Couple of questions from the newb

froggyfarmgirl · #1 10/13/10, 01:21 PM

Ok, these questions have been rattling around in my brain and I decided to just jump in and ask.

1) I've been doing some research on what we want to do for our garden next spring. I know where on the property it will be located already. My husband thinks tilling the ground is fine, but we don't have a tiller so likely would be doing it by hand unless we could find a tiller to borrow. I was thinking raised beds would be better and he wants supporting documentation lol. His concern is purchasing the dirt to go in them which would be pricey. So my questions, cheap/free places to get dirt to go in..I see posts on craigslist occasionally for free, clean fill dirt, that would work right? Would I then just need to watch it for weeds?

2) Strawberries-they're best to plant in the spring right? Would we still get berries next year if we plant the plants then, or not until the next year?

3) Anyone ever started apple trees from seed? We had some fabulous apples a month or so ago from the farmers market that my kids insisted on keeping the seeds from, so I wondered what the process would be for that since most talk I've seen is about buying already grown saplings.

There are more, but those are the only ones I can remember at the moment..trying to do as much planning and researching now to be prepared when it comes planting time! Oh, and I'm in zone 5 (5b maybe, I think we're RIGHT on the line between a & b) if that makes any difference. Thanks for the help!

Danaus29 · #2 10/13/10, 01:39 PM

Bottom to top;

apples from seed are a chance project. Most apples (from what I've been told) are pretty hybridized and usually don't come true from seed. Now for my experience, I did have an apple tree come up from a bunch of seeds I tossed into the garden. It even got apples on it. They were not big apples and they were not crunchy apples but they did have some good flavor. I plan on making some apple sauce with them in the spring (waiting so I can have rhubarb to add to it).

Strawberries can be planted now and you will get berries in the spring. Just remember to mulch the plants heavily with straw after the ground freezes or the late winter freeze/thaw cycle will push the plants right out of the ground and they will die.

Raised beds, best way is to not buy dirt. Add grass clippings, manure, mulch, compost, sand if needed, and whatever else you can get your hands on. If you must buy dirt, buy by the dump truck load, it's much cheaper than bagged products. With free fill dirt your biggest problem will be rocks, trash, and poor soil. This actually would be a good time of year to start raised beds, just think of all those free leaves. Fill the bed with free leaves and spread just enough soil on top to hold the leaves in place.

SquashNut · #3 10/13/10, 01:41 PM

You can do passive wide beds, rather than raised beds. if your doing it by hand it can be alot of work, but you could rent a tiller for way less than buying dirt.
Ask around and I am sure you could get free compostables and manure to amend your beds with.
In case your wondering, passive wide beds are where you till the whole garden then throw the soil from the pathes on to the beds. You only need enough compost and manure for the bed areas that way.
If you do a search on the web for this, it is often called American passive bed gardening.
We garden with the idea that it is the veggie that we eat not the garden, so we garden as cheaply as possible. Buying soil is not an option.

froggyfarmgirl · #4 10/13/10, 03:10 PM

Squash,. that's kinda my theory too. If we do raised beds, we have a bunch of materials we've gotten free off of craigslist to build them with. As far as filling with stuff to make compost, if we start them when we move in a few weeks (we're moving the weekend of nov. 5th Lord willing)..so figure prob. mid nov. before we would get the beds built, will everything break down enough to make compost by spring? I'm betting we'll have our first hard frost before we move, so I THINK we'll miss the strawberry planting window for fall..right? I like the passive idea for the paths, I'll run that by hubby. I saw on the Farmama blog that they kinda use the method of throwing the seeds on the ground and vovering with straw..that seems about as low maintenace as you can get lol.

mnn2501 · #5 10/13/10, 03:25 PM

I have had a regular garden for decades, but am slowly replacing it with raised beds, if you can do it right from the start it would be great.

Apples, I tried from seed 2 years ago, they didn't last - but then it could have been me.

Danaus29 · #6 10/13/10, 06:46 PM

You can plant strawberries until the ground freezes. They still send out some new roots until then.

As for the stuff breaking down into compost, if you do sheet composting in the beds the material will break down faster. Dig it in a little so the soil mixes with the material and it will break down quite a bit before it gets warm enough to plant tomatoes and beans.

froggyfarmgirl · #7 10/13/10, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danaus29

You can plant strawberries until the ground freezes. They still send out some new roots until then.

As for the stuff breaking down into compost, if you do sheet composting in the beds the material will break down faster. Dig it in a little so the soil mixes with the material and it will break down quite a bit before it gets warm enough to plant tomatoes and beans.

TY! That makes me VERY happy! Now to find some good seeds! :banana02:

geo in mi · #8 10/14/10, 08:45 AM

froggyfarmgirl,

You left out some information which might help us make a valid opinion. Where do you live?(zone) Have you tested your existing soil and what does it test? Have you really looked at your existing garden soil for rocks, clay, drainage, at least six hours of sunlight? How old are you?(arthritis, creaky joints, etc.) How much area do you want to make into garden?

Only if I got a lot of negative answers to those questions would I consider raised beds. Cost, both of materials and soil brought in. More labor intensive to get started and maintain--I would rather spend the time and money on my original soil, if at all possible. You will need compost and ammendments any way you go. And, without those frames and heaps of soil, you could be more flexible with your planting each year.

As for strawberries, here in SW Michigan, the plants are beginning to go dormant for this year, so planting now would have no effect better than waiting until next year to start. Unless you find someone willing to give(or sell) you huge clumps, roots and all, and unless you planted them relatively undisturbed, you would probably not gain any berries next year. By planting new berries in the Spring, yes, you will have to wait one season to get berries, but you don't just sit idle with your plants until the next year--what you do with them the first year will determine your next year's crop.

I would suggest you do some extensive Googling this winter to find the varieties that should do well for your area, and for your use, eating, freezing, jam, etc. And here are a couple of websites to get started with basic information: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/ho-46.pdf
and: http://umaine.edu/publications/2067e/

And here's one I just found--everything you wanted to know about strawberries, but were too hurried to ask. It has an extensive list of oline strawberry sellers throughout the US.... I'm posting it in the sticky above, too, for your winter reading http://strawberryplants.org/
Hope this might help.

geo

olivehill · #9 10/14/10, 09:10 AM

IME filling new raised beds with "free" materials in the fall and expecting to be able to plant in them the next spring isn't a great idea. I ended up having to shovel what I'd put in them in the fall back out -- put it in the compost -- once spring came and ordered a load of dirt anyway. Think about it, you put the compostables in there now, but within the next month or so they're going to freeze. The beds aren't big and deep enough to stay hot over the winter so no composting goes on, in the spring you just have beds full of compostable materials.

ronbre · #10 10/14/10, 09:48 AM

most people when they learn a lot about the soil tend to change to a NO till garden..so you might want to read Gaia's Garden by Toby Hemenway, One Straw Revolution by Manasobu Fukoka (avail free online to read)..and some other info on no till gardening..there are some threads on the permies site about it if you search
www.permies.com

It is far better for your soil to never till it

ronbre · #11 10/14/10, 09:50 AM

oh and yes I have 4 large apple trees that started from seeds from the core of a rotten apple and they are wonderful, all different..remember they will be full size..no dwarfs..and they might not resemble the parent apple at all..see my blog (address below) for photos of 3 of the apples I grew from seed. I also have boughten trees and hybrids..

jwal10 · #12 10/16/10, 04:07 PM

Sounds like you are thinking ahead, good for you. Sounds like you are trying to do this on the cheap, good too. If you have dirt that will grow a garden then it will grow a raised bed the first year. Add all the compost you can get. Build the raised beds and throw dirt from the paths into the raised beds. Put straw, cardboard, rocks or woodchips in the paths. I would just do a few and garden both ways. If it is dry enough plow this fall, do not rototill unless you can cover it with mulch or straw, just packs down and will stay wet next spring. Wait until spring for strawberries and plant an everbearing type, I get good fall production the first year. Apple seeds, You may not get what you ate, plant any type seeds and graft what apple you like to it. You get what you graft on. If it is wet always wait until the soil drys out, otherwise you do more damage than waiting. It is fine to dig soil into a raised bed at anytime and cover with leaves, straw or mulch to keep the rain from eroding the tilth out of your soil. Shredded newspaper works good too and you will have lots of worms doing their thing too....James

Callieslamb · #13 10/16/10, 06:12 PM

How tall are you planning on making the beds? how hot do your summers get? how much rain? I have always had raised beds, they tend to dry out a lot faster if they are raised much higher that the surrounding soil level - especially in a HOT climate. There's nothing really that says raised beds have to be 'full'. As you work with your soil and mulch the garden, the beds will fill themselves. My raised beds are only 4 inches - about a landscape timber depth. No need to fill them. I actually made mine by digging the paths out and putting it in the bed. If you are in a wet climate - you will benefit from raised beds more than a dry climate.

Raised beds simply give you an area to focus on rather that building up the soil in the whole garden. The paths keep feet and weight off the beds. You can have a BED garden without the sides with the same effect as raised beds by how you plant and where you step.

Are you thinking of starting strawberries by seeds? You can, but it isn't the surest way to get berries. I think in zone 5, your gardening season is about over for the year. Every bearing strawberries can give you a small harvest the same year you plant them.