organic garden from scratch/no experience

[deanm]

I am going to be starting my first garden when I move to my Grandparent's old place in South Central IL (zone 6, I believe) around May 1. My Grandma used to garden the backyard extensively; but over the years most of it has been planted over with grass.

From what I remember from helping out there one day last spring, all that is left is one raised bed that has a small asparagus patch and was planted with tomatoes and zucchini last year. There also is a blackberry or raspberry patch further back on the property.

I want to do everything organic and am a big veggie eater; so would like to grow a wide variety of stuff. I'll have to till up all that grass that's been replanted. I have very little experience; though I did work for a veggie farmer(not organic) friend of my Dad's last season all the way from planting many, many flats of tomatoes by hand that got too big for the planter, to weeding, and picking (mostly cucumbers, squash, and green beans).

Anyway, is there a particular method you recommend for my situation? The Lasagna gardening method from the little I've read sounds interesting. I've written down a long list of books from browsing the forums here and definitely will get some of the general organic gardening books; but I don't have alot of time (or money for that matter) to sort through a bunch of different method books.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[cssc]

Gosh, it would be easier if you could mulch the grass to kill it before you till or whatever.
If it was me I would plant the existing bed with my summer veggies while the grass dies, & then plant fall crops in the new area later. You could do some stuff in containers, too.
Actually I dont' know how long it takes the roots to start rotting. Maybe someone else knows. I know lawn grass will die in 2 weeks.
I've got a bed that hasn't been used in 7 yrs full of lawn sod & crab grass & it's so hard to dig, I'm just gonna pull the black plastic mulch over it & plant my zucchini there in 6 weeks. I figure anything left will get shaded out, or at least good enough for now.

[strider3700]

Lots of time before may first to start. I'd cover the areas that will be your new beds with black plastic and leave it there to bake in the sun until you're ready to plant. This should kill the grass preheat the soil and if it gets hot enough kill a lot of the seeds already in the ground. Then when you're ready to go you either till or turn the soil and plant if it's in good shape. check your planting dates for your region. If you're starting from seed somethings should already be started most likely. If you're going to buy plants it can get a little difficult picking out which ones are actually organic.

[deanm]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by strider3700

Lots of time before may first to start. I'd cover the areas that will be your new beds with black plastic and leave it there to bake in the sun until you're ready to plant. This should kill the grass preheat the soil and if it gets hot enough kill a lot of the seeds already in the ground. Then when you're ready to go you either till or turn the soil and plant if it's in good shape.

ok. thanks.

check your planting dates for your region. If you're starting from seed somethings should already be started most likely. If you're going to buy plants it can get a little difficult picking out which ones are actually organic.

hmmm..well, the small raised bed that is existing has not been gardened organically, so I would be ok with buying plants, since there isn't enough time to start seeds (didn't think of that, this has all happened pretty fast.)
Any of the rest of the yard that I convert back to garden, I would like to start and keep organic.

One of the main things I am interested in growing is a variety of greens. But, the vegetable farmer I worked for last year did not grow any greens (other than cabbage) and my Dad never did in his gardens while I was growing up; so, I know even less about growing them than I do about traditional things like tomatoes, zucchini, and bell peppers.

Are there any greens that it would be not too late to start from seed with May 1st or perhaps a week or two before? (I have no room to do anything like that where I am now and the soonest I will be able to get anything going down there would be mid to late April.)

[Jennifer Brewer]

i have grown lettuces in semishade with some success. I think it depends more on how hot the summers are in your area.

[SquashNut]

Chard can be started all summer long. I have had it come up in july, even though it is said to be a cool weather crop. It straight seeds well and is very productive if you use the cut and come again method. Mizuna or mibuna are aisian greens that can be cut and come again also. i am sure turnip greens would be OK also.
You'll want to wait on the spinich and raddishes till this fall.
For peppers, egg plants and tomatoes you'll need starts, but cucumbers, corn and squash could still be straight seeded. for onions use either sets or plants.
You'll have plenty of options really. I am not sure about cabbage , leaf lettuce and broccolli, ask when you get your tomato plant.

[deanm]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by SquashNut

Chard can be started all summer long. I have had it come up in july, even though it is said to be a cool weather crop. It straight seeds well and is very productive if you use the cut and come again method.

ok. I'll give chard a try. I might also try some collard starts in the existing raised bed if I can find any and there is room.

Mizuna or mibuna are aisian greens that can be cut and come again also.

I definitely was thinking of planting some pak choi for the fall. Haven't heard of these will have to look into them.

What kind of squash are you nuts about? I absolutely love spaghetti squash and want to plant a large section of it to keep in the basement and/or cook and freeze. I'm not much of a fan of acorn and butternut.

I do like zucchini and yellow-neck pretty well. I'd especially like to get a dehydrator and try making chips out of them. I'm trying to get grain out of my diet and was thinking they would be good for dipping in hummus instead of crackers or crispbread.

[SquashNut]

collards would be OK from seed, too.
Just about any squash winter or summer would be Ok. For winter one called Sweet Meat is very good and for us productive. It's open pollinated too, if your interested in that.
I think the dryed summer squash would be good if you could get some spices to stick to them, but otherwise they may be bland.
Pac choi is a good fall crop. I cann't get it to work here in the sprig goes to seed easy.

[Callieslamb]

How large of an area are you thinking of growing this year? What kind of grass will you be trying to get rid of?

I think in your climate you still have time to do all that you want to do. what kind of greens are you thinking? Lettuces? Greens to southerners means turnip and mustard greens. We grow those in the late summer/ fall and into the winter. Spinach and lettuce and beets can be grown in both the spring and the fall. You might not get your grass removed before the season warms up too much for lettuce this year. But who knows?

If you have a large area, the best way to get rid of the grass is to till it under with a BIG tiller. Then in a couple of weeks, so back and till it again. If you have a smaller area - you can use black plastic or boards, or cardboard to kill or weaken the grass. I would certainly plan on mulching to finish off the grass that wasn't totally discouraged.

Are you going to make a garden with rows or with beds? That makes a difference too. For beds - you just need to concern yourself with the area you will put the beds in - kill the grass off between the beds later if you want. ( I highly recommend it). If you are doing rows, then you will need to kill the grass over the entire area.

There are many, many people on this board that can help you - just get some of those decisions made. It is mostly what you prefer and if you dont' know what you prefer - then just choose.

I highly recommend Dick Raymond's book, "The Joy of Gardening." Or the old Victory Garden series. You can also get a ton of information from your extension service as to how and what varieties grow best in your area etc.

Good luck!

[deanm]

well...here's what I want to do/grow.

What I want to grow the most of:

broccoli, brussel sprouts, spaghetti squash, and a wide variety of greens (such as collards, mustards, kale, chard, pak choi, rapini, purslane, baby spinach and maybe another salad green or two)


What else I want to do this year:

tomatoes, bell, jalapeno, and maybe chili peppers, summer squash, carrots, cantaloupe, some herbs like basil, dill, parsley, etc., cabbage

What I'd like to do at some point:
onions, leeks, shallots, garlic

What I'd like to do in the fall:

get a hoophouse to cover the fall greens to extend the season and start the next one sooner, for summer veggies as well for next year and plant some dwarf fruit trees(cherries, peaches, figs)

What I'd like to do next spring:

expand the blackberry patch already there to include blueberries, strawberries, and raspberries

As far as how much to plant and where and how. I have no idea. What I do know is that I have a very limited budget and am very lacking in mechanical aptitude. So I don't have money to buy or the ability to build a bunch of beds. I also don't really have the money to buy a whole bunch of mulch. I do have free access to a bunch of horse manure and a pretty big yard to get grass clippings from. I also have alot of free time.

[Mutti]

Raised beds are easy to make...ours are 3'x16'--just 2x6's screwed together...if I can do it anyone can. The dirt from the garden was forked into the boxes and the paths between covered with flattened boxes from work and then free wood chips we got from the power co. We amended the boxes with rotted cow/horse/llahma manure and rotted sawdust. If you have an old garden spot you could be in luck with improved soil there or it could be like this old farm...the so-called garden plot is still yielding old pottery,broken bottles,cans...think they burned their trash on it. I might be inclined to dig a couple of test holes in your proposed garden area and see what soil you do have--knowing that any soil can be improved; even the rocky soil here in so. MO. My advice is to not bite off more than you can chew the first year....a small garden well tended will always yield more than a big weed patch....and it is much more satisfying to work in something you can keep up. DEE

[SquashNut]

Do a search for passive wide bed gardening.
Basically what it is, is you till the garden,(can be done by hand if you have to and have a good back.
Mark off the beds, 3 to 4 foot across and as long as you want, leaving pathes inbetween. Take the soil from the pathes and put on top of the bed. They require no wood or brick. I put my compost only in the beds, The pathes get 2 or so layers of cardboard with straw, leaves, or grass clipping to keep grass from growing in them. You don't walk on the beds, so you need to be sure you can reach the middle.
My garden has some rocks in it I throw those into a path between my neighbors and my garden, the slugs don't like crawling on them.

[deanm]

Originally Posted by SquashNut

Do a search for passive wide bed gardening.
Basically what it is, is you till the garden,(can be done by hand if you have to and have a good back.
Mark off the beds, 3 to 4 foot across and as long as you want, leaving pathes inbetween. Take the soil from the pathes and put on top of the bed. They require no wood or brick. I put my compost only in the beds, The pathes get 2 or so layers of cardboard with straw, leaves, or grass clipping to keep grass from growing in them. You don't walk on the beds, so you need to be sure you can reach the middle.
My garden has some rocks in it I throw those into a path between my neighbors and my garden, the slugs don't like crawling on them.

Sounds interesting and doable. Thanks for the idea. So I guess the preference for bed over row gardening is that you don't have as much actual garden space to mulch and/or weed? Are there other advantages? Are you able to plant more in a given area of bed compared to using rows?

[SquashNut]

depending on the fertility of your soil, yes you can plant more. It is planted simalar to square foot gardening.
I have 4 foot wide beds that have 7 rows of beets in them this year. Last year I planted 7 rows of onions in one with great results. This year is the 5th year of gardening here. The first couple of years I planted 5 rows in each bed. I don't think I'll plant any more intesively than the 7 rows though.
I also do alot of succesion and relay planting.
For instance i planted beets in 7 rows long ways in a 24 foot bed, then I'll harvest and thin them, leaving circles that will allow me to put in some summer squash seeds or transplants. I'll just keep harvesting the beets as the summer squash takes over the bed. From this I'll get lots of beet greens, baby beets and some larger beets for canning as well as the summer squash. After the summer squash is done the bed will be planted in either lettuce, spinich or garlic for the winter.
the beets could also be spinich,onions or other greens and the summer squash could be any vining crops, such as cucumbers or winter squash. All my beds are planted this way to get the most out of our short growing season.

[deanm]

Thanks everyone for your help.

How difficult is it to find organic seeds? Any good sources for ordering organic seeds for the types of greens I want to grow, also for brussel sprouts, brocolli, spaghetti squash, baby carrots?

If I"m going to need to order organic seeds for spring greens (mustards, collards, chard, maybe arugula), I guess I need to do it very soon. Or, am I likely to find organic seeds of these sorts in local nurseries of a town of about 12,000.

I'll have to make due with tomato and pepper starts (organic or not) this year. Maybe some broccoli if I can find it.

But whatever I am able to start from seed, I want organic.

[Callieslamb]

Sorry I had to do some work!
Has anyone thought about just killing the grass by over fertilizing it? Would that work?

Here is what I have done. I didn't mention it because I thought it would only work with bermuda grass.

We rent a sod cutter. We cut down about 2 inches. We usually roll the sod up as far as we can until it breaks and then we pile the rolls in a large pile; water well; cover the pile with black plastic. I found that piles no taller than 4 feet work best. You leave the plastic on for several weeks. Meanwhile - you can till and plant your garden. After the sod has decomposed, you have great soil to add to your garden beds. You can cut the sod into lengths but for me it has just been easier to roll it up. If you were to cut it, I would turn it upside down in the pile.

This is a lot of work. But it works, you don't need chemicals and you make some great compost for your garden the first year!

Sounds like you are going to have a great garden going. Lots of stuff to grow!
good luck!

[cssc]

I tried killing grass in a riding area with the horses urine soaked shavings. Most of the grass died; took a long time & a lot of urine to do a 6 foot circle.

What I want to grow the most of:

broccoli, brussel sprouts, spaghetti squash, and a wide variety of greens (such as collards, mustards, kale, chard, pak choi, rapini, purslane, baby spinach and maybe another salad green or two)


What else I want to do this year:

tomatoes, bell, jalapeno, and maybe chili peppers, summer squash, carrots, cantaloupe, some herbs like basil, dill, parsley, etc., cabbage

If you can get that other area clear you can grow the kale, pak choi, mustard , spinach as fall crops. If you need room in the existing bed for other things like carrots & summer squash, you cold grow the tomatoes & peppers in 5 gallon pails. Basil also does well in a container. You could actually plant it with your tomatoes. If you palnt parsley now it'll be while before you get any- but put the seeds in the freezer for a week first. They'll germinate faster.
joy of Gardening is excellent. It will explain wide rows & also has an excellent section for weed management. See if your library has it.

[deanm]

Originally Posted by Callieslamb

Sorry I had to do some work!
Has anyone thought about just killing the grass by over fertilizing it? Would that work?

Here is what I have done. I didn't mention it because I thought it would only work with bermuda grass.

We rent a sod cutter. We cut down about 2 inches. We usually roll the sod up as far as we can until it breaks and then we pile the rolls in a large pile; water well; cover the pile with black plastic. I found that piles no taller than 4 feet work best. You leave the plastic on for several weeks. Meanwhile - you can till and plant your garden. After the sod has decomposed, you have great soil to add to your garden beds. You can cut the sod into lengths but for me it has just been easier to roll it up. If you were to cut it, I would turn it upside down in the pile.

This is a lot of work. But it works, you don't need chemicals and you make some great compost for your garden the first year!

Sounds like you are going to have a great garden going. Lots of stuff to grow!
good luck!

Hmmm. I really like this idea. How long does it take to make the rolled up sod into compost? I have access to plenty of horse manure from my uncle, what if I added that to the sod and covered it? I guess that would get me some compost even sooner, maybe even in time for planting the fall greens?

How difficult is a sod cutter to use? Thanks for the idea.

[wiggles12]

Did you ever think gardening would be this darn difficult? Some spinach can be grown and could be seeded now. If you are worried about freezes, then you can take a few bales of hay and put a window on top of the hay and create a cold box (specific instructions are in this month's Mother Earth News Magazine).

You can start all your seeds inside right now. Your tomatoes, peppers, etc.

Good luck! Remember it's suppose to be fun.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

2 ideas

1 blackplacstic mow it close then lay out the plastic just cut holes where you want plants this will do for most of your transpants especily tomatoes

2. this is what i have done with 2 gardens now , till shallow rake up the grass clumps
and compost them then till and amend and till and amend all the compost you can get your hands on and old manure maybe a few bales of peat moss.

as for organic i think i gets a bit to much BUZZ
if you get an heirloom seed and plant it wether it was certiied organic or not and use no chemical fertilizers ,herbisides or pestisides on it how is that bad i am natural but not nesacerily organic