Soil Test Results

[Jhn56]

I recently sent off a soil sample from the garden to Penn State University. I gathered core samples (8 inches deep) from 16 different areas throughout the garden, mixed them all together thoroughly and sifted out all rocks and stones larger than 1/4".

While the results show my pH is too high, and the other nutrients are more or less 'not" optimal, I'm happy! It lets me know, maybe, if i make the right changes, the garden will be better next year

I'm a rookie gardener so to speak, I've been amending my dirt for the past few years, improving the texture and tilth by adding tons and tons of leaves. This is my first soil test since I've been working the plot (approx 1/4 acre).

As I would like to bring my pH down to about 6.5 (from 7.1), I have a few questions I hope y'all can help answer. PSU recommends adding Acidic Peat Moss, is there a better way to lower the pH? Should it be done NOW, or wait until spring?

I also had an optional test done for Organic Matter content %, which was 4.4, much lower than I anticipated, based on the amount of leaves i've tilled in. I realize adding Peat would both lower the pH and add organic matter, but it would be way too expensive to add enough peat to make a difference over 12000 sf. I currently have on hand approximately 600 CY of leaves, compliments of a nearby towns highway dept., which is just lying in 3 seperate 200yard rows, and will be left to compost themselves the long way, since i have no means of turning them.

My soil test results: pH is 7.1, optimal, Phosphate below optimal, Potash below optimal, Magnesium above optimal, Calcium below optimal
Organic Matter % 4.4

PSU, NPK recommendation is to apply 1.75 lbs per 100 sq ft of 10-10-10

The Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) is 11.4, PSU recommends anything lower than 15.0 (CEC), add one inch of organic matter. If soil pH is greater than 7.0, use acidic peat moss as the organic matter source.

I plan to use my free leaves to boost the OM%, and hopefully this will increase the CEC? Any advice to otherwise lower the pH from 7.1 to 6.5 without using peat?

[Jhn56]

i scanned the soil test page from PSU, is there a way to post it here as an attachment?

[galfriend]

I'd say be cautious of free leaves if you are aiming for "organic" when it isn't know if any chemicals were used where your free leaves came from.

You can put your scanned soil test on photobucket.com and then post it on here.

[Paquebot]

Sulfur is cheaper than peat. Aluminum sulfate will also do it. For application rate of either one, check out:

http://www.clemson.edu/extension/hgi.../hcic1650.html

Using sulfur, you'd need 1# per 100 square feet to drop from 7.0 to 6.5.

Martin

[Jhn56]

Originally Posted by galfriend

I'd say be cautious of free leaves if you are aiming for "organic" when it isn't know if any chemicals were used where your free leaves came from.

You can put your scanned soil test on photobucket.com and then post it on here.

Thanks for the headsup re:leaves, the leaves are all vacuumed from the curbs so I doubt there is much if any chemicals mixed in, as I haven't seen any grass or other debris, only leaves. I am focused on being organic as much as possible.

Thanks Martin, regarding application, I was thinking I should add the sulfur now? And retest pH in the spring, then add the recommended 10-10-10 a few weeks or just prior to planting

Seems I'm unable to post attachments, according to the posting rules at the bottom of the page. Is this because I'm a newbie to the site?

[Bearfootfarm]

Seems I'm unable to post attachments, according to the posting rules at the bottom of the page. Is this because I'm a newbie to the site?

No one can post "attachments", but if you have scanned it, you can post it the same way you would a photograph:

How to post pics....

[oneokie]

To raise the calcium level, apply Gypsum.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by Jhn56

Thanks for the headsup re:leaves, the leaves are all vacuumed from the curbs so I doubt there is much if any chemicals mixed in, as I haven't seen any grass or other debris, only leaves. I am focused on being organic as much as possible.

Vacuumed leaves will be mostly whole and contain little or no other material helpful in breaking them down. If you can't break them down, then best to leave them to do it on their own. They could be tilled into the soil if one is willing to go through the gardens 2 or 3 times to really get them into small bits but not on 12,000 square feet. Even then, it would require a little more nitrogen than the soil test recommended.

Thanks Martin, regarding application, I was thinking I should add the sulfur now? And retest pH in the spring, then add the recommended 10-10-10 a few weeks or just prior to planting

Elemental sulfur takes several months to a year to begin making a difference. It relies on soil bacteria to break it down and there's a lot of factors which determine how fast the bacteria can do the job. Broadcasting now wouldn't do a thing to help other than having it already there in the spring. Tilling in now also wouldn't make much difference since it will soon be too cold for the bacteria to begin working. So, you may as well wait until whenever you till and apply it then. Mix it with the 10-10-10 fertilizer and you can do it with one shot.

Martin

[geo in mi]

You may want to consider ammending some of your soil in stages that will fit pH levels for certain vegetables. This site from Nebraska will help you form some groupings--or ammendments by specific rows, plots of certain plants. As the chart shows, most garden vegetables grow pretty well in a range of pH levels, so I wouldn't be too concerned about getting it down to 6.5 instantly. The sulphur should be adequate in time, along with the addition of the leaves to up your organic content and thus improve your cation exchange. For faster acid release, you can use a granular fertilizer such as 10-10-10 as they recommend, because the water soluble ammonium sulphate will convert to nitrogen and sulphuric acid, which will then degrade to usable sulphur and hydrogen, without waiting on microorganisms to eat it and decay. The phosphorus in the granular fertilizer is also water soluble, while most of the P in your soil is not. What's left over after your plants use what they want will just return to the cation(locked-up) portion in your soil. Most plants need the phosphorus immediately in order to grow the root systems.

http://elkhorn.unl.edu/epublic/pages...licationId=750

You may want to study the nitrogen calculations presented, too. From your OM analysis of 4.4%, you may need to see if any of your plants will need sidedressing with additional nitrogen, whether finished compost or otherwise. Sometimes if you have low nitrogen, the plants won't benefit from any tweaking of pH or phosphorus, anyway, because nitrogen is the most basic, and when defecient, the most limiting factor in plant health and growth.

I would consider using the leaves as mulch next summer to hold soil moisture and to supress weeds. They will eventually get worked into the soil that way and may make it easier for you. You might try chopping some of them and incorporating into your beans and legume type of vegetables that will make their own nitrogen. If you innoculate your legumes, then the decomposing leaves robbing the soil of nitrogen shouldn't matter...... You could also work some of them into potato soil.

geo

[Jhn56]

WOW!! Awesome information, you guys are great!! No way could I ever get that kind of information, specific to MY problem, out of 50 articles!, way too much information and variables for this greenhorn! I really respect your experience, and the time you both took to explain everything so clearly and understandable.

This really makes my day! THANK YOU!!!!

Now I just need to print this entire post, sit down and readjust and incorporate it into my (paper copy) plan of attack.

Tomorrow, it's back to grinding leaves over the plot with the GT, if the weather holds up, I should be able to get it all tilled under, WoOHoO! My wife just said: The strangest things make you happy, I think she's right!

[geo in mi]

Originally Posted by Jhn56

WOW!! Awesome information, you guys are great!! No way could I ever get that kind of information, specific to MY problem, out of 50 articles!, way too much information and variables for this greenhorn! I really respect your experience, and the time you both took to explain everything so clearly and understandable.

This really makes my day! THANK YOU!!!!

Now I just need to print this entire post, sit down and readjust and incorporate it into my (paper copy) plan of attack.

Tomorrow, it's back to grinding leaves over the plot with the GT, if the weather holds up, I should be able to get it all tilled under, WoOHoO! My wife just said: The strangest things make you happy, I think she's right!

Welcome to the wonderful world of winter dreaming and summer gardening!



geo

[Jhn56]

A snag in the plan! it seems I won't be able to use sulpher to lower the pH, I've called around to all the fertilizer sources/farm supplys in the area. No one carries the stuff in bulk form. I figured to get 2-50lb bags (100 lb. total) which would help bring my pH down closer to 6.6-6.7 from 7.1 as it was tested to be.

If my pockets were deeper, I could order the stuff and pay out the nose to have it shipped in. The other option, aluminum sulfate, is available but not in bulk form. 4 lb. bags sell for nearly 7 bucks, my calculations based on 6# per 100 sf would require over 700# to cover my 12,000+ sf garden. It's no longer an option!

Ive been dumping and buying from a local recycling plant nearby for at least three years now, since moving into the area. Way back when, I noticed a large pile of peat moss, which was randomly dumped (not stacked) off the beaten trail heading in and out. Seems the pile hasn't shrunk a bit either, in all this time. I asked the person in charge at the scale house what they were charging per bale (3.8 cu.ft), cost was 7 bucks each.

I explained the bales were old, soaking wet and many were slighty split open. I then asked if they would be willing to sell me a bulk quantity for a cheaper price. I was given the plant owners name and number and a good luck wish. While speaking to the owner, I told him what my intentions were and informed him his old peat was just as expensive as the home depot's new. We agreed on a price of 3 bucks a bale.

Now, to the point. Being, who knows how old this stuff is, would this wet and soggy peat still be viable as a source of acid to lower my pH? It is still baled, just wet. I'm loving the idea of amending the garden with it as it will also help improve my OM% content from 4.4%. There are at least 100 bales scattered out, I have no problem with storage (5 acres), and money to spend.

Any reason to be wary of the old wet stuff that's been exposed to the past 12 seasons, without cover? I haven't tried calculating how much I will add to the
garden yet, but this is the stuff PSU recommended I use to help lower the ph and to add OM, since my CEC was (11.4) less than 15.

The unavailability of sulphur, and high cost of aluminum sulphate pushed me towards the peat, and finding the deal was a stroke of luck.

[Jhn56]

In my research, lowering pH using peat moss sounds like a slow process. Personally, I doubt that's a problem since I am basically neutral now @ 7.1. Also, the way i read it, its much easier to change the pH in sandy soil than it is clay and my concern would be, adding too much now.

In addition to the OM% and soil test report, PSU sent me an additional Particle Size Analysis report, which I was surprised to find in today's mailbox delivery!

Sand% 71.1%
Silt 19.3%
Clay. 9.6%

Soil texture class = sandy loam

[Paquebot]

I'd like to say that I can't believe that someone isn't carrying sulfur in 40 or 50 pound bags but doesn't surprise me. We can order anything that we want through a local co-op if it's not something carried in stock but here ain't New Jersey!

Go with as much of that peat as you can afford. At $3 per standard bale, it's close to theft! It's still going to be just as acidic as it was when fresh. After all, it was water a long time before it was harvested. It takes soil bacteria to break it down and you won't find that happening just from rain.

I don't think that there's any formula for how much peat to add to lower the pH. Your test advice calls for one inch of organic matter to bring that up so you indeed would be taking care of both problems by including peat. If you have enough peat for a half-inch, that's a start. Include at least an inch of your leaves along with it when you till or plow, especially since you have sandy loam. It can handle it and more.

Martin

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by Jhn56

In my research, lowering pH using peat moss sounds like a slow process. Personally, I doubt that's a problem since I am basically neutral now @ 7.1. Also, the way i read it, its much easier to change the pH in sandy soil than it is clay and my concern would be, adding too much now.

In addition to the OM% and soil test report, PSU sent me an additional Particle Size Analysis report, which I was surprised to find in today's mailbox delivery!

Sand% 71.1%
Silt 19.3%
Clay. 9.6%

Soil texture class = sandy loam

I'm going to slightly hijack this thread to point something out here and hope that it helps a lot of other people. Jhn56 thought that he had good soil and probably was getting good results from it. Look at the main ingredient in the soil texture, sand. Starting out with silt or clay, every grain of sand added takes it one grain closer to loam. Keep that in mind when a heavy soil thread comes along and I suggest adding sand. I won't ever suggest 70% but don't want anyone to have to garden in less than 15%.

Martin

[oneokie]

If there are any feed mills in your area that custom mix livestock feed, check with them for 50# bags of sulfur.

ETA; no idea of your stance on chemical fertilizers, but ammonium sulfate is a good source for sulfur.

[Jhn56]

Martin, I agree, some "garden state" huh? I searched thoroughly, even tried to get the biggest farm supply store in the area to add it to their next order placed, since I was in no hurry and had no intentions of using it until spring. I think I'm gonna have to question a different person or the owner, on my next visit, just to set things straight for future needs. It didn't seem like it at the time, but now feels like I was being blown off.

Tomorrow AM, I may just go buy it all! (peat) My sneaky plan is to explain to my wife, i NEED all i can get so i can also plant some blueberries too. She'll jump right on that bandwagon! Your reply is music to my ears!

You and Geo have been so much help in my two posts! Thanks again Brothers

I am more passionate about gardening than I ever thought possible, this www Internet thing is a good way to learn fast. Hopefully, I can give back and contribute more as I learn, until then, I'll be backstage schooling through some of the older posts

[Jhn56]

Originally Posted by oneokie

If there are any feed mills in your area that custom mix livestock feed, check with them for 50# bags of sulfur.

ETA; no idea of your stance on chemical fertilizers, but ammonium sulfate is a good source for sulfur.

There is a grain mill locally, I buy my chicken feed there. Never would have thought to ask them, I'll check it out, Thanks

My stance is to try to be as organic as possible, to date, I haven't used any chemicals or fertilizers here at the new homestead. I'm liking the peat moss decision, from an Eco standpoint, Ive read it's not a sustainable product? But what I'm buying is basically laying there like a pile of trash anyway. My guess would be it would eventually be incorporated into some future batch of topsoil or mulch made there at the facility anyway?

No guilt here and the garden remains clean

[idigbeets]

I would use some of that peat in the compost pile as well... peat compost is good stuff too

[geo in mi]

Your particle size report makes me curious: 71% sand will pretty well explain why your nutrients are showing less than optimal--from nutrient leaching and rapid burnup of organic matter exposed to sun and oxygen during tillage..... As a general rule, most soil pH problems are on the acidic side of the balance sheet; more time and effort is spent in raising the pH than the opposite, and usually, the conditions you see in your test report go hand in hand with low pH--especially on sandy soils--yet yours shows just the opposite.

I'm also curious why you used Penn State soil testing and not Rutgers? There are certain areas in New Jersey that have alkaline soils due to underlying limestone--(well, maybe across the line in Pa, too?). The sandy particles may come from a high percentage of limestone, rather than silicon or quartz(which would tend to be more acidic) Don't know if you are in that area or not, but at this point I would suggest you contact your local extension agent and discuss all this with them for some more specific advice. This site will give you the details of how to contact them, if you don't already know. http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/

I would go ahead and get the bargain peat moss--you will need to work that into your area where you intend to plant blueberries, regardless of current pH level, as they require about 5.0 and lots of organic matter incorporated into the depth of the planting area beforehand..... And, for me, the judicious use of chemical fertilizer is not a sin, as long as I am also adding massive amounts of organic matter and mulching to control weeds instead of heavy tilling, so I would be checking out ammonium sulphate to get a necessary pH change and a nitrogen boost. If you have chickens, are you using the manure in your overall plan for your garden? How about legumes and green fertilizers? As I suggested, too, can you use the leaves as summer mulch, then work them in?

But I'm tending to think of retesting from Rutgers(or at least rechecking the pH level), just to be sure, and seeing if you do have a limestone sand base. If you are located on naturally alkaline soil, you'll need to get a continuing program of ammending and pH testing going anyway, if you desire to get it to where you want it and keep it there.....

geo