Onions and lime - Homesteading Today
Homesteading Today

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Country Living Forums > Gardening & Plant Propagation


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 04/20/07, 04:26 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: la playa
Posts: 348
Onions and lime

There was a thread on here a little while back(I'm too lazy to find it) where me and another person disagreed about putting lime on onions. You know how sometimes you just know something and your brain doesn't immediately pull to the front of your mind why you do it that way? Today at lunch I was eating a really good sweet onion. First thing that popped into my head is.....they must have really thrown the lime to this onion. That's when the lightbulb went on in my brain and I remembered why I add lime. I was beginning to think that it had burned out.

One of the tiny little towns I grew up near was famous for it's onions. People would drive 50 miles or more to buy sweet Noonday onions. I think the little town claims to be the onion capital(why does every tiny town need a claim to fame?). The way they get the onions so sweet is to pour lots of lime onto our slightly acid soil(lots of pine trees). If they lime it correctly(far enough before planting, put on correct amount) the onions are almost sweet as an apple. As I recall....the land for the most part was a sandy loam.....also wonderful for growing roses.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04/20/07, 04:50 PM
SquashNut's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,431

If your soil normally needs lime then, yes go ahead and lime the onion bed.
I lime in the fall, so lime has time to dissolve.
Beside the variety of onion, the important thing to growing sweet onions is moisture. last year was real dry here and our onions were hotter than normal.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04/20/07, 10:15 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 14,800

Lime is NOT what makes onions sweet. Sweetness and storage capability is determined by the sugar, sulfur and water content. Lime has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of sugar or sulfur content of an onion. Onions do best in a pH range of 5.8 to 7.0. Adding lime to soil 7.0 or higher would have an adverse effect on the harvest, not something for the better.
www.sweetonionsource.com/difference.html

Martin

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04/21/07, 12:30 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Or
Posts: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquebot
Lime has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of sugar or sulfur content of an onion. Onions do best in a pH range of 5.8 to 7.0.
www.sweetonionsource.com/difference.html

Martin
You really have no basis for making an absolute statment such as this. How many acres of onions have you ever actually grown. I said it before and no doubt will have to say it again, the learning obtained simply from reading garden books and accepting all they say as fact is very limited compared to the learning obtained in actually doing.

Onions are a large consumer of Calcium and Magnesium the 2 elements that make up dolomitic lime. You are missing that Calcium and Magnesium are both very important nutrients, and that lime does much more than just raise pH.
The amount of lime necessary to raise the pH from 6.0 to 7.0 is HUGE. Also, you are not in a position to say how much lime will be too much without knowing the SMP buffer pH of a given soil.An example from my own fields:

My soil pH is 6.3, my SMP buffer pH is 6.6--it would take 2200lbs/acre of Ag lime to raise my soil pH from 6.3 to 6.4 and it would take almost 2 years for the pH change to fully take effect. I just had my soil limed at 2000lbs/acre because, while my pH is ideal my soil is LOW IN CALCIUM I didn't lime my fields to raise the pH, I limed the soil to increase the fertility.

My "Knott's Handbook for Vegetable Growers" shows the following:

Nutrient uptake for bulb onions in lbs/acre:

N:61 P:12 K:72 Ca:8.5 Mg:11.2.

You can see that onions uptake almost as much Ca and Mg as they do P.

Studies have shown that the addition of CaCO3 (ag lime) increases an onions uptake of P more than adding Phosphorous fertilizer. Ca plays many different roles in plants, increasing their vigor, rate of photosynthesis, cold tolerance (very important for overwintered sweet onions). Onions grown on soils low in Calcium could indeed have increased sugar levels by the addition of Calcium in the form of lime to the soil. A more vigorous, healthier, plant with increased photosynthesis will develop more sugars than a plant with lower photosynthesis. Pretty simple, really. Sugar is a carbohydrate, how does a plant make carbohydrates--photosynthesis.

Ca deficiency in onions is characterized by: leaf tip dieback on young leaves, dry or brown tissue in the bulbs, limp leaves, apparent root injury. If the roots and leaves of a plant are not functioning at an optimum level, guess what, less sugars produced.

Mg deficiency in onions is characterised by: leaf dieback, foliage dies premature, growth is slow

In the 'Vidalia' growing regions of Georgia, they regularly lime with dolomite.

The following is a study by Dr. T.L. Jackson, a soil scientist at Oregon State University. It is titled "Lime and fertilizer effects on overwintered onions." I was conducted in the Willamette Valley of Western Oregon just 20 or so miles north of me. They added 0,2,4,6 tons of lime/acre on the different test plots. The results show a large increase in yield and yield quality with the addition of lime.


Results and Discussion

1983.
Application of lime significantly increased onion stands, total onion yield, yield of #1 bulbs, mean bulb weight, and number of bulbs harvested (Table 1). Stand counts were made in April 1983, too late to determine whether the lime application enhanced onion germination and emergence or enhanced survival by increasing the growth rate of seedlings. Previous experiments on Willamette soil indicated that liming increases seedling emergence of onions and several other small seeded vegetable crops. Since the application of lime also visibly stimulated early plant growth (no measurements recorded), enhanced winter survival of larger seedlings also may have contributed to the effect of lime on onion stands. Of the subplot treatments, only N application affected stands, with a small, but statistically significant, increase in stand on plots which received no spring fertilizer. Since no stand counts were made before application of the first subplot treatments, it cannot be determined whether spring fertilizer application actually caused some stand reduction or the stand differences reflected existing variability within main plots.

Most of the stand and yield response to lime occurred with application of only 2 tons/acre; however, further significant increases in yield and number of grade #1 bulbs were obtained at 4 tons/acre (Table 1). Leaf tissue of plants grown on limed soil contained significantly higher concentrations of P, K, and Ca, and significantly lower concentrations of Zn and Mn than did leaf tissue grown on unlimed soil (Table 2). Since P levels were quite low compared to reported values and were increased 24% with application of 4 tons/acre of lime, much of the yield response to lime might be ascribed to increased P availability. However, increased K and Ca uptake or reduction of Mn toxicity may also have been involved in the lime response.

Application of spring N fertilizer, when averaged across lime, P, gypsum, and form of N applied, significantly increased total and #1 yields and bulb weight (Table 1). There were no significant N x lime interactions, and highest overall yields (30-33 tons/acre) were obtained with combinations of the highest rate of lime and spring application of either ammonium nitrate or ammonium sulfate. Application of spring N increased leaf tissue N, Zn, and Mn concentrations. Undoubtedly, the yield response to N was primarily attributable to increased soil N supply. The increase in tissue Zn concentration may also have played a role since Zn concentration of plants which received no spring fertilizer application was low compared to values reported in the literature. The increase in leaf tissue Zn and Mn concentrations with spring N application may have been caused by a temporary localized decrease in soil pH after application of the acidifying N fertilizers.

Within the subset of plots receiving a spring application of fertilizer, there was a trend toward higher yields and mean bulb weights with ammonium sulfate as N source (Table 1). These differences were never significant at the 95% level; however, the increase in total yield was significant at the 90% level. Leaf tissue N levels were slightly higher with ammonium sulfate as N source, but other tissue elemental concentrations were not significantly affected by N source (Table 2). Certainly, it does not appear necessary to provide NO3-N to assure good onion yields.

Within the subset of treatments receiving a spring application of ammonium nitrate, application of concentrated superphosphate did not affect overall yields but did slightly increase mean bulb weight (Table 1). There were no significant P x lime interactions. Application of P had no effect on leaf elemental concentrations (Table 2). Since P had no effect on tissue P levels, it is evident that the surface application did not bring the relatively insoluble P into sufficient contact with the root mass, or that some other factor prevented effective uptake. Lack of P uptake from the fertilizer probably precluded any yield response. However, since the winter and spring were unusually mild, any P effect on yield may have been masked by better than normal spring growth on all plots.
__________________

Last edited by veggrower; 04/21/07 at 12:35 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04/21/07, 01:01 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 14,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by veggrower
You really have no basis for making an absolute statment such as this. How many acres of onions have you ever actually grown. I said it before and no doubt will have to say it again, the learning obtained simply from reading garden books and accepting all they say as fact is very limited compared to the learning obtained in actually doing.

Onions are a large consumer of Calcium and Magnesium the 2 elements that make up dolomitic lime. You are missing that Calcium and Magnesium are both very important nutrients, and that lime does much more than just raise pH.
The amount of lime necessary to raise the pH from 6.0 to 7.0 is HUGE. Also, you are not in a position to say how much lime will be too much without knowing the SMP buffer pH of a given soil.An example from my own fields:

My soil pH is 6.3, my SMP buffer pH is 6.6--it would take 2200lbs/acre of Ag lime to raise my soil pH from 6.3 to 6.4 and it would take almost 2 years for the pH change to fully take effect. I just had my soil limed at 2000lbs/acre because, while my pH is ideal my soil is LOW IN CALCIUM I didn't lime my fields to raise the pH, I limed the soil to increase the fertility.

My "Knott's Handbook for Vegetable Growers" shows the following:

Nutrient uptake for bulb onions in lbs/acre:

N:61 P:12 K:72 Ca:8.5 Mg:11.2.

You can see that onions uptake almost as much Ca and Mg as they do P.

Studies have shown that the addition of CaCO3 (ag lime) increases an onions uptake of P more than adding Phosphorous fertilizer. Ca plays many different roles in plants, increasing their vigor, rate of photosynthesis, cold tolerance (very important for overwintered sweet onions). Onions grown on soils low in Calcium could indeed have increased sugar levels by the addition of Calcium in the form of lime to the soil. A more vigorous, healthier, plant with increased photosynthesis will develop more sugars than a plant with lower photosynthesis. Pretty simple, really. Sugar is a carbohydrate, how does a plant make carbohydrates--photosynthesis.

Ca deficiency in onions is characterized by: leaf tip dieback on young leaves, dry or brown tissue in the bulbs, limp leaves, apparent root injury. If the roots and leaves of a plant are not functioning at an optimum level, guess what, less sugars produced.

Mg deficiency in onions is characterised by: leaf dieback, foliage dies premature, growth is slow

In the 'Vidalia' growing regions of Georgia, they regularly lime with dolomite.

The following is a study by Dr. T.L. Jackson, a soil scientist at Oregon State University. It is titled "Lime and fertilizer effects on overwintered onions." I was conducted in the Willamette Valley of Western Oregon just 20 or so miles north of me. They added 0,2,4,6 tons of lime/acre on the different test plots. The results show a large increase in yield and yield quality with the addition of lime.


Results and Discussion

1983.
Application of lime significantly increased onion stands, total onion yield, yield of #1 bulbs, mean bulb weight, and number of bulbs harvested (Table 1). Stand counts were made in April 1983, too late to determine whether the lime application enhanced onion germination and emergence or enhanced survival by increasing the growth rate of seedlings. Previous experiments on Willamette soil indicated that liming increases seedling emergence of onions and several other small seeded vegetable crops. Since the application of lime also visibly stimulated early plant growth (no measurements recorded), enhanced winter survival of larger seedlings also may have contributed to the effect of lime on onion stands. Of the subplot treatments, only N application affected stands, with a small, but statistically significant, increase in stand on plots which received no spring fertilizer. Since no stand counts were made before application of the first subplot treatments, it cannot be determined whether spring fertilizer application actually caused some stand reduction or the stand differences reflected existing variability within main plots.

Most of the stand and yield response to lime occurred with application of only 2 tons/acre; however, further significant increases in yield and number of grade #1 bulbs were obtained at 4 tons/acre (Table 1). Leaf tissue of plants grown on limed soil contained significantly higher concentrations of P, K, and Ca, and significantly lower concentrations of Zn and Mn than did leaf tissue grown on unlimed soil (Table 2). Since P levels were quite low compared to reported values and were increased 24% with application of 4 tons/acre of lime, much of the yield response to lime might be ascribed to increased P availability. However, increased K and Ca uptake or reduction of Mn toxicity may also have been involved in the lime response.

Application of spring N fertilizer, when averaged across lime, P, gypsum, and form of N applied, significantly increased total and #1 yields and bulb weight (Table 1). There were no significant N x lime interactions, and highest overall yields (30-33 tons/acre) were obtained with combinations of the highest rate of lime and spring application of either ammonium nitrate or ammonium sulfate. Application of spring N increased leaf tissue N, Zn, and Mn concentrations. Undoubtedly, the yield response to N was primarily attributable to increased soil N supply. The increase in tissue Zn concentration may also have played a role since Zn concentration of plants which received no spring fertilizer application was low compared to values reported in the literature. The increase in leaf tissue Zn and Mn concentrations with spring N application may have been caused by a temporary localized decrease in soil pH after application of the acidifying N fertilizers.

Within the subset of plots receiving a spring application of fertilizer, there was a trend toward higher yields and mean bulb weights with ammonium sulfate as N source (Table 1). These differences were never significant at the 95% level; however, the increase in total yield was significant at the 90% level. Leaf tissue N levels were slightly higher with ammonium sulfate as N source, but other tissue elemental concentrations were not significantly affected by N source (Table 2). Certainly, it does not appear necessary to provide NO3-N to assure good onion yields.

Within the subset of treatments receiving a spring application of ammonium nitrate, application of concentrated superphosphate did not affect overall yields but did slightly increase mean bulb weight (Table 1). There were no significant P x lime interactions. Application of P had no effect on leaf elemental concentrations (Table 2). Since P had no effect on tissue P levels, it is evident that the surface application did not bring the relatively insoluble P into sufficient contact with the root mass, or that some other factor prevented effective uptake. Lack of P uptake from the fertilizer probably precluded any yield response. However, since the winter and spring were unusually mild, any P effect on yield may have been masked by better than normal spring growth on all plots.
I also do not believe that you are in any position to know what the pH of TxGypsy's soil is. And yet you make it sound as if it's the same as what you have. What the pH of your soil or mine has no bearing on the question. The original post on this thread implies that the sweetness of an onion is due to the lime and that is incorrect. I linked to a site which explained what causes one variety to be more or less sweeter than another. Although calcium and magnesium are important for healthy growth of an onion plant, they are are NOT what causes one onion to be more or less sweeter than another.

It also matters not if a person grows acres of onions or 1 one onion. The results are the same.

Martin
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04/21/07, 12:55 PM
SquashNut's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,431
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquebot
I also do not believe that you are in any position to know what the pH of TxGypsy's soil is. And yet you make it sound as if it's the same as what you have. What the pH of your soil or mine has no bearing on the question. The original post on this thread implies that the sweetness of an onion is due to the lime and that is incorrect. I linked to a site which explained what causes one variety to be more or less sweeter than another. Although calcium and magnesium are important for healthy growth of an onion plant, they are are NOT what causes one onion to be more or less sweeter than another.

It also matters not if a person grows acres of onions or 1 one onion. The results are the same.

Martin
That's why I said "if" your soil normally needs lime.
I am sure there are parts of our country where they would cause problems by adding lime.
Now I need to do the math and figure out how much lime at 2000 pounds to the acre works out to treat 100 square foot. Just to double check my math any one know?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04/21/07, 01:10 PM
MELOC's Avatar
Master Of My Domain
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7,220

about 5 pounds.

__________________

this message has probably been edited to correct typos, spelling errors and to improve grammar...

"All that is gold does not glitter..."

Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04/21/07, 01:15 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 14,800

43,560 sq. ft. per acre. If your soil test calls for application of lime at the rate of 2,000 pounds per acre, it's 4.6 pounds per 100 sq. ft.

Martin

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04/21/07, 02:13 PM
SquashNut's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,431

I am one of those nuts who don't do soil tests. My garden grows well enough with out one. Call me crazy.
Ya thats about what I got on the math too.
But kinda figured I better have some one check my math , just in case cause I only grow about 100 foot of onions and wasn't sure if I could figure it out with out help.
My guess 4.6 pounds is about a 13 oz. coffee can of dolomite lime, right.

__________________

Last edited by SquashNut; 04/21/07 at 02:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04/21/07, 02:30 PM
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquashNut
I am one of those nuts who don't do soil tests.
Me too.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04/22/07, 12:44 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: la playa
Posts: 348

Thanks for the very informative answer veggrower. I never knew the technical reason for adding lime. I just knew that it worked. A word to the wise, or those that want to become wise.......find an old timer in your area with a nice garden and see if you can get them talking about what they do in their garden. This will serve you better than all the garden books and expert opinions that are out there. They may tell you something that flies in the face of things you have read....try it anyhow. Variety is the spice of life. If nobody ever experimented and did things differently we would never have new discoveries.

My advice(or anyone elses) will be based on my personal experience. As a simple fallable human being....I only have my experience to draw upon. I would not presume to put myself forward as an all knowing expert. Conversely I try not to speak about things that I have no knowledge of. The views I express are honestly presented in an effort to share my passion of gardening and pass on what little knowledge I might possess. I also hope that I might be able to learn a thing or two at the same time.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04/22/07, 12:46 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: N. Calif./was USDA 9b before global warming
Posts: 4,596

Is the lime used with onions for pH adjustment or calcium enrichment?

My soil has a pH between 7 and 7.4; my city water tends to run slighly basic as well, and has a lot of dissolved minerals in it, including calcium. Dunno if the calcium is bioavailable though.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04/22/07, 02:21 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 14,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite
My soil has a pH between 7 and 7.4; my city water tends to run slighly basic as well, and has a lot of dissolved minerals in it, including calcium. Dunno if the calcium is bioavailable though.
You know what the pH of your soil is. If you did not, and had asked a question about how to make your onions sweeter, would lime have been the accepted answer? If you had then applied lime and had a negative affect on the overall health and harvest, would there be some claiming that you apparently did not apply enough lime and call for more? Probably! If a test showed that you definitely needed calcium in 7.4 pH soil, lime would not be the recommended solution.

It amazes me that there are so many gardeners who don't have a clue as to what they have. They won't spend a dime to have their soil tested but will spend many dollars to correct a phantom problem. By contrast, you're not going to find a single crop farmer who does not know his soil. Those who don't know and don't care are those who are happy with whatever harvest they get. If they were to suddenly discover that they could have been getting perhaps 50% more, then that's bad for their ego. So, they muddle along as best they can and are happy with the status quo, never getting any better. They simply adapt a monkey see, monkey do attitude and find all sorts of other excuses when one monkey gets more than the other!

Martin
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04/22/07, 02:52 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: la playa
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paquebot
You know what the pH of your soil is. If you did not, and had asked a question about how to make your onions sweeter, would lime have been the accepted answer? If you had then applied lime and had a negative affect on the overall health and harvest, would there be some claiming that you apparently did not apply enough lime and call for more? Probably! If a test showed that you definitely needed calcium in 7.4 pH soil, lime would not be the recommended solution.

It amazes me that there are so many gardeners who don't have a clue as to what they have. They won't spend a dime to have their soil tested but will spend many dollars to correct a phantom problem. By contrast, you're not going to find a single crop farmer who does not know his soil. Those who don't know and don't care are those who are happy with whatever harvest they get. If they were to suddenly discover that they could have been getting perhaps 50% more, then that's bad for their ego. So, they muddle along as best they can and are happy with the status quo, never getting any better. They simply adapt a monkey see, monkey do attitude and find all sorts of other excuses when one monkey gets more than the other!

Martin

I didn't notice an answer in your response to suburbanites question. Did you have an answer?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04/22/07, 03:01 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: la playa
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by suburbanite
Is the lime used with onions for pH adjustment or calcium enrichment?

My soil has a pH between 7 and 7.4; my city water tends to run slighly basic as well, and has a lot of dissolved minerals in it, including calcium. Dunno if the calcium is bioavailable though.
I cannot say for absolute sure, but I'd say it was to help both. Probably a bit more on the calcium enrichment side than for ph.

You know I've wondered the same thing about dissolved minerals in water In my current location our main problem is that along with lots of dissolved minerals we have a LOT of dissolved salt along with it. I'll be doing my best to use harvested rainwater. You might also look into that. Rainwater catchment is such a sensible thing that it surprises me more areas of the country don't do it. Hopefully someone that is more of a chemist will have an answer.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04/22/07, 03:11 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 14,800
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxGypsy
I didn't notice an answer in your response to suburbanites question. Did you have an answer?
I did answer it! I stated that lime would not be used to adjust pH of her soil which is already high at 7.4. Lime is used for pH adjustment of acidic soils, not alkaline. Were Suburbanite to have a test which indicates calcium deficiency combined with already high pH, that would call for a different source of calcium. For a simple garden, most convenient organic source would be bone meal.

Martin
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04/22/07, 03:43 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: South Central Wisconsin
Posts: 14,800

Texas A&M University experts were the ones who developed the famous supersweet 1015 Texas Grano onion. Here's a direct quote from them which explains why you may be creating one problem by attempting to correct something using the wrong method:

"If soil pH is high or alkaline, essential elements such as phosphorus and iron become unavailable for plant use even though they may be present in the soil."

Martin

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04/22/07, 03:51 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: N. Calif./was USDA 9b before global warming
Posts: 4,596

Thanks Martin. I've been using sluggo for snail deterrence so I suspect that my iron and phosphate levels are high enough to overcome the effect of my slightly basic (alkaline) soil.

I have used sulfur and peat as amendments before, to add acidity/decrease pH.

I think as a rule of thumb east of the Rockies you're acidic and west of the Rockies you're alkaline, where soil is concerned. Unless you're in a pine or fir forest, in which case you're acidic.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04/22/07, 05:06 PM
SquashNut's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,431

we're in the Rockies, The soil here is acid. The nursery owner here told me to look for things like moss in the lawn and slugs to indicate acid soil ph. She also told me to use some wood ashes and dolomite lime stone.
The older gardener behind me told me to use gypsum. Then i was told by the nursery owner I would wreck the soil with gypsum.
i just look at my plants they tell me what kind of soil I have. try to keep good records too. So I can rotate soil amendments and crops. It's working so far.

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04/22/07, 06:08 PM
suburbanite's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: N. Calif./was USDA 9b before global warming
Posts: 4,596

I have moss and slugs and a soil test kit which indicates that my soil is between pH 7 and 7.4

You can get a pH test kit that also covers nitrogen and phosphate for less than $10 at most hardware stores.

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 PM.