I think I really screwed up - now what?

[shoofly]

So I planted my first garden this year, and I think I've made a ton of mistakes. But here are the three biggest, and I don't know where to go from here so I can make a better start next year:

1. We turned over sod with a tiller last year and didn't lime it or anything afterwards. Hence, I think it is full of seeds.

2. There is some kind of grass/weed just inundating the garden. I've hoed and pulled it by hand, but I guess not right/enough. I didn't mulch till now, and it is taking over about half of my garden.

3. So I decided to mulch, too late in the game I'm sure. I first put old, pretty non-seed hay from our goats around my sunflowers as a test, and it worked! And so my neighbors gave me a bunch of bales of their old hay and I put it around things tonight. I noticed it was seedy but I was tired and like a dummy I put it down anyway - now i came in tonight and read that you should never mulch with seedy hay because next year I'll have planted hay!!! Makes sense - what was I thinking? What do I do?!!?!

So the question is - what can I do now to make this mess better next year? Should I stop weeding or growing anything? Cover with plastic? Continue on? I'm so sad that I've made such a mess of my first garden. Believe it or not, I did read books and talk with other gardeners, but there is so much to know, I made my garden too big, and I have really young kids so I didn't spend as much time as regularly as was needed.

Thanks so,so much for any tips.....Whew, I feel a little better now that I've written this out...Maybe there is some hope .

[Danaus29]

The weeds that come up out of the hay will be easier to pull than the grass that was there. I'd just keep growing, weeding as you get time, lay down newspaper or cardboard under the hay and freshly pulled weeds, try to pull weeds before they go to seed. The only way I was able to stop the horrid weed problem I had was to dump buckets and buckets of wood shavings and straw mixed with rabbit and duck poo on the garden, pile that up into beds, and plant in the beds. Mowed grass and the autumn leaves get spread on the paths. I did lay paper feed sacks down between the beds last spring.

[draggahaus]

I am having the same problem. new garden, and lots of weeding. I feel it is a never ending job. what I am doing is going out and working one bed a day...I then put down the newspaper, cardboard what ever and mulch like a mad woman. WEll I hve a few very nice beds and a few that are full of grass. I will eventually get to them, but I will not give up. I want those veggies!!!!! I have salsa plans. I have even put up lights so I can work at night and get it done when it is cooler. Right now the weather is what is an issue it is soooo hot and i heat stroke..so I have to be careful. But don't give up. Your next one you will not make these mistakes in because you are learning now. Just think of how many more things you will learn this year/growing season, if you give up you will have to learn them next year.

[MELOC]

you are not growig weeds, you are growing more mulch.

[piccololily]

In my first few years of gardening, I always used hay. Some of it was seedy. But I WOULD do it again...it was still way better than none...kept the water in, added organic matter in the fall, and the weeds that did sprout were few and way easier to pull, as Danaus said.

Keep mulching with whatever you can find...the first year with sod mixed in is always challenging. But with lots of mulch, the following year your soil will be so much better!

As far as liming, check your ph first--don't add lime if your soil is neutral or alkaline, as lime will make it more so. Veggies thrive in ph of 6 to 7.

[turtlehead]

It's a normal first year garden. I battle weeds EVERY year.

Attacking one row/bed at a time is a good strategy. Then mulch like a crazy person. Mulching with seedy straw *is* better than not mulching at all, but I like mulching with grass even better. Pile it on in layers - if you pile it on too thick right away it makes a mat and the water doesn't soak through easily.

Just keep pulling weeds and hoeing and mulching.
You can pull weeds a lot easier if the ground is moist than if it is dry.

This fall, cultivate the soil or turn it or till it or whatever you do, then cover with newspaper if you have it and then pile on lots of grass clippings and chopped up leaves from your lawnmower bagger.

Next year you can just plant through what's left of the grass/leaves and keep on mulching and your weed problem will be greatly reduced.

Personally I've never been able to get rid of weeds. I just keep fighting them.

Oh - keep the area around the garden free of weeds. I always let mine get too high along the fence; if you keep them mowed or cut down with a weed eater you'll have lots less problems with weeds *and* bug pests.

[Ravenlost]

My weeds are healthier than my vegetable plants! I'm not much for hoeing or pulling them either.

This Fall cover your garden with newspaper, cardboard, heavy plastic, etc...whatever you have on hand. When you pull it back next Spring be sure to mulch...mulch...mulch.

It takes a few years to get a garden going. You're doing fine.

P.S. Lime doesn't kill weeds. It fertilizes them.

[farmergirl]

What a relief to hear that I'm not the only one wondering whether I should just give up the new garden and let the weeds win. I have been mulching, mulching, mulching...tried pulling some of the grass by hand, but it is so strongly rooted that I have had to resort to cutting much of it with scissors! This is the first year for the garden in this particular spot, so it's good to know that what I'm battling is normal. Still stinks, but at least it's normal.

[shoofly]

Oh, fellow gardeners, I cannot tell you how very much I appreciate your posts and the good they've done me!!!!! There is so much good advice and encouragement here, and I'm glad to know I'm not alone, too. Your advice helps me so much in thinking about how to go forward. It's good to have a plan.

After I read all your posts, I really did feel like there is hope, and I'm excited once again. I'm going to persevere and see what I can do. It's good to know that it is in fact pretty hard the first year you remove sod - I was thinking I was just an atrocious gardener.

I am going to bookmark this thread on my computer, and I would love to hear any other experiences or advice that people have.

Thanks again!!!!

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by shoofly

1. We turned over sod with a tiller last year and didn't lime it or anything afterwards. Hence, I think it is full of seeds.

Yes, it's possible that there were a lot of seeds. Some are known to remain viable in the soil for more than 50 years while waiting for the proper conditions. Most would be annuals which can be easily controlled by simple hoeing.

2. There is some kind of grass/weed just inundating the garden. I've hoed and pulled it by hand, but I guess not right/enough. I didn't mulch till now, and it is taking over about half of my garden.

Your grass is quite probably a perennial type. When you tilled, you cut those roots into many smaller pieces which now all are merrily thanking you for not raking them out. They will continue to build up more root reserves for as long as they are allowed to produce leaves.

3. So I decided to mulch, too late in the game I'm sure. I first put old, pretty non-seed hay from our goats around my sunflowers as a test, and it worked! And so my neighbors gave me a bunch of bales of their old hay and I put it around things tonight. I noticed it was seedy but I was tired and like a dummy I put it down anyway - now i came in tonight and read that you should never mulch with seedy hay because next year I'll have planted hay!!! Makes sense - what was I thinking? What do I do?!!?!

Mulching is not going to stop any perennial grass or weed. They'll just grow up through it. Some will come up through 4" of wood chips with no problem so your hay isn't going to slow them much. And whatever comes in with the hay is also easily handled with a hoe.

So the question is - what can I do now to make this mess better next year? Should I stop weeding or growing anything?

Do not stop weeding any annual that appears. With a proper SHARP hoe, you can cut through that hay mulch and prevent the grass from storing much energy in the roots. Then, till it this fall as soon as possible after the last harvest. That will work that hay into the soil where it will be mostly broken down by spring. Then, till again 3 days before planting. Use the first two days to rake as deep as possible and remove EVERY bit of material which even resembles a grass root. Then spend only a few minutes each day after that to hoe off every green shoot that doesn't belong to what you planted. There is not a grass in the world that will survive that.

Martin

[gina kay]

At the entrance of my garden I have long grass and it was d to pull up so I placed a long carpet runner down to smother it. Rest of the garden there are some weeds (wild plant) that are easy to pull up and ALOT of trailing groundcovering that has hardly any root system so it's also easy to pull up. It's just hard to do with the melon vines intermingled. It IS really hot here in Texas so I try to do some every morning and evening.

[tomakers]

Originally Posted by Paquebot

With a proper SHARP hoe, you can cut through that hay mulch and prevent the grass from storing much energy in the roots.
Martin

I wonder how many still know enough to sharpen their hoes. It DOES make the job a lot easier. Even the "hula hoes", or whatever they are known as now, benefit from some sharpening.

[Paquebot]

Originally Posted by tomakers

I wonder how many still know enough to sharpen their hoes. It DOES make the job a lot easier. Even the "hula hoes", or whatever they are known as now, benefit from some sharpening.

Very true, and note my word "proper". Most hoes sold are good only for mixing cement and hilling potatoes with their 90º position. Proper weeding hoes are about 60º. First thing I do when another garden asks for help with their hoe is to modify it to 60º. Next is to sharpen it. They are then showed how to pull instead of chop. The user never has to lift it more than a few inches above the soil. I have 4 weeding hoes for various purposes. One is an old beet hoe which is older than I am and filed down to half its original size. Second is a Goserud Flow-Thru which is also filed down to about half original depth. Other 2 began as square hoes but modified to 60º and cut into a triangle similar to a Warren hoe. All are easy to use as long as they are sharp. My 5,000 or so square feet is nothing. When we farmed, our tobacco base was 2.2 acres and weed control was all by hoe. Start at the first row and hoe to the other end. Turn around and do the next row. Do that for about 3 days. Take a few days off and start all over! In the process, one quickly learns how to use a hoe without expending a massive amount of energy.

Martin

[ChristyACB]

Martin,

Could you post pictures of your hoes? I'm quickly learning that a proper hoe is not an option. I'm hoeing up invasive species shoots every 2 days or so and I just have an off the shelf hoe and I know I'm working way to hard.

Or maybe you have suggestions for a good hoe to get somewhere already done that is good for whacking baby vines and phragmites reeds?

[RedTartan]

What does one sharpen a hoe with? I realize that's probably a stupid question, but I have no idea where to begin.

RedTartan

[turtlehead]

I'm SO glad this thread has taken this turn.

I don't know how to use a hoe, but I'm going to go look at YouTube for examples.

And... when does one use a hoe and when does one use a cultivator (that thing with tines)? I always end up pulling weeds by hand because I get frustrated not knowing how to use my garden tools. I know my hoe isn't sharp, too.

Sorry, I rambled - it's just so good to get that frustration out where I know folks will understand.

So, back to my point - when do I use a hoe and when do I use a cultivator?

[turtlehead]

Heavens, the things that come up when you search for "hoe" on YouTube.

Here are a couple of good ones I found:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=CjMhqwyynmwhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=6NuqeNlgBlwhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=nRr6VWppBh4
If you do a search, I suggest "garden hoe"

[ChristyACB]

::laughs and laughs and then falls off the couch:::

[Paquebot]

The best all-purpose hoe for dealing with heavy weeds is a Warren hoe. That's the one which is about 4" wide at the top, 6" long, and comes to a point. When both sides are sharpened, they become a 6" long knife to shear weeds off just below the surface. The narrow point can be used to gently pluck out a weed between two close plants. And if there is something major to be removed, it becomes a 6" plow.

Only problem with a Warren hoe is that they are generally expensive. I solve that by starting with a cheap square hoe. With a little work with a hacksaw and file, I end up with a very deadly weapon.

If all one has is an ordinary square hoe, get out a heavy hammer and beat on the crook to bend it down to less than 90º. To find the right angle for you, extend the hoe as if you were going to use it to shave the ground about 3' in front of you. If the entire face of the hoe is not resting on the ground, you haven't bent the crook enough. When you have such a hoe properly adjusted to your physical dimensions, then you can hoe almost forever without becoming tired. You never have to chop but rather merely draw the hoe toward you with minimum effort.

Martin

[Mid Tn Mama]

Ah garden humor. In this family if someone asks to be handed the hoe, invariably someone else will say, "Who you callin' a hoe?" It's stupid, but it's hot and we are happy for the smile.