grape trellis...most productive layout

MELOC · #1 04/02/07, 02:46 PM

i am replanting some concord grapes. they used to be on an arbor. it has been removed and the huge trunks have been eliminated. i now have young, new growth to work with. i am building a fence trellis and moving away from the arbor method. i have a small scale fruit production guide from penn state (avaibable online now...hint hint) that gives good examples of trellising methods. i am trying to decide which system will be most productive.

i am planting posts and leaving 6 feet of post above ground. i am trying to decide if i want 4 cane kniffin, 6 cane kniffin or umbrella kniffin systems. i plan to allow 4 feet on either side of each plant for fruiting canes. i need to decide if i should install 2 wires or 3. would my production be increased by using the 6 cane system? the umbrella system looks a bit more complicated, but i have not ruled it out.

for those of you using any of these systems, what is your production experience and advice?

Steve L. · #2 04/02/07, 03:18 PM

I suggest you go with a high wire cordon / Hudson River umbrella. Both systems were designed with Concord production in mind, and are much easier to manage than the cane trained systems you mention. Where are you located?

MELOC · #3 04/02/07, 03:46 PM

i am in south central pa...near gettyburg.

KRH · #4 04/02/07, 08:32 PM

I agree with Steve L. Highwire cordon is the easiest/cheapest and most productive trellis for Concords.

Steve L. · #5 04/03/07, 08:18 AM

To answer your questions –

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

...i am trying to decide which system will be most productive.

i am planting posts and leaving 6 feet of post above ground. i am trying to decide if i want 4 cane kniffin, 6 cane kniffin or umbrella kniffin systems. i plan to allow 4 feet on either side of each plant for fruiting canes. i need to decide if i should install 2 wires or 3.

Both your trellis height and vine spacing are typical of grape plantings in the Eastern US. I personally prefer 3 wires for any of the above cane systems.

Quote:

would my production be increased by using the 6 cane system?

You’ll be able to retain more buds, but shading and poor air circulation will likely cause quality and disease problems.

Quote:

…the umbrella system looks a bit more complicated, but i have not ruled it out…

Umbrella is not any more complicated at all. Instead of tying your canes out flat on the support wire, you simply arch them over the highest wire and tie them to a lower one. Pruning is exactly the same for both systems.

MELOC · #6 04/03/07, 10:32 AM

thanks steve...

my thoughts are the same as yours concerning ventilation. i think i will stick with my plans to use two wires.

since i will have 2 sections of 16 feet for 4 vines, i guess i have the opportunity to try at least 2 pruning/training methods. i think i will try two methods for sure.

Steve L. · #7 04/03/07, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MELOC

thanks steve...

You're welcome. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I work in viticulture.

bbbuddy · #8 04/04/07, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve L.

You're welcome. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I work in viticulture.

Hi Steve, saw your post and have some questions!
The year we moved out here (zone6a, alt 5400'), I planted 8 grapevines bought at Hme Depot, because I thought grapes liked hot dry weather.
I added some compost mixed with the native sandy loam in the holes, and watered them every other day. They never grew much (I think the longest growth was about 12") and then in the winter the rabbits got to them, so I gave up.

We have high ph water and soil, could this be the problem? What can I do better the next time? (I caved yesterday and bought 4 vines from Walmart...) They are seedless table grapes.
Thanks much for any help