afraid if we have a major elec. outage - that could be a problem.

rockhound · #5 01/29/13, 04:45 AM

I have always kept my seeds where it is cool and dry. Some I keep for years with good results. In the envelopes, all in a tin container to keep out stray bugs or rodents.
Too many is better than not enough, so my advice is get lots of seeds to cover failures. If you can re-plant today something the rabbits mowed down, (for instance) you'll be way ahead of having to find or order more seeds, THEN plant them.
KEEP A GOOD LOG or diary of garden goings-on. You'll have most of the answers for next year. Some tomatoes get ripe all at once, some spread out all season. Plant more than you think you'll need, you can sell or give away the extra or trade with a neighbor.

ItchingDuck · #6 01/29/13, 06:39 AM

Good idea, keeping the plan for next year so as to rotate and such.I have a notebook now and finished a rough plan. Today I will buy some graph paper as well as go outside and measure off and make sure everything is going to fit as I visualize it. Also going to finish goinng through the tips thread. Learned a lot of useful info there and taking a lot of notes!
On a side note- bought a cheap grow light at wm last night for $9. Sadly it was all they had. So it looks like we will be starting seeds with three "heat lamps" with grow bulbs in them instead of heat bulbs and one long flourescent grow light. It's a start and I can't wait to get started. A couple years ago I grew some beautiful seedlings just in from of the patio doors. Nothing special done for them at all. Then my cats figured they would use the lettuce flat for a bed and eat the maters. Ugh, I was so frustrated. Any ideas for keeping cats away from the seedlings, or just try to lock them out of the room I am growing them in?

Callieslamb · #7 01/29/13, 06:56 AM

I don't know about cats, but I always raise my transplants on shelves in the basement. I use the long flourescent tubes. The fixtures are more pricey than they used to be but I think, I spent $20 per fixture. I have 5 shelves and 2 lights per shelf. Starting seedlings is my favorite part of gardening. You really don't need 'grow' lights. Regular flourescent tubes will work. I like one warm and one cool. Grow lights are necessary if you want the plants to flower and fruit inside. If you're raising transplants, that isn't necessary. When my transplants get 4-6 inches tall ( speaking tomatoes) I move them outside in a protected container. There's a thread here on that - using clear storage tubs. If they are hardy plants, I move them to the greenhouse. A cold frame is cheap and would help you quite a bit too. Many transplants can be started out there - protecting them from the cat.

I am not much into companion planting. Not against it- it's just too fiddly for me. I did a time with kitchen gardening, a more decorative design kind of gardening. It was a lot of fun, but with a few onions here and there and flowers here and there....it was too hard to keep track of my food and use a weeder. It worked well when I was at 400 sq ft. I use wide row gardening. 3 rows of greenbeans sown close together. or two of broccoli. Lettuces 6-8 inches apart. It takes more fertilizer - my steers and sheep produce plenty and water to do it this way, but I like to think it saves me in weeding time. I like beans next to my tomatoes. The beans' leaf spread helps keep the weeds down.

Your seeds will probably be fine as long as you're replenishing them each year. It's when you have a tomato that doesn't get grown out for 5 years that you start to lose germination problems when they aren't stored better. My onion seeds don't seem to remain viable as long as other seeds.

Have fun with your garden. 8 people are a lot to feed but you can do it.

Peggy · #8 01/29/13, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItchingDuck

Good idea, keeping the plan for next year so as to rotate and such.I have a notebook now and finished a rough plan. Today I will buy some graph paper as well as go outside and measure off and make sure everything is going to fit as I visualize it. Also going to finish goinng through the tips thread. Learned a lot of useful info there and taking a lot of notes!
On a side note- bought a cheap grow light at wm last night for $9. Sadly it was all they had. So it looks like we will be starting seeds with three "heat lamps" with grow bulbs in them instead of heat bulbs and one long flourescent grow light. It's a start and I can't wait to get started. A couple years ago I grew some beautiful seedlings just in from of the patio doors. Nothing special done for them at all. Then my cats figured they would use the lettuce flat for a bed and eat the maters. Ugh, I was so frustrated. Any ideas for keeping cats away from the seedlings, or just try to lock them out of the room I am growing them in?

I have a cat and to keep her from eating the young plants I put chicken wire over the boxes that the plants are in ( also to keep her from trying to use as a litter box!) What I did was put four sticks in each corner and bent the chicken wire over the sticks and down the sides to meet the top of the box. you can fasten the chicken wire to the box if you want to . if you have the seeds in indivi. pots then put the pots in a plastic box.

ItchingDuck · #9 01/29/13, 07:25 AM

Regular flourescent lights work, huh. Think I will take a trip back to wm. The one grow light I have plus the two bulbs will get me 2 longer 4' shop light type fixtures. Yeah, I'm just going to transplant.

Chicken wire... I can tack it to my shelving, and just cage my shelves in. Works for me. Darn cats. Great at getting the mice but also good at getting into anything I want left alone

IowaLez · #10 01/29/13, 07:44 AM

I tape together sheets of graph paper and plan my 6,000 sq ft garden on it, at one square on paper per sq foot of dirt. I also keep a detailed log of all garden activities and events, and weather, including writing down all the vegetable variety names I bought or planted, plus how much money I've spent with what gardening company. I find my prior years' logs to be an invaluable reference item. I began keeping a log 4 years ago, after gardening for many years without one. When I moved to a new climate, Iowa vs NorCal, I had to begin keeping one to figure out the new garden knowledge I had no clue about. In the upper margin of each page of the log I write single words to note what content is on that page for easy speed skimming. "freeze", "mulched", "harvested garlic" and so forth.

ItchingDuck · #11 01/29/13, 08:05 AM

It sounds like the recurring theme here is taking detailed notes. That is good. I am a list maker, I research things to death. I plan and plan and plan. Then I plan some more. I love notes, love looking back and making comparisons. I'm glad because I enjoy doing those things.
Now to get more graph paper

I am very excited to start this season. I finally have my homestead, been planning my garden for a few years since I couldn't do very much else at the time due to circustances. I can't wait for spring

Homesteader · #12 01/29/13, 09:26 AM

Have you checked out the thread on the 90%ers? This is a great thread with lots of info on amounts, etc.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/gen...90%25-ers.html

This was the original thread:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/gen...ort-group.html

This thread is so great, she fed 10 people and up to 16. Very inspiring:

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/spe...mily-year.html

ItchingDuck · #13 01/29/13, 09:48 AM

Homesteader,
I haven't but will do now. Thanks!

Callieslamb · #14 01/29/13, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItchingDuck

Regular flourescent lights work, huh. Think I will take a trip back to wm. The one grow light I have plus the two bulbs will get me 2 longer 4' shop light type fixtures. Yeah, I'm just going to transplant.
............

If your lights are against a wall, it helps to put aluminum foil on the wall so it reflects the light back under the fixture. If they aren't, it might help to MAKE a wall behind them so the light is directed down on the plants. Sometimes I even put foil over the fixtures and drape it down over the edges in case some of the plants decide to grow out beyond the light.

I start 100's of transplants a year and usually have good luck. I have to be careful to not overwater and to give them a bit of a breeze to help their stems be strong. If they are grown in too warm of conditions, they get tall and spindly. Keep the lights right against them.

ItchingDuck · #15 01/29/13, 04:21 PM

Homesteader, Those links were really interesting. I am going to re-read them.

Callieslamb, I will certainly do that.
Thanks!

squiggyflop · #16 01/30/13, 02:03 PM

1, I just google yields and plant twice as many as I think I need. Something always comes along to screw up the garden. Bugs, blight, animals.

2, I save seeds in prescription bottles and I put them in a metal tin so they are cool and there is no light.

3, I obsessively plan, though I change my plans as I go along when things dont work out.

ItchingDuck · #17 01/30/13, 07:29 PM

I tend to plan obsessively as well. Pretty much about everything I undertake. I planned my horse shelter 3 years before I needed it. I reasearchedd my pigs (here I might add) chickens etc 2 years before I got them. I think that is obsessive

I'll google yeilds and re-plan my garden lol

badkitty · #18 01/30/13, 07:45 PM

I do up a rough sketch of what is going to go where in the garden, then my husband (who does most of the actual work) generally ignores it (or "makes adjustments"). Luckily, I write down varieties I bought/started, and can usually recognize the again, even if they're not where I thought they ought to go. We do try to avoid putting crops in the same spot within three years of the last time it grew there (basic crop rotation).

For storing seeds, I put them in ziploc bags (to keep moisture out), inside a box (to keep light out) in the basement, where it's cool. It seems to work well enough. Last year, we started having germination issues with some seeds that were over 6 years old, but that wasn't a surprise.

About figuring out how much we need - I am very bad at this. We have 10 acres, and the current garden area is 8,000 square feet, with room to expand, so I just plant lots of everything. What we don't eat, freeze, dehydrate, can, feed to the goats and chickens, or sell, we give to the food bank. Our first year, we started with six rows of potatoes (I think we planted 25 pounds - I wanted to try one of every type I could get my hands on), and ended with over 500 pounds of potatoes! We've been revising downwards, and are starting to get to manageable quantities.

One thing to keep in mind is to plant extra. A lot of the yield information is based on ideal growing conditions - the right soil temps, the right amount of sun, enough (but not too much) water, minimal trouble with bugs and other pests - stuff that doesn't normally all line up like that. That's why most folks plant extra, if they have space.

Also, you'll probably find that some crops do way better for you, and some don't ever perform as expected. I have trouble growing melons - our soil is just too cool too late in the season - but potatoes are a reliably huge crop here that needs little attention. Just depends on your own soil, location, etc. There is a lot of trial and error.